Discussion in 'Politics' started by ScreamingEagle, Jul 1, 2009.
Obama's honeymoon is officially over:
Of course it's HIS recession. It's a no-brainer. But that's not to say HE CAUSED IT. Also a no-brainer.
It's official: U.S. in a recession since December 2007 - Dec. 1, 2008
The current recession is one of the longest downturns since the Great Depression of the 1930's.
The last two recessions (1990-1991 and 2001) lasted eight months each, and only two of the 10 previous post-Depression downturns lasted as long as a full year,
Let's all hold hands and blame it on Bush... Truly you don't think any of this could possibly be Obama's fault! I'm shocked. He's going to spend us back into prosperity. The large number of unemployed people can be supported by Obama's give away programs. No need for worry. The government is going to take care of you from craddle to grave. When you die you will be just like you were when you were born, i.e., naked and broke!
What Obama WILL do, and what Bush DID do are two issues. The thread's title is that Obama "owns" the recession. The hell he does...
No matter how hard you people try to pretend that George W. Bush's own policies did not have a dramatic effect on today's economic situation, it just won't fly. You can't possibly be that stupid.
Obama said he wanted to get away from the failed policies of the past. He didn't do that, instead he embraced FDR's failed policies from the past that extended the Great Depression for ten years, and looky here -- these same failed policies of the past are extending THIS economic downturn!
And if he gets his way with Cap and Tax, he'll successfully turn this recession into a depression. Today's jobless numbers are quite alarming, and it's only going to get worse.
Where's all the "shovel-ready" jobs we were promised? You know, the ones we needed right away, hence the need to pass the scamwow stimulus bill so fast no one had time to actually read it?
BO did not cause it, Bush did.
BO prolonged it and made it worse.
What a great POTUS he is not.
B*O* is a C*F*
It's not debatable that Obama caused this recession. No one's making that argument. He didn't.
It IS debatable whether it can be attributed to Booooosh however. Like the Titanic sinking, many variables had to come into play to get what we got. Including, just like the Titanic, the Captain's mistakes, actions or inactions... The lookouts, didn't get their assigned field glasses... The first officer's mistaken maneuvering of the ship due to lack of knowledge of how to properly turn it..... The design flaws, the poor-grade, brittle steel and the defective rivets, hell even the weather and sea conditions that night contributed. You can't rationally blame them all on the Captain. Just like you cannot pretend to be rational and blame the recession entirely on Booooosh.
First of all, there is no consensus that FDR's policies were a "failure." Quite the opposite. Second, the Stimulus Bill was indeed R.E.A.D. Otherwise, how did the cons know which parts they didn't like (or invented, like the San Francisco "mouse" that involved protection of wetlands, not mice)? Third, the shovel-ready projects ARE getting done, just obviously not as miraculously with the speed of light as you people would like. You can go to any number of websites that I've posted ad nauseam (and none of you bother to look at) and follow the progress, PER PROJECT, PER STATE.
Prolonged it how? Is he personally responsible for businesses unable to keep going due to the financial crunch and so they need to lay people off? Do tell me how Obama is responsible, personally. Have your taxes gone up yet?
Most economists agree FDR's policies extended the depression about ten years.
And hold on there.... You're painting with a pretty broad brush with the "you people" stuff. The SPEED of the jobs arriving was promised, not arbitrarily expected out of the blue. They were one of the selling points for the rush to get this bill passed no one read.
And we see that 10% unemployment rate about to hit, with no end in sight. Inflation will be right around the corner, then a full-blown depression.
Obama's made a mountain out of a molehill, just like his idol FDR did.
Not Booooosh, personally, his administration. Better? Would you blame Clinton? The 90's were the most prosperous in history.
But CON$ pretend to be rational blaming the 1982 Reagan Recession, the worst recession since the Great Depression, on Carter two full years into Reagan's first term.
The American Spectator : Fumbling Around
The American Spectator
SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE GIPPER
Reagan's first two years in office were an expansion of the Carter depression
I'm really sorry that YOU PEOPLE (sorry, but it's fitting) choose to ONLY see the negative side of everything when there are indeed signs that the economy is slowly recovering. YOU PEOPLE demand instant results, which is ignorant.
CNNMoney.com Market Report - Jul. 1, 2009
Stock gains speed up
Wall Street rallies on rising commodity shares and upbeat housing and manufacturing reports.
