Official USMB Bible Poll

[ABikerSailor]

Not really, Kitten. There were lots of people PRETENDING to be Yeshua, but there was only one. Matter of fact, they recently discovered (while digging over in the ME to expand a prison), a church, which had a coin in it that had Yeshua's name AND picture on it.

Think of it like today.....there are LOTS AND LOTS of people that are claiming to be the Second Coming of Christ, but.....there's one small problem with that........

Yeshua didn't die, so why in the hell would He need to be born again?

 

[jillian]

That's the same thing as saying 'Rome existed so it must be truth'. Just by using the names of those who were in existance does not make it fact. Lovecraft wrote about a Mad Arab, Abzul, who DID exist, does that mean Cthulhu is real as well and that the mad god will rise and devour all our souls? Same logic different myth.

Actually, we were asked what we believe. I answered. But I'd say Biker said it quite well. I also think kabbalah has it closer to being correct than any belief I've seen.

As for Yeshua Ben Yosef (Jesus)... I think there was an essene rabbi... but he certainly didn't preach that there was a new covenent and that people should abandon judaism. I believe he was probably a healer, because at that time, particulary among the essenes, healers were not uncommon.

What I don't believe is that he was the messiah because there are too many things that were supposed to happen AFTER the coming of the messiah that still haven't.

 

[KittenKoder]

Not really, Kitten. There were lots of people PRETENDING to be Yeshua, but there was only one. Matter of fact, they recently discovered (while digging over in the ME to expand a prison), a church, which had a coin in it that had Yeshua's name AND picture on it.

Think of it like today.....there are LOTS AND LOTS of people that are claiming to be the Second Coming of Christ, but.....there's one small problem with that........

Yeshua didn't die, so why in the hell would He need to be born again?

Um ... look into the history of that time when you get a change, the name was like John is today, a very common one. While only one may have been the one certain people followed (not dissing the Jewish faith but I like facts and science more) there were many at the time and more than a few of them were 'preaching'.

 

[KittenKoder]

Actually, we were asked what we believe. I answered. But I'd say Biker said it quite well. I also think kabbalah has it closer to being correct than any belief I've seen.

As for Yeshua Ben Yosef (Jesus)... I think there was an essene rabbi... but he certainly didn't preach that there was a new covenent and that people should abandon judaism. I believe he was probably a healer, because at that time, particulary among the essenes, healers were not uncommon.

What I don't believe is that he was the messiah because there are too many things that were supposed to happen AFTER the coming of the messiah that still haven't.

That is a good belief, just don't expect others to believe it as well and we'll get along fine. The fact that you give a more specific name does make it more believable even to one like me (a HUGE skeptic of even my own beliefs), so kudos on that.

 

[plt42]

You said it rather well Silence.

I believe the Bible as it was ORIGINALLY WRITTEN is fact. The Greek, Latin and English translation have twisted it around from the original Hebrew to suit their own needs.

My vote is that it is a work of historical fiction.

BTW... the original work was in Greek... later translated in the Hebrew as well as other languages of the time.

 

[jillian]

That is a good belief, just don't expect others to believe it as well and we'll get along fine. The fact that you give a more specific name does make it more believable even to one like me (a HUGE skeptic of even my own beliefs), so kudos on that.

Honest? Couldn't care less what other people believe. So long as their beliefs (or non-beliefs) hurt no one else, they can hang with me anytime.

 

[jillian]

My vote is that it is a work of historical fiction.

BTW... the original work was in Greek... later translated in the Hebrew as well as other languages of the time.

No...the Bible wasn't in Greek.

 

[KittenKoder]

My vote is that it is a work of historical fiction.

BTW... the original work was in Greek... later translated in the Hebrew as well as other languages of the time.

It was Hebrew, but it was formed (based on some historical evidence) as a collection of many other religious myths from various parts of the area, except the OT, which was focused on the Hebrew beliefs at the time only. The NT was mostly taken from the Greek myths, and the whole ascent to heaven by the savior was taken almost directly from Imhoteps rise to godhood from Egypt (for those unfamiliar, Imhotep was the great healer at that time who revolutionised medicine so much that even today we use his mark to represent medicine).

 

[ABikerSailor]

My vote is that it is a work of historical fiction.

BTW... the original work was in Greek... later translated in the Hebrew as well as other languages of the time.

NT yes, OT no.

 

[KittenKoder]

Oh, we should add that the original OT was Hebrew, not this newly edited crap the christians pass off these days.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Actually, we were asked what we believe. I answered. But I'd say Biker said it quite well. I also think kabbalah has it closer to being correct than any belief I've seen.

