Official USMB Bible Poll

[Shogun]

well. this WAS turning into an interesting thread.


Thanks, Lance Bass.

 

[KittenKoder]

well. this WAS turning into an interesting thread.


Thanks, Lance Bass.

It was, even I was interested in the discussion and I don't believe in the christian bible at all.

 

[jillian]

well. this WAS turning into an interesting thread.


Thanks, Lance Bass.

I got rid of the uninteresting stuff...

it's here... http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/59063-charlie-bass-trolling-the-bible-thread.html

now back to our regularly scheduled discussion

 

[ABikerSailor]

With that possibility you are admitting that any other religion may be more accurate, so it's a nice thought. i like it.

No, not more accurate, AS accurate as Hebrew. Matter of fact, when I was younger and living with mentally deficient Christians like Chucking Ass, I turned my back on Christianity. When I joined the Navy, I started to look for a spiritually based philosophy that worked for me, and I found Tao.

Now.....an interesting thing about Tao. LOTS of the concepts that are in Tao, also appear in Judaism. Not only that, but Taoists refer to their teachers as "sages". So does Judaism. I ended up coming back to investigate Christianity after I was well versed in Taoist philosophy, and was finally able to unravel a lot of the lies that are there. That in turn led to me studying Judaism.

By the way Charlie ClownAss, tell me exactly where I referred to myself as a gay person. You can't. I'm hetero, have 3 boys, and am divorced with several ladies that I like to hang out with.

You on the other hand, sound like a very bitter, very small, very angry little man.

 

[Shogun]

It was, even I was interested in the discussion and I don't believe in the christian bible at all.

indeed. I'm a RAGING roman Lion with these people but the subject of jebus from both a christian and jewish perspective is a lot more interesting than our local Lance Bass telling us how he wants it THAT way.

I think the bible is fictional in the same way that Washington's cherry tree is a fictional story meant to deify human beings into standing for something greater. I have not read it yet but another user, Stearpike, suggested the following book and you might enjoy it too.

Behold the Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[KittenKoder]

No, not more accurate, AS accurate as Hebrew. Matter of fact, when I was younger and living with mentally deficient Christians like Chucking Ass, I turned my back on Christianity. When I joined the Navy, I started to look for a spiritually based philosophy that worked for me, and I found Tao.

Now.....an interesting thing about Tao. LOTS of the concepts that are in Tao, also appear in Judaism. Not only that, but Taoists refer to their teachers as "sages". So does Judaism. I ended up coming back to investigate Christianity after I was well versed in Taoist philosophy, and was finally able to unravel a lot of the lies that are there. That in turn led to me studying Judaism.

By the way Charlie ClownAss, tell me exactly where I referred to myself as a gay person. You can't. I'm hetero, have 3 boys, and am divorced with several ladies that I like to hang out with.

You on the other hand, sound like a very bitter, very small, very angry little man.

Granted 'as accurate'. Taoism is nice. I prefer ancient Egyptian myth, my focus on theology (thus how I know about the Imhotep link).

To your very last sentence .... SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Do NOT summon that demon! I beg of you!

To Jillian: Thanks.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Not sure about Egyptian mythology, there are quite a few things in there that make about as much sense as some Christians' version of the Bible. They did have pretty good science though.

BTW, the way that I ended up becoming a Christian Taoist with Jewish understanding (that's kinda what I call myself when asked my religion), was because a friend of mine looked at me and told me that I appeared to hate God. I told him about lots of experiences that I'd had (most not good). He then told me something that changed my life when he said "instead of looking at all the differences of the various religions, why not look for the similarities".

Been doing it ever since. Personally? I believe that God talks to us in a voice and language that WE PERSONALLY understand, and, just like not everyone on the planet speaks the same language, God talks to us in a lot of different ways.

People like the poster who shall not be named are the stupid ones, because as the Dali Lama once said, "all paths lead to the top of the mountain", meaning, that all religions have similarities that will eventually lead a person to God.

 

[KittenKoder]

Not sure about Egyptian mythology, there are quite a few things in there that make about as much sense as some Christians' version of the Bible. They did have pretty good science though.

BTW, the way that I ended up becoming a Christian Taoist with Jewish understanding (that's kinda what I call myself when asked my religion), was because a friend of mine looked at me and told me that I appeared to hate God. I told him about lots of experiences that I'd had (most not good). He then told me something that changed my life when he said "instead of looking at all the differences of the various religions, why not look for the similarities".

