Obama's coalition is starting to crumble.

[ekrem]

Germany is actually withdrawing from ALL NATO operations in the Med-Sea.
Even from Operations unrelated to Libya like 'Active Endavour'.

Germany has participated in 3 Naval NATO missions in the Med-Sea and is now withdrawing from those Operations:

Deutschland steigt aus Nato-Operation aus - mz-web.de

 

[ekrem]

Germany will also withdraw her AWACS Aircraft from the Naval NATO missions

Agenturmeldungen : euronews : Aktuelle internationale und Europa-Nachrichten als Video on Demand

Now, that's some stance they're showing.
Kudos to Germany!

And some guys in this thread boast to have secured the support of Qatar in the coalition.

 

[tigerbob]

Germany is actually withdrawing from ALL NATO operations in the Med-Sea.
Even from Operations unrelated to Libya like 'Active Endavour'.

Germany has participated in 3 Naval NATO missions in the Med-Sea and is now withdrawing from those Operations:

Deutschland steigt aus Nato-Operation aus - mz-web.de

Germany abstained from the UN resolution, and the foreign minister said at the time that the German military would play no role.

Taking a closer look at German politics, this seems to me like pre-election maneuvering by a politically panicked Angela Merkel.

 

[ekrem]

Germany abstained from the UN resolution, and the foreign minister said at the time that the German military would play no role.

Taking a closer look at German politics, this seems to me like pre-election maneuvering by a politically panicked Angela Merkel.

But why are they withdrawing from operations unrelated to Libya?
They withdraw from 3 active NATO Naval missions in the Med-Sea.

English:

Germany is withdrawing ships and air crews in the Mediterranean Sea from various long-running NATO operations following the military alliance's decision to enforce a U.N. arms embargo on Libya.
Germany withdraws Mediterranean assets from NATO command as alliance takes on Libya embargo - 570News


The European partners piss off Germany, and next week they'll come to get their deficit-debts to be bailed out.

 

[tigerbob]

Germany abstained from the UN resolution, and the foreign minister said at the time that the German military would play no role.

Taking a closer look at German politics, this seems to me like pre-election maneuvering by a politically panicked Angela Merkel.

But why are they withdrawing from operations unrelated to Libya?
They withdraw from 3 active NATO Naval missions in the Med-Sea.

English:

Germany is withdrawing ships and air crews in the Mediterranean Sea from various long-running NATO operations following the military alliance's decision to enforce a U.N. arms embargo on Libya.
Germany withdraws Mediterranean assets from NATO command as alliance takes on Libya embargo - 570News

Good question. No idea. Distancing themselves from anything to do with anything?

 

[ekrem]

Good question. No idea. Distancing themselves from anything to do with anything?

At least Qatar is participating with 2-4 aircrafts (varrying press reports).

Let's see what Italy will do with the Airbases now.

What a mess!

 

[tigerbob]

Good question. No idea. Distancing themselves from anything to do with anything?

At least Qatar is participating with 2-4 aircrafts (varrying press reports).

Given the language used in the UN resolution, I can't see why anyone is surprised about the military operations.

That said, it doesn't surprise me that a number of countries are now distancing themselves from ongoing operations. They have the ability to say that they supported the resolution, but also to say they they condemned the attacks, so they can vary their message based on their audience. Nice. Screw the people who are dying so long as it's plausibly deniable.

 

[ekrem]

Given the language used in the UN resolution, I can't see why anyone is surprised about the military operations.

That said, it doesn't surprise me that a number of countries are now distancing themselves from ongoing operations. They have the ability to say that they supported the resolution, but also to say they they condemned the attacks, so they can vary their message based on their audience. Nice. Screw the people who are dying so long as it's plausibly deniable.

It has crashed within NATO, negotiating for 3 days.
Simple as that.

Like the crash with Bush and Iraq preparation.

Bush's crash was at least before the bombing, Obama 1st bombed and then sought NATO.

 

[Flopper]

NATO met for 3 days, each day at least 6 hours of meetings.

That's all they got: NATO patrolling the Med-Sea and searching ships headed towards Libya for weapons.

Every time NATO becomes involved there is in fighting as to who will take command and control. The US announcement that it will not, leaves France, UK, and Germany to duke it out. France seems to want a UK/France lead, the UK wants NATO Command to assume control, several countries want the UN to take control and other countries won't commit until leadership is established. I think there will be a deal within a few days, and NATO will be doing a lot more patrolling the cost.
Libya: US bid to hand control to Nato halted by infighting | World news | The Guardian

 

[ekrem]

NATO met for 3 days, each day at least 6 hours of meetings.

That's all they got: NATO patrolling the Med-Sea and searching ships headed towards Libya for weapons.