As for Yeshua Ben Yosef (Jesus)... I think there was an essene rabbi... but he certainly didn't preach that there was a new covenent and that people should abandon judaism. I believe he was probably a healer, because at that time, particulary among the essenes, healers were not uncommon.

What I don't believe is that he was the messiah because there are too many things that were supposed to happen AFTER the coming of the messiah that still haven't.

Yeshua never preached that there was a "new covenant", although, there are MANY Christians that say He came to replace Judaism. Unfortunately, they didn't bother to read the red words in the Bible, because Yeshua actually said "I didn't come to replace the law, but rather to expand upon it.".

As far as not being the messiah? Well.....He would have been, but, unfortunately, Rome and the Hebrew leadership crucified Him before He could get all the things done that God had sent Him here to do.

 

[Anguille]

I thought parts of the Ot were written in Aramaic as well as Hebrew.

 

[KittenKoder]

I thought parts of the Ot were written in Aramaic as well as Hebrew.

I believe I saw something about that to. But the version the christians base their beliefs on was the one completely written in Hebrew. You have to remember (or note) that the Jewish faith is more fluid than others, capable of learning and growing as it's people do. Which is why I will always respect them more than any other organized religion. So they do change their myths occasionally to keep them 'up-to-date'. The difference is that they also accept everyone else for who they are and not judge them based on belief, a very rare thing for organized religions to do.

 

[jillian]

Yeshua never preached that there was a "new covenant", although, there are MANY Christians that say He came to replace Judaism. Unfortunately, they didn't bother to read the red words in the Bible, because Yeshua actually said "I didn't come to replace the law, but rather to expand upon it.".

As far as not being the messiah? Well.....He would have been, but, unfortunately, Rome and the Hebrew leadership crucified Him before He could get all the things done that God had sent Him here to do.

I agree that he spoke about the expansion of the law, not replacement of it.
What I was taught the messiah will be is a messianic king of the line of David who will bring 1,000 years of peace. I don't believe, if the messiah had already come, that G-d would have let him die before finishing his work.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Is the Bible fact or fiction?

Its the truth, thats what the Bible is.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I agree that he spoke about the expansion of the law, not replacement of it.
What I was taught the messiah will be is a messianic king of the line of David who will bring 1,000 years of peace. I don't believe, if the messiah had already come, that G-d would have let him die before finishing his work.

Well, according to the story, Yeshua IS a descendant of the line of David.

As far as the 1,000 years of peace? That is when He returns.

As far as G-d not letting Yeshua die? Well.....what to you think the resurrection was all about?

 

[jillian]

Well, according to the story, Yeshua IS a descendant of the line of David.

As far as the 1,000 years of peace? That is when He returns.

As far as G-d not letting Yeshua die? Well.....what to you think the resurrection was all about?

Where does it say in the old testament he was going to come twice?

And I don't believe in a resurrection.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Where does it say in the old testament he was going to come twice?

And I don't believe in a resurrection.

It doesn't say that in the OT, the OT just says that He will come.

The return is referred to in the NT, because that is the book that covers His life.

And....if you don't believe in resurrection, then you aren't getting the full impact of the story. G-d HAD to resurrect Yeshua, because His mission hadn't been completed yet, as Rome and the Hebrew upper leadership united to crucify Him.

By the way.....here's an interesting thought on the Second Coming......

When Yeshua was talking to His disciples before He took off, He'd told them "I hope that you do it better and faster than I", meaning spreading the Word of God.

Now.....here's an interesting "what if".......

What if the Second Coming is someone who studies long enough to make the connections correctly, and then starts passing it to others, to unravel all the bullshit that various people had inserted into His teachings?

Maybe that is how G-d is going to do it.

 

[KittenKoder]

It doesn't say that in the OT, the OT just says that He will come.

The return is referred to in the NT, because that is the book that covers His life.

And....if you don't believe in resurrection, then you aren't getting the full impact of the story. G-d HAD to resurrect Yeshua, because His mission hadn't been completed yet, as Rome and the Hebrew upper leadership united to crucify Him.

By the way.....here's an interesting thought on the Second Coming......

When Yeshua was talking to His disciples before He took off, He'd told them "I hope that you do it better and faster than I", meaning spreading the Word of God.

Now.....here's an interesting "what if".......

What if the Second Coming is someone who studies long enough to make the connections correctly, and then starts passing it to others, to unravel all the bullshit that various people had inserted into His teachings?

Maybe that is how G-d is going to do it.

With that possibility you are admitting that any other religion may be more accurate, so it's a nice thought. i like it.

 

[jillian]

Take the whining here...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/59063-charlie-bass-trolling-the-bible-thread.html