Obama's birth certificate

[USArmyRetired]

In the eyes of the law, the " Certification of Live Birth" certainly does establish that he was born in Hawaii.

Really? How so?

Because the State of Hawaii says so. Also, because it's the only type of birth certificate that they release.
Applying for Hawaiian Home Lands — Department of Hawaiian Home Lands

Primary Documents

Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

NOT SO FAST:

Confirmed: Hawaii Department of Health Can Issue a Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth AKA Long-Form Birth Certificate; Obama Got $10.00!?

Read Article that debunks that the Certification of Live Birth is the only form Hawaii issues (with pictures)

Confirmed: Hawaii Department of Health Can Issue a Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth AKA Long-Form Birth Certificate; Obama Got $10.00!? | Birther Report: Obama Release Your Records

 

[Mr. Shaman]

This state went for Obama 55% to 44% in the 08 election. I think they are right to do this. State Assemblyman, Darryl Metcalfe in a leaked memo has been found to be drafting plans for Pennsylvania to go after his eligibility January 4th after the GOP majority and new GOP governor is sworn in.

Whew....

The improving-economy is makin' you 'Baggers THAT crazy??!!!

 

[Toro]

"President Joseph R. Biden, Jr."

Get over the birth certificate nonsense, if only for this reason.

lol

i owe you rep for this

 

[SwingVoter]

Deal, the first congressman in th 233 year history of America who has ever challenged a sitting presidents eligibility, wrote a letter to Obama and asked him to prove his eligibility.

good to see some of these new Republicans have a pair, but still have a lot of damage to repair for giving us a decade's worth of atrocious big spenders, from Bush to McCain to Frist to Hastert

 

[Intense]

Deal, the first congressman in th 233 year history of America who has ever challenged a sitting presidents eligibility, wrote a letter to Obama and asked him to prove his eligibility.

good to see some of these new Republicans have a pair, but still have a lot of damage to repair for giving us a decade's worth of atrocious big spenders, from Bush to McCain to Frist to Hastert

And just before that, what was it? Republican's were going to starve old people and throw them into the streets??? How did they react to those accusations? They out spent the Dem's on social programs.

 

[Intense]

Why doesn't Obama release his College Transcripts? Foreign Student Aid?

 

[Foxfyre]

Why doesn't Obama release his College Transcripts? Foreign Student Aid?

Again there is almost certainly damning information there as well as in that long form birth certificate or Obama wouldn't have taken such pains to see that this stuff was kept out of public view and unavailable. Probably it would contradict the flowery scenes from his books or otherwise screw up the carefully engineered persona he has built for himself. And there is always the possibility that it could add fuel to the fire and stir up the Birthers even more.

The most damning evidence are some of his and Michelle's own statements as I posted in the video earlier. All are taken out of context of course and putting something into its full context often does significantly change the perception of the intent. The Obama-supportive media doesn't want to deal with all that, and as long as they can continue to paint the Birthers as fantatical haters, they won't have to.

And the double standard is alive and well as always where it is 'improper' to inquire of President Obama's past while the conspiracy theorists dug furiously throughout the entire Clinton and Bush administrations looking for anything, real or unreal, to use against them.

But there are questions that I think anybody of normal curiosity would like to have answered about our current President. And because Obama won't answer them, the Birthers will almost certainly press on.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No, no proof has ever been given Obama was a natural born citizen and is eligible under Article 2 Sect 1, if you know what that is. That is why they are asking for his 'Original' Birth Certificate.

I digress back to my main point, "If someone's mind is so firmly set against something, no amount of evidence in the world will convince them otherwise."

So your mind must be firmly shut then?

It is certainly possible that President Obama was born in Hawaii. But the certification of live birth doesn't quite establish that.

His actual birth certificate (the one they call the "long form") might, but he has refused to share that one.

Meanwhile, there is some information suggesting that he was born in Kenya. ALSO not proved.

I presume he was born in Hawaii. But it's silly to pretend that we "know" it for a fact. We simply don't. It does seem odd that he refuses to prove his own eligibility in light of this prospect.

Note the word 'might' in there. There, in that one sentence, is the reality of the birther cult.

There is nothing that could ever be provided that would cause them to say, OKAY, the president WAS born here. Good enough.

Nothing.

 

[Intense]

I digress back to my main point, "If someone's mind is so firmly set against something, no amount of evidence in the world will convince them otherwise."