Been doing it ever since. Personally? I believe that God talks to us in a voice and language that WE PERSONALLY understand, and, just like not everyone on the planet speaks the same language, God talks to us in a lot of different ways.

People like the poster who shall not be named are the stupid ones, because as the Dali Lama once said, "all paths lead to the top of the mountain", meaning, that all religions have similarities that will eventually lead a person to God.

Well, that's the beauty of Egyptian mythology though, it grew and changed with science. They were just wiped out too soon to have become more modern, so a lot of their beliefs were still infantile like the christian ones. The Imhotep was the best example (damn I feel like a broken record today), he had introduced even brain surgery back then, save a LOT of lives and figured out how to make better medicines with the herbs. So when he died the Egyptians added him to their mythology as well so he would be remembered. The Rx symbol is actually a modified version of the Eye symbol he used on all his 'signatures'. It changed a lot before becoming the Rx but that is where it all started.

One thing the Egyptians prevented was the forming of a 'one true religion'. There was a sect of Riah that was going to exclude and even had goals to stop all other religious ideals, the government sent in troops and told them to stop, when they didn't they wiped out the whole city of that sect to ensure that no one religious ideals would put their balance in jeopardy.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You really ought to check out the Universal Torah Network and Sam Peak's programs "Mysteries of the Creation".

Lots of good solid science in there. Not only that, but check out what Rabbi Greenbaum has to say about the supercollider.

Most of the Hebrew faith is very well grounded in science. But then again, Albert Einstein told us, "Science without theology is blind, and theology without science is crippled".

I personally think that science (guided by theology) is a direct pathway to figuring out how God does most things. But, just like any good Father, He's not gonna show us everything, because hey, surprises are nice.

 

[KittenKoder]

You really ought to check out the Universal Torah Network and Sam Peak's programs "Mysteries of the Creation".

Lots of good solid science in there. Not only that, but check out what Rabbi Greenbaum has to say about the supercollider.

Most of the Hebrew faith is very well grounded in science. But then again, Albert Einstein told us, "Science without theology is blind, and theology without science is crippled".

I personally think that science (guided by theology) is a direct pathway to figuring out how God does most things. But, just like any good Father, He's not gonna show us everything, because hey, surprises are nice.

Mayhaps one day I will. The opening of my gaming network is close at hand though and I need to study up on the Witchcraft RPG so I can open with a bang. Really I should be working on that right now ... but my brain hurts when I get too deep into serious stuff like that without changing gears once in awhile.

 

[jillian]

It doesn't say that in the OT, the OT just says that He will come.

The return is referred to in the NT, because that is the book that covers His life.

And....if you don't believe in resurrection, then you aren't getting the full impact of the story. G-d HAD to resurrect Yeshua, because His mission hadn't been completed yet, as Rome and the Hebrew upper leadership united to crucify Him.

By the way.....here's an interesting thought on the Second Coming......

When Yeshua was talking to His disciples before He took off, He'd told them "I hope that you do it better and faster than I", meaning spreading the Word of God.

Now.....here's an interesting "what if".......

What if the Second Coming is someone who studies long enough to make the connections correctly, and then starts passing it to others, to unravel all the bullshit that various people had inserted into His teachings?

Maybe that is how G-d is going to do it.

That's certainly an interesting concept... which might explain why the lubovitch chasids thought Rabbi Schneerson was the messiah.

I'm afraid I take the NT with a grain of salt. I think it was so eviscerated by Constantine that we don't know what was said. I think, probably, the Dead Sea Scrolls offer more insight into that period of time.

We can both agree that there were political reasons for the crucifixion. Certainly a radical who said that the San Hedrin got it wrong, would not have been very popular on the Temple Mount.

As for the gospels... I thiknk a lot of it was PR.. The apostles BELIEVED... much as some of the people on this board BELIEVE (in capital letters). I think their belief that the messiah had come was no different than the belief of some that the bible is to be taken literally... and that the NT is inerrant because it SAYS it is inerrant.

I believe that Jesus (or Yeshua ben Yosef... ) died being crucified for his politics. But those politics never would have been .. never should have been.. used as a means of destroying judaism since that wasn't his intent. Nor did Christians "perfect" Judaism as Annie Coultergeist says. I think a lot of that came from Constantine's need to suppress and gather his people.