Last Updated: July 1, 2009: 10:50 AM ET
Bush did not cause this, he merely contributed to getting us here. The road that got us here has been a long one with more than one administration to blame. Obama, as far as I can tell, is doing nothing to help the situation. Rather, it seems as if his policies will only be prolonging our problems. But time will tell. So far, not so good.
It's funny, I seem to remember some folks laying the blame for 9/11 at Bush's feet, completely ignoring the policies of administrations past which, any thinking person could conclude, contributed to those events. They claim he ignored warnings in intelligence briefings that were at best vague. As if the prior administration didn't ignore the fact that Osama had essentially declared war on the U.S. in 1996. Perhaps Bush should have declared martial law based on the information at hand?
The point I'm trying to get to, or the question really, is this:
At what point does Obama get pinned with the responsibility for the stateof the union? When will people stop blaming Bush and recognize Obama's leadership? September?
Well he/they could make some arguments that is was clinton/carter, like Freddy/fanny or like Lindsey Graham's 1999 deregulations that Clinton signed, but then they would have to ignore everything that happened after that.
The main/majority of the blame falls on GW and the GOP from 2000-2006. They took NAFTA and made it even worse. In 2004 there was an op ed that was titled something like, "bush's policies after 9-11 were more damaging to the economy than 9-11 itself". 9-11 was just a one day event. What happened after is what led us to this mess. Deregulations, 2 wars, predatory lending, tax breaks to the rich, tax breaks to companies going overseas, tax breaks to bring in toyota/honda and kill unions, lower wages, etc. Read PNAC. It lays out exactly what the GOP wanted to do and what they would need to accomplish their very radical goals. A 9-11 type event was needed, and they got it.
But I'm just a conspiracy theorist. Meanwhile they were conspiring against us.
The woman overseeing the tarp funds explained it best.
Before the Great Depression we had big busts and booms every 10 years. Good for the rich, bad for the masses. So we put in regulations and the New Deal and Unions came to be and we had 60 years of slow steady healthy growth.
Then Reagan became president and he started busting unions and sending jobs overseas and deregulating and giving rich people all the tax breaks, etc, and then we started getting things like the John McCain Keating 5 S&L loans scandal of the 80's, and then we got Enron and Bernie Madoff and the housing crash and the bundling of toxic assets and the bank bailouts.
I know its been going on forever and its hard to grasp, but basically it all started happening with Reagan.
And righties lied when they said Clinton was the most liberal guy ever.
And now we are seeing that they lied about Obama being a socialist. They're attacking him like they did Clinton from both angles. Is he a sellout too or is he a socialist? Hard to say for sure, so they just attack from both angles. Very effective seeing as how I have to argue against both approaches.
Meanwhile the lobbyists still run this country, but you won't see righties complaining about lobbyists. Maybe once in awhile, but they are too busy tea bagging liberal social programs that cost billions to notice the $9 trillions the bankers stole in the last 8 months.
They want America to fail. They said we wanted Bush to fail in Iraq so we could win the election. Not true. Just a case of I Told You So's.
But we would not let them forget Bush lied us in. After that, win god damn it. And sorry if we pointed out that it seemed like Bush was happy that Iraq was a quagmire because then his oil and defense buddies could continue to rape the tax payers. Just seemed that way to us.
But I didn't want the GOP to fail in 2002. I forgot all about the 2000 election and I rallied behind Bush, just like everyone else. I burned my Dixie Chick CD's too.
And I too was mad at Canada for not backing us up on the Iraq invasion. Boy am I embarrassed now.
And if Bushanomics worked, I'd be a god damn Republican today. I would have said, "well, the newt gingrich congress is gone and this new one is good", but the new one was even worse.
Tom Delay was a scumbag. Remember Jack Abramoff. Sure he gave Dems pennies on the dollar compared to how much the GOP got from that scumbag.
But the GOP did so much wrong in those first 4 years that they didn't deserve to lead this country. Just look at the economy today if you doubt that. The only reason they won was they scared Americans into thinking if the Dems won, we'd have another 9-11. They owned the media/spotlight back then. Dems were irrelivent. The GOP got to lead, and now they don't want to take the blame for their results? Typical.
Its in the Dems hands now. I hope they don't fuck up.
But last year was the year to fall in love. Now is the time to fall in line. We did it for you after 9-11, so now its the GOP's turn to fall in line. We didn't like Bush's radical agenda either. And he didn't have 60 seats yet still he got it done. Right wingers can't deny he got whatever he wanted passed. Not one veto in 6 years. Amazing. That's a record.
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