So your mind must be firmly shut then?

It is certainly possible that President Obama was born in Hawaii. But the certification of live birth doesn't quite establish that.

His actual birth certificate (the one they call the "long form") might, but he has refused to share that one.

Meanwhile, there is some information suggesting that he was born in Kenya. ALSO not proved.

I presume he was born in Hawaii. But it's silly to pretend that we "know" it for a fact. We simply don't. It does seem odd that he refuses to prove his own eligibility in light of this prospect.

Note the word 'might' in there. There, in that one sentence, is the reality of the birther cult.

There is nothing that could ever be provided that would cause them to say, OKAY, the president WAS born here. Good enough.

Nothing.

Actually the Verified Original works for me. His College Transcripts wok too unless there are Legal problem's with them being revealed. Hmmmm..... Legal problems relating to fraud?

 

[Avatar4321]

Not sure why you democrats get so upset with states requiring proof of eligibility. I mean you are always saying how Obama is a citizen and born in Hawaii. This shouldnt effect him whatsoever.

Just incredible.

Why is it incredible? Obama is a citizen. Why the heck does it bother you if people request proof of eligibility? Seems like a common sense request.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not sure why you democrats get so upset with states requiring proof of eligibility. I mean you are always saying how Obama is a citizen and born in Hawaii. This shouldnt effect him whatsoever.

Just incredible.

Why is it incredible? Obama is a citizen. Why the heck does it bother you if people request proof of eligibility? Seems like a common sense request.

Exactly. When there's nothing to hide, and you've been truthful about who your parents are and the circumstances of your birth, why wouldn't you simply produce the long form and put all the rumors to rest? I personally don't think the long form birth certificate would disqualify him as President, but I bet there's something on it that would blow to kingdom come the myth he has built around himself. Ditto the other stuff that has been put under lock and key and is inaccessible to anybody.

The faux indignation from the Obama supporters is almost comical when you remember back how they demanded to know EVERY little detail of George W. Bush's college days, his time in the military, etc. etc. etc. and, if they couldn't find something real to bash him with, they just made it up.

 

[Ozmar]

I can't believe this thread has gone on so long, and I can't believe it's not butter.

 

[Rinata]

Well I would just as soon the birthers drop it. But no other President has ever been asked to produce a birth certificate because there has never been a question about any other President's place of birth or the citizenship status of his/her parents. Since McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, there was some question about his eligibility and he obtained a court ruling to verify his eligibility to be President. To the best of my knowledge, Obama has not done that.

The fact that Obama has been so secretive about certain parts of his life suggests that there is something that would be embarassing to him if it was revealed. At least that is my best bet. But no, I don't want the birthers to keep beating this horse even though it isn't really dead.

There are still videos surfacing like this one that keep the suspicions alive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8&feature=player_embedded

What happened with McCain is also ridiculous. The founding fathers did not make it clear what a, "natural born citizen" is. So does that mean that any child born to a military family outside of the United States is not a citizen?? That's ridiculous!! Did they question McCain the first time he ran for president??? I think not. And I still say that neither McCain nor Obama would have wasted their time running for president if they were ineligible. What a crock.

And no matter what proof the president offers, it will be rejected by birthers. They don't care about that. They don't want him to be president. So I repeat, some people need to get over the fact that we have a black president. He's here to stay. Direct your energies to something worthwhile. Get a load of this:

A right-wing Texas state lawmaker, who made headlines during an appearance at a tea party rally when he said, “Barack Obama is God’s punishment on us,” filed a birther bill on Tuesday. Rep. Leo Berman, says the bill is necessary, because we may have a Kenyan-born usurper living in the White House. Berman, known for filing numerous xenophobic anti-immigration bills, is a certified crank, but with extremist tea party Republicans gaining control of both legislative chambers in the midterms, his kooky birther bill might have a shot of at least coming up for a vote.
Berman told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal his birther bill is necessary to protect Americans from the Kenyan-born Obama.

“This bill is necessary because we have a president whom the American people don’t know whether he was born in Kenya or some other place.” Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler, said in reference to President Barack Obama and of House Bill 295. “If you are running for president or vice president, you’ve got to show here in Texas that you were born in the United States and the birth certificate is your proof.”