Every time NATO becomes involved there is in fighting as to who will take command and control. The US announcement that it will not, leaves France, UK, and Germany to duke it out. France seems to want a UK/France lead, the UK wants NATO Command to assume control, several countries want the UN to take control and other countries won't commit until leadership is established. I think there will be a deal within a few days, and NATO will be doing a lot more patrolling the cost.
Libya: US bid to hand control to Nato halted by infighting | World news | The Guardian

- France didn't want to share command&control of the operation with NATO. But has backed off from that position.
- Germany is pissed, that an operation is happening. And has withdrawn hardware&personel from 3 Naval NATO missions in the Med-Sea.
- Italy is threatening with her Airbases from which Libya is being currently attacked, if NATO does not assume command of the Operation
- Turkey is pissed at France because of the style of events after UN resolution

- Obama is in S-America.

- Libyan Tanks are of the flying type.

 

[dilloduck]

Is Turkey satisfied to let Libya fight it out amongst themselves ?

 

[ekrem]

Is Turkey satisfied to let Libya fight it out amongst themselves ?

I don't know.
Our discomfort stems from France, who can't separate EU-membership issue with NATO issue. We have been excluded from the decision-making after UN resolution by France.

Turkish defense Minister:
"It seems impossible for us to understand France being so prominent in this process. We are having difficulty in understanding it being like the enforcer of United Nations' decisions,"
Turkey wants Libyan intervention over quickly | Reuters


Obama and Erdogan have telephoned yesterday, NATO Supreme Allied Commander General Stavridis will come Thursday to Turkey.
Then we'll see.

 

[ekrem]

France re-joined military wing of NATO in 2009.
Before they had departed from military wing and were only represented in dilpomatic wing of NATO.
NATO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Turkey did not VETO France's re-entrance into military wing.

They were 4 decades absent from military wing:
http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2009/03/france-to-re-join-nato-core/64252.aspx

And Obama is in S-America and wants to transfer command to NATO, and Germany is pissed and Italy is threatening with the Airbases. WTF.

 

[Flopper]

I find it funny that Liberals are not pointing out that this so called coalition is actually Smaller than the one we took into Iraq.

lol

When Bush invaded Iraq, Iraqi forces were estimated at 350,000. Libya boasts a regular army of 25,000, many of which are gathered in Tripoli to protect Gaddafi. How large a coalition is needed? These coalitions are formed for political and PR reasons. Usually 2 or 3 countries supply 95% of everything. Look at the contributions from of various nations to the Iraqi war coalition. Japan sent a ship load of Toyota vehicles and a couple hundred troops. One nation sent 15 doctors and some ambulances, Iceland sent two troops.

 

[tigerbob]

I find it funny that Liberals are not pointing out that this so called coalition is actually Smaller than the one we took into Iraq.

lol

When Bush invaded Iraq, Iraqi forces were estimated at 350,000. Libya boasts a regular army of 25,000, many of which are gathered in Tripoli to protect Gaddafi. How large a coalition is needed? These coalitions are formed for political and PR reasons. Usually 2 or 3 countries supply 95% of everything. Look at the contributions from of various nations to the Iraqi war coalition. Japan sent a ship load of Toyota vehicles and a couple hundred troops. One nation sent 15 doctors and some ambulances, Iceland sent two troops.

Is that a fact? Bless 'em.

 

[Flopper]

Germany is actually withdrawing from ALL NATO operations in the Med-Sea.
Even from Operations unrelated to Libya like 'Active Endavour'.

Germany has participated in 3 Naval NATO missions in the Med-Sea and is now withdrawing from those Operations:

Deutschland steigt aus Nato-Operation aus - mz-web.de

Why am I not surprised. Germany contributed nothing to either Iraqi war, only handful troops to Afghanistan and nothing to the war in Bosnia.

 

[ekrem]

Why am I not surprised. Germany contributed nothing to either Iraqi war, only handful troops to Afghanistan and nothing to the war in Bosnia.

Germany is doing great work in N-Afganistan.
Germany has a shit-load of US installations which contributed to Iraq operation.
Also, US soldiers are treated in Germany by far the most outside of USA.
After USA destructed Iraq, Germany deleted 5.8 Billion $ of Iraqi debt and contributes to institution-building in Iraq and finances German led projects.

Germany contributed to whole Balkan operations, and it finances re-construction afterwards as it is by far biggest economy in Europe.

You only begin to value things, once you miss them. Hope it doesn't happen.
Germany is the most potent potential Ally the USA could get in USA, if German psyche could accept the role of playing the poodle others in Europe so happily play!

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What Coalition? It's a couple of Oil-Hungry Western European Nations and us. This is no Coalition.

 

[tigerbob]

What Coalition? It's a couple of Oil-Hungry Western European Nations and us. This is no Coalition.

That's exactly what Gaddafi's supporters are saying too.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What Coalition? It's a couple of Oil-Hungry Western European Nations and us. This is no Coalition.

That's exactly what Gaddafi's supporters are saying too.

They're right and so am i.