So.. yes, I believe he died. I believe the two mary's attended his body at the Holy Sepulcre... (something Magdalene never would have been allowed to do under Jewish law were she not his wife).. But I'm afraid I don't believe he was resurrected.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, you know, that was one of the things that Jesus was supposed to take care of. The SanHedrin had started to corrupt the teachings of HaShem, and Jesus was supposed to correct it. Another interesting thing, is that the SanHedrin wouldn't allow Him an audience with them, so, Jesus told Judas to turn Him in so that He could come face to face with the High Priest.

Yep, you're right to take the NT with a grain of salt by the way, the Niecene council kinda saw to it that it was hopelessly mixed up with a bunch of b.s.

And....because of some of the things that I've seen in the world, I kinda believe that God brought Jesus up from the dead. Matter of fact, Jesus did it TWICE. Once when He was around 11 and one of His friends was killed in an accident. Jesus brought His friend back so that he could tell everyone that Jesus didn't kill him, and then there was Lazarus. If Jesus (Son of God) could do it, then God could also. Article of faith, I know, but it works for me.

Matter of fact, there have been some pretty strange things happen in modern times. CNN ran a story a few years back of a dude that died, was pronounced, PUT INTO A MORGUE DRAWER for 6 hours, and then found to be alive again.

 

[jillian]

Well, you know, that was one of the things that Jesus was supposed to take care of. The SanHedrin had started to corrupt the teachings of HaShem, and Jesus was supposed to correct it. Another interesting thing, is that the SanHedrin wouldn't allow Him an audience with them, so, Jesus told Judas to turn Him in so that He could come face to face with the High Priest.

Yep, you're right to take the NT with a grain of salt by the way, the Niecene council kinda saw to it that it was hopelessly mixed up with a bunch of b.s.

And....because of some of the things that I've seen in the world, I kinda believe that God brought Jesus up from the dead. Matter of fact, Jesus did it TWICE. Once when He was around 11 and one of His friends was killed in an accident. Jesus brought His friend back so that he could tell everyone that Jesus didn't kill him, and then there was Lazarus. If Jesus (Son of God) could do it, then God could also. Article of faith, I know, but it works for me.

Matter of fact, there have been some pretty strange things happen in modern times. CNN ran a story a few years back of a dude that died, was pronounced, PUT INTO A MORGUE DRAWER for 6 hours, and then found to be alive again.

you know, it's really intersting.. I was in Israel in March. And we went to the Temple. It seems they've found a lot of evidence that the Priests separated themselves from their congregants... including private mikva's they used and tunnels that went directly to the Temple so they wouldn't have to mix with people. I could see where that stuff would really have ticked G-d off.

Jesus never said he was the son of G-d... He said he was the son of man. That didn't necessarily mean the messiah.

Where did you hear the story about the 11 year old jesus? I've never heard that... and I'd like to look into it.

As for Lazarus.... dunno. It may have happened. May not have. Might have been an urban legend without snopes to clear it up. But the crucifixion? There are some who claim he really didn't die, but was given some type of herb that made it seem as if he were dead. I think the guy in the morgue had such low metabolic activity that he appeared dead... which isn't the same as being dead. And, assuming Jesus didn't die.. then I'm figuring something similiar for him. I just don't think he was messiah. I think he was a holy man.... a great rabbi.

And to go back to something you said before about Jesus being of the line of David. He might have been. But they also say he was born on December 25th. We know that wasn't the case. So who knows? I'm kind of a skeptic on these issues.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Israel is a nice place. Was able to make it to Haifa, but, unfortunately, didn't get to go to Jerusalem.

Where is the story? Either (a) watch The History Channel, and look for a program called "Banned from the Bible". The young Jesus raising his friend from the dead is in the book of Thomas (I think it may be the Gnostic text).

And, no, Jesus DID say He was the Son of God. That was one of the things that pissed off the priests. Another interesting thing is the Jewish view of the soul (the yetzer hartov), because one thing that Jesus said was that "the Kingdom of God is within", which was a direct reference to God, because your soul is a small piece of HaShem that He carved out from under His throne with the blade of self-will.

As far as the December 25th thing? Nope, that is a purely Catholic invention that was created to include the summer Solstice (Easter), and the winter solstice (Christmas). They were trying to include the pagans into their new religion, because, if you can get them to believe via religion, they're easier to control.