For the record, again, President Obama made his birth certificate available online, in response to repeated smears and conspiracy theories that he was not a natural born citizen. The wacky birther conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked. President Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or anywhere else. The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu. And a birth announcement in the local paper announced Barack Obama’s birth.

But it’s a zombie lie that just won’t die. Why? Because there is a certain segment of the population that will never accept a black man as president.And bigoted lawmakers like Leo Berman are only too happy to use their positions to promote the racist conspiracy theory.

Texas Birther Bill: Obama Probably ‘Born in Kenya’ | ChattahBox News Blog

 

[Foxfyre]

Well I would just as soon the birthers drop it. But no other President has ever been asked to produce a birth certificate because there has never been a question about any other President's place of birth or the citizenship status of his/her parents. Since McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, there was some question about his eligibility and he obtained a court ruling to verify his eligibility to be President. To the best of my knowledge, Obama has not done that.

The fact that Obama has been so secretive about certain parts of his life suggests that there is something that would be embarassing to him if it was revealed. At least that is my best bet. But no, I don't want the birthers to keep beating this horse even though it isn't really dead.

There are still videos surfacing like this one that keep the suspicions alive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8&feature=player_embedded

What happened with McCain is also ridiculous. The founding fathers did not make it clear what a, "natural born citizen" is. So does that mean that any child born to a military family outside of the United States is not a citizen?? That's ridiculous!! Did they question McCain the first time he ran for president??? I think not. And I still say that neither McCain nor Obama would have wasted their time running for president if they were ineligible. What a crock.

And no matter what proof the president offers, it will be rejected by birthers. They don't care about that. They don't want him to be president. So I repeat, some people need to get over the fact that we have a black president. He's here to stay. Direct your energies to something worthwhile. Get a load of this:

A right-wing Texas state lawmaker, who made headlines during an appearance at a tea party rally when he said, “Barack Obama is God’s punishment on us,” filed a birther bill on Tuesday. Rep. Leo Berman, says the bill is necessary, because we may have a Kenyan-born usurper living in the White House. Berman, known for filing numerous xenophobic anti-immigration bills, is a certified crank, but with extremist tea party Republicans gaining control of both legislative chambers in the midterms, his kooky birther bill might have a shot of at least coming up for a vote.
Berman told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal his birther bill is necessary to protect Americans from the Kenyan-born Obama.

“This bill is necessary because we have a president whom the American people don’t know whether he was born in Kenya or some other place.” Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler, said in reference to President Barack Obama and of House Bill 295. “If you are running for president or vice president, you’ve got to show here in Texas that you were born in the United States and the birth certificate is your proof.”

For the record, again, President Obama made his birth certificate available online, in response to repeated smears and conspiracy theories that he was not a natural born citizen. The wacky birther conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked. President Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or anywhere else. The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu. And a birth announcement in the local paper announced Barack Obama’s birth.

But it’s a zombie lie that just won’t die. Why? Because there is a certain segment of the population that will never accept a black man as president.And bigoted lawmakers like Leo Berman are only too happy to use their positions to promote the racist conspiracy theory.

Texas Birther Bill: Obama Probably ‘Born in Kenya’ | ChattahBox News Blog

Yes he put A photo of a birth certificate on line but he allowed only two or three people, all supportive of him, to actually see the document itself. He ordered the long form birth certificate sealed. Is that sinisiter? We don't know. But it does add fuel to the speculation and theories. You can be sure that if there had been ANY question about the eligibility of a George W. Bush, given the extreme hatred and venom directed at him from Day 1, the Bush haters would have been demanding to see proof along with their demands to see proof of his college transcripts, military record, rap sheet, etc. etc. etc.

The fact that Obama doesn't want anybody to see his birth certificate then morphs into other investigation by experts and amateurs alike. Had he produced that birth certificate and put the issue to rest they wouldn't be digging into his time in Indonesia or trying to find evidence that he attended Columbia University or info on his passports or how he managed to get through college given his coming from such 'modest means' etc. etc. etc.

But thinking that he has been treated differently in this regard than ANY other President would have been treated under the same circumstances simply is dumb given the history that we know.

 

[Rinata]

Well I would just as soon the birthers drop it. But no other President has ever been asked to produce a birth certificate because there has never been a question about any other President's place of birth or the citizenship status of his/her parents. Since McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, there was some question about his eligibility and he obtained a court ruling to verify his eligibility to be President. To the best of my knowledge, Obama has not done that.

The fact that Obama has been so secretive about certain parts of his life suggests that there is something that would be embarassing to him if it was revealed. At least that is my best bet. But no, I don't want the birthers to keep beating this horse even though it isn't really dead.

There are still videos surfacing like this one that keep the suspicions alive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8&feature=player_embedded

What happened with McCain is also ridiculous. The founding fathers did not make it clear what a, "natural born citizen" is. So does that mean that any child born to a military family outside of the United States is not a citizen?? That's ridiculous!! Did they question McCain the first time he ran for president??? I think not. And I still say that neither McCain nor Obama would have wasted their time running for president if they were ineligible. What a crock.

And no matter what proof the president offers, it will be rejected by birthers. They don't care about that. They don't want him to be president. So I repeat, some people need to get over the fact that we have a black president. He's here to stay. Direct your energies to something worthwhile. Get a load of this:

A right-wing Texas state lawmaker, who made headlines during an appearance at a tea party rally when he said, “Barack Obama is God’s punishment on us,” filed a birther bill on Tuesday. Rep. Leo Berman, says the bill is necessary, because we may have a Kenyan-born usurper living in the White House. Berman, known for filing numerous xenophobic anti-immigration bills, is a certified crank, but with extremist tea party Republicans gaining control of both legislative chambers in the midterms, his kooky birther bill might have a shot of at least coming up for a vote.
Berman told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal his birther bill is necessary to protect Americans from the Kenyan-born Obama.

“This bill is necessary because we have a president whom the American people don’t know whether he was born in Kenya or some other place.” Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler, said in reference to President Barack Obama and of House Bill 295. “If you are running for president or vice president, you’ve got to show here in Texas that you were born in the United States and the birth certificate is your proof.”

For the record, again, President Obama made his birth certificate available online, in response to repeated smears and conspiracy theories that he was not a natural born citizen. The wacky birther conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked. President Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or anywhere else. The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu. And a birth announcement in the local paper announced Barack Obama’s birth.

But it’s a zombie lie that just won’t die. Why? Because there is a certain segment of the population that will never accept a black man as president.And bigoted lawmakers like Leo Berman are only too happy to use their positions to promote the racist conspiracy theory.

Texas Birther Bill: Obama Probably ‘Born in Kenya’ | ChattahBox News Blog

Yes he put A photo of a birth certificate on line but he allowed only two or three people, all supportive of him, to actually see the document itself. He ordered the long form birth certificate sealed. Is that sinisiter? We don't know. But it does add fuel to the speculation and theories. You can be sure that if there had been ANY question about the eligibility of a George W. Bush, given the extreme hatred and venom directed at him from Day 1, the Bush haters would have been demanding to see proof along with their demands to see proof of his college transcripts, military record, rap sheet, etc. etc. etc.

The fact that Obama doesn't want anybody to see his birth certificate then morphs into other investigation by experts and amateurs alike. Had he produced that birth certificate and put the issue to rest they wouldn't be digging into his time in Indonesia or trying to find evidence that he attended Columbia University or info on his passports or how he managed to get through college given his coming from such 'modest means' etc. etc. etc.

But thinking that he has been treated differently in this regard than ANY other President would have been treated under the same circumstances simply is dumb given the history that we know.

I really don't want to argue with you about this. I think you are so wrong about everything. But I think name calling and insults are not productive. And I thank you for not resorting to that. Except for calling me dumb in the last paragraph.

Lastly, can you supply links for some of the statements you've made?? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Foxfyre]

What happened with McCain is also ridiculous. The founding fathers did not make it clear what a, "natural born citizen" is. So does that mean that any child born to a military family outside of the United States is not a citizen?? That's ridiculous!! Did they question McCain the first time he ran for president??? I think not. And I still say that neither McCain nor Obama would have wasted their time running for president if they were ineligible. What a crock.