Nope.....either I believe all of it, or I believe none.

 

[KittenKoder]

On a funny side note about us pagans, the Catholics thought (and some still do) we were fooled. Have you ever looked at their art, specifically the paintings of the saints. There are pagan marking hidden in them, clear if you look for them. You could say we tried to take them over from the inside but then just grew bored and left.

 

[ABikerSailor]

On a funny side note about us pagans, the Catholics thought (and some still do) we were fooled. Have you ever looked at their art, specifically the paintings of the saints. There are pagan marking hidden in them, clear if you look for them. You could say we tried to take them over from the inside but then just grew bored and left.

You know, there are some pagan religions that actually acknowledge God and who He is, and they don't go to church. I really find it sad that the human race has been sold a bill of goods that says we can't get in touch with God unless we go through a church.

And.....another interesting thing about Catholics. They believe witchcraft is bad, and that if you can talk to animals, you're a witch. However.....the question is.....why do they hold St. Francis of Assissi in such high regard? He spoke to animals, and they spoke back to him!

Nope.....there's a LOT of stuff in Christian religions as well as Catholic religion that is a bunch of lies told to us by those that wish to remain in power.

I like pagans by the way!

 

[KittenKoder]

You know, there are some pagan religions that actually acknowledge God and who He is, and they don't go to church. I really find it sad that the human race has been sold a bill of goods that says we can't get in touch with God unless we go through a church.

And.....another interesting thing about Catholics. They believe witchcraft is bad, and that if you can talk to animals, you're a witch. However.....the question is.....why do they hold St. Francis of Assissi in such high regard? He spoke to animals, and they spoke back to him!

Nope.....there's a LOT of stuff in Christian religions as well as Catholic religion that is a bunch of lies told to us by those that wish to remain in power.

I like pagans by the way!

Thanks. Oh, and the thing about the word pagan, oddly, it applies to anyone who doesn't 'go to church'. Even though I respectfully call good christians by their chosen name, in reality, they are not different from the rest of us pagans. Pagan is a generic label for anyone who does not follow a specific group regardless of their religious beliefs. It's no wonder why you get along with us. There are small groups that share common beliefs, like the wicce/wiccan or the celts, druids, etc. But we are all pagan because we refuse to let someone else tell us how to believe and yet also do not mind others believing what they want. The live and let live policy.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, the Druids, Celts, and all the others you named, well...I'm sort of the mind that those religions are using nature as a way to connect with God. The only difference between magic and miracles, is who are you trying to benefit with it? If it is for yourself alone (selfish), then it's actually black magic. If you're using it to benefit everyone else? Then it's a miracle.

You know.....if Yeshua (Jesus) had shown up in America (Salem on forward), He would have also been burned at the stake, even though, He's the founder of the religion.

Satanists on the other hand......

 

[KittenKoder]

You know, the Druids, Celts, and all the others you named, well...I'm sort of the mind that those religions are using nature as a way to connect with God. The only difference between magic and miracles, is who are you trying to benefit with it? If it is for yourself alone (selfish), then it's actually black magic. If you're using it to benefit everyone else? Then it's a miracle.

You know.....if Yeshua (Jesus) had shown up in America (Salem on forward), He would have also been burned at the stake, even though, He's the founder of the religion.

Satanists on the other hand......

The ones that focus on nature are 'heathen' or 'of the hearth'. The words meaning was changed so the xtians who keep rewriting their crap can justify their hatred of them. Then they had to mistranslate more of their book in order to trick other christians into hating them. In reality, pagan are all those who are not following an organized church, heathen are those who focus on the natural aspects of the world, spiritualists are those who look within. It's interesting, while growing up I thought they meant what I was taught by my 'church', then I found the real meanings in a real dictionary. That was what made me turn on the churches. After that I started to see all their lies for what they were. It was scary, how much they lied ... ooops. Oh well, now it's out there, I grew up in a strict xtian household, my mother was the dominator there. Eventually my father grew tired of her lying to us and treating like shit for questioning the beliefs that he divorced her.

 

[KittenKoder]

Oh, now I am a Technomancer, god IS science, and science IS god. Whether intelligent or not, that is something we'll find out when we die. However, to fill in blanks I turn to Egyptian myth until science offers a better answer. *evil grin* Thus why I am so factually focused now.