And no matter what proof the president offers, it will be rejected by birthers. They don't care about that. They don't want him to be president. So I repeat, some people need to get over the fact that we have a black president. He's here to stay. Direct your energies to something worthwhile. Get a load of this:

A right-wing Texas state lawmaker, who made headlines during an appearance at a tea party rally when he said, “Barack Obama is God’s punishment on us,” filed a birther bill on Tuesday. Rep. Leo Berman, says the bill is necessary, because we may have a Kenyan-born usurper living in the White House. Berman, known for filing numerous xenophobic anti-immigration bills, is a certified crank, but with extremist tea party Republicans gaining control of both legislative chambers in the midterms, his kooky birther bill might have a shot of at least coming up for a vote.
Berman told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal his birther bill is necessary to protect Americans from the Kenyan-born Obama.

“This bill is necessary because we have a president whom the American people don’t know whether he was born in Kenya or some other place.” Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler, said in reference to President Barack Obama and of House Bill 295. “If you are running for president or vice president, you’ve got to show here in Texas that you were born in the United States and the birth certificate is your proof.”

For the record, again, President Obama made his birth certificate available online, in response to repeated smears and conspiracy theories that he was not a natural born citizen. The wacky birther conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked. President Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or anywhere else. The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu. And a birth announcement in the local paper announced Barack Obama’s birth.

But it’s a zombie lie that just won’t die. Why? Because there is a certain segment of the population that will never accept a black man as president.And bigoted lawmakers like Leo Berman are only too happy to use their positions to promote the racist conspiracy theory.

Texas Birther Bill: Obama Probably ‘Born in Kenya’ | ChattahBox News Blog

Yes he put A photo of a birth certificate on line but he allowed only two or three people, all supportive of him, to actually see the document itself. He ordered the long form birth certificate sealed. Is that sinisiter? We don't know. But it does add fuel to the speculation and theories. You can be sure that if there had been ANY question about the eligibility of a George W. Bush, given the extreme hatred and venom directed at him from Day 1, the Bush haters would have been demanding to see proof along with their demands to see proof of his college transcripts, military record, rap sheet, etc. etc. etc.

The fact that Obama doesn't want anybody to see his birth certificate then morphs into other investigation by experts and amateurs alike. Had he produced that birth certificate and put the issue to rest they wouldn't be digging into his time in Indonesia or trying to find evidence that he attended Columbia University or info on his passports or how he managed to get through college given his coming from such 'modest means' etc. etc. etc.

But thinking that he has been treated differently in this regard than ANY other President would have been treated under the same circumstances simply is dumb given the history that we know.

I really don't want to argue with you about this. I think you are so wrong about everything. But I think name calling and insults are not productive. And I thank you for not resorting to that. Except for calling me dumb in the last paragraph.

Lastly, can you supply links for some of the statements you've made?? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

LOL Since I don't think you're dumb, I'll just say you're being disingenuous if you try to tell me that the Bush haters wouldn't have been digging like crazy into his background and history if there had been any question about his citizenship or birth status.

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh, and as for links, I have posted numerous links as have probably half the people posting on political threads on the Internet. I won't go to the effort to do that again--I'll refer you to the video I posted earlier in this thread that provides some of the reason for all the curiosity.

But just look at Snopes, TruthorFiction, and various other 'fact sites'--all agree there is no proof that Obama is not a U.S. citizen but none answer the still outstanding questions either.

And for the questions, theories, etc. stilll circulating, just type into your browser:
Obama's citizenship Status
Obama Columbia University
Obama Kenya
Obama college transcripts
Theories of Obama's birth

and such as that. You'll get thousands upon thousands of hits.

Then do the same re George W. Bush and his drinking problem, his military experience, his college transcripts, the 'secret organization' he belonged to at Harvard, his business background etc. etc. etc. and again you'll get thousands upon thousands of hits.

 

[daveman]

Yes he put A photo of a birth certificate on line but he allowed only two or three people, all supportive of him, to actually see the document itself. He ordered the long form birth certificate sealed. Is that sinisiter? We don't know. But it does add fuel to the speculation and theories. You can be sure that if there had been ANY question about the eligibility of a George W. Bush, given the extreme hatred and venom directed at him from Day 1, the Bush haters would have been demanding to see proof along with their demands to see proof of his college transcripts, military record, rap sheet, etc. etc. etc.

The fact that Obama doesn't want anybody to see his birth certificate then morphs into other investigation by experts and amateurs alike. Had he produced that birth certificate and put the issue to rest they wouldn't be digging into his time in Indonesia or trying to find evidence that he attended Columbia University or info on his passports or how he managed to get through college given his coming from such 'modest means' etc. etc. etc.

But thinking that he has been treated differently in this regard than ANY other President would have been treated under the same circumstances simply is dumb given the history that we know.

I really don't want to argue with you about this. I think you are so wrong about everything. But I think name calling and insults are not productive. And I thank you for not resorting to that. Except for calling me dumb in the last paragraph.

Lastly, can you supply links for some of the statements you've made?? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

LOL Since I don't think you're dumb, I'll just say you're being disingenuous if you try to tell me that the Bush haters wouldn't have been digging like crazy into his background and history if there had been any question about his citizenship or birth status.

They had questions about his service in the Texas Air National Guard. Some idiot faked memos that Dan Rather reported as real. The people desperate to believe anything bad about Bush called them "fake but accurate".

So, yes, the Bush haters did some dumb stuff.

 

[Rinata]

Yes he put A photo of a birth certificate on line but he allowed only two or three people, all supportive of him, to actually see the document itself. He ordered the long form birth certificate sealed. Is that sinisiter? We don't know. But it does add fuel to the speculation and theories. You can be sure that if there had been ANY question about the eligibility of a George W. Bush, given the extreme hatred and venom directed at him from Day 1, the Bush haters would have been demanding to see proof along with their demands to see proof of his college transcripts, military record, rap sheet, etc. etc. etc.

The fact that Obama doesn't want anybody to see his birth certificate then morphs into other investigation by experts and amateurs alike. Had he produced that birth certificate and put the issue to rest they wouldn't be digging into his time in Indonesia or trying to find evidence that he attended Columbia University or info on his passports or how he managed to get through college given his coming from such 'modest means' etc. etc. etc.

But thinking that he has been treated differently in this regard than ANY other President would have been treated under the same circumstances simply is dumb given the history that we know.

I really don't want to argue with you about this. I think you are so wrong about everything. But I think name calling and insults are not productive. And I thank you for not resorting to that. Except for calling me dumb in the last paragraph.

Lastly, can you supply links for some of the statements you've made?? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

LOL Since I don't think you're dumb, I'll just say you're being disingenuous if you try to tell me that the Bush haters wouldn't have been digging like crazy into his background and history if there had been any question about his citizenship or birth status.

I'll tell you why I really don't think that would have happened. First of all, the issue with McCain came up after all the hoopla about Obama. I think that was only to make it look fair. Kind of like choosing Michael Steele as the Republican National Committee Chairman. How could they not like black guys when they did that?? Then the poor thing turns out to be such a dud that they are getting ready to dump him!! Now this part is based only on his performance. He really is ineffective. I don't blame them.

Also, Bush was such a lousy president that nobody had to go looking for reasons to criticize him. He provided plenty of ammunition. I don't think his birthplace would ever have been an issue. And he was white. So I really am not being disingenuous. But I will say that I have changed my opinion of him to a certain degree. I think there are few people that are all good or all bad. I don't think he meant to hurt the country. I just think he's not very bright. I mean that sincerely and I'm not being a smartass. I have watched his interviews while he has been promoting his book. I've really enjoyed them. He was on Jay Leno's Tonight Show the other night. It was really funny. Andf I did see a caring and concern for people that I never saw when he was president.

In any case, I think birthers are not doing this with a pure heart. I really don't.

 

[Rinata]

Oh, and as for links, I have posted numerous links as have probably half the people posting on political threads on the Internet. I won't go to the effort to do that again--I'll refer you to the video I posted earlier in this thread that provides some of the reason for all the curiosity.

But just look at Snopes, TruthorFiction, and various other 'fact sites'--all agree there is no proof that Obama is not a U.S. citizen but none answer the still outstanding questions either.

And for the questions, theories, etc. stilll circulating, just type into your browser:
Obama's citizenship Status
Obama Columbia University
Obama Kenya
Obama college transcripts
Theories of Obama's birth

and such as that. You'll get thousands upon thousands of hits.

Then do the same re George W. Bush and his drinking problem, his military experience, his college transcripts, the 'secret organization' he belonged to at Harvard, his business background etc. etc. etc. and again you'll get thousands upon thousands of hits.

Oh yes, I know. I do that a lot. And I'm kind lof paticular about what I believe. When I was in school my journalism teacher said to always follow this rule:

"If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true."

So I try to remember to do that. Anyway, I've enjoyed the exchange very much. Thanks!!