OBAMA's BIG LIE!

[JimH52]

Of course...only the 1% should have access to the best health care. Mitt would agree with that.

 

[Greenbeard]

If govt is telling us what kind of health insurance we can have, how we have to pay for it, what treatments it can/can't cover, and decides who gets what kind of care and when, then the govt IS controlling health care. The govt has gone way beyond making sure people have adequate health insurance and now they have put 15 bureauocrats in charge of deciding what's considered "appropriate health care treatments" for everyone.......how is that NOT having the govt controlling healthcare??? Stop being so deliberately obtuse.

Sorry to inform you but this is merely rightwing propaganda. The government is in fact making sure folks have adequate health insurance by setting some minimum standards on the industry. They're not deciding "what treatments it can/can't cover," they're ensuring that insurers are offering at least a minimum package of benefits. They're not deciding "who gets what kind of care and when" beyond helping folks to gain access to decent insurance.

Meanwhile, your 15 bureaucrats are limited to Medicare, a federal health insurance program. They don't get to decide "'appropriate health care treatments' for everyone"; they don't even get to decide that for Medicare beneficiaries. Benefits--and certainly specific courses of treatment--are well outside of their purview.

 

[gwennie]

If govt is telling us what kind of health insurance we can have, how we have to pay for it, what treatments it can/can't cover, and decides who gets what kind of care and when, then the govt IS controlling health care. The govt has gone way beyond making sure people have adequate health insurance and now they have put 15 bureauocrats in charge of deciding what's considered "appropriate health care treatments" for everyone.......how is that NOT having the govt controlling healthcare??? Stop being so deliberately obtuse.

Sorry to inform you but this is merely rightwing propaganda. The government is in fact making sure folks have adequate health insurance by setting some minimum standards on the industry. They're not deciding "what treatments it can/can't cover," they're ensuring that insurers are offering at least a minimum package of benefits. They're not deciding "who gets what kind of care and when" beyond helping folks to gain access to decent insurance.

Meanwhile, your 15 bureaucrats are limited to Medicare, a federal health insurance program. They don't get to decide "'appropriate health care treatments' for everyone"; they don't even get to decide that for Medicare beneficiaries. Benefits--and certainly specific courses of treatment--are well outside of their purview.

Yes......they are. You can spout all the liberal nonsense you want, but the facts of the matter are that obamacare will force many changes that will cause nothing but problems.....for doctors and patients alike. Many docs are now refusing to even see medicaid patients and most limit their practices to how many medicare patients they take on....or they plan to do so once obamacare is fully implemented.....because their reimbursement rates are horrendous (and will be cut another 27%!), the amount of paperwork involved to get paid is insane, and the amount of red tape involved to even get a medically necessary MRI approved can take several weeks that most doctors are so incredibly frustrated with the process that they just don't want to take on these patients anymore.

And if you think that medicare is spectacularly run, then clearly you don't have any real experience with it. The elderly often have problems finding good doctors to take them on as patients, hospital care is frequently substandard, medicare does not cover necessary medical equipment that many need to stay mobil, they force patients to accept the cheaper treatment even though it will cause worse problems and end up needing the more expensive treatment option in a few months and this causes unnecessary risk to life, the donut hole forces many elderly to choose between paying their electric bill/groceries or getting their medicine and many go without their medicine and they end up dying much earlier than necessary because of it, etc... Not only that, but many of you people are constantly telling people like me how great the VA system is and how we should just model our health care after them.......well, again, you clearly have no real experience with it.....the VA system is TERRIBLE!! Vets are waiting at least 2 years to get a disability claim processed, care is often substandard and sometimes deadly, records are constantly lost, etc.... And you know what? ALL of those programs have a bunch of rich bureaucrats sitting on their asses in an office making decisions about who gets what care, how much they will pay for that care, and where they can get that care......the very same shit obamacare will do. Everyone knows it....it's time you take your head out of your ass and admit it.

 

[Papageorgio]

Of course...only the 1% should have access to the best health care. Mitt would agree with that.

That is how Obamacare is set up, why do you think Congress is exempt from it.

 

[daveman]

OK. So we will fix that. A single payer universal health care system. Now, what is your beef with that?

1. It's unconstitutional -- not that the left cares about that.

2. It's been a failure worldwide -- not that the left cares about that.

Still will not answer my post, will ya, nor will any repubs so far to 2 different threads, coward.

Maybe you should threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue.

 

[francoHFW]

Pubcrappe universe!

 

[daveman]

OK. So we will fix that. A single payer universal health care system. Now, what is your beef with that?

1. It's unconstitutional -- not that the left cares about that.

2. It's been a failure worldwide -- not that the left cares about that.

As usual, you are wrong.

It IS Constitutional. The definition of "constitutional" is that our SCOTUS says its constitutional. Period.

...unless it says that the Second Amendment is an individual right. Right?

Universal health care is very successful, in our two states that currently have it, and in other countries that have it.

I'm sure you love to bitterly cling to that fantasy.

 

[francoHFW]

Luckily, you'll find out how deluded you are in 2014. In 2007, approval of all health systems were over 80%, whilein the US it was 34%. Now the dupes have raised that...for no reason but BS propaganda.

 

[Greenbeard]

Yes......they are. You can spout all the liberal nonsense you want, but the facts of the matter are that obamacare will force many changes that will cause nothing but problems.....for doctors and patients alike. Many docs are now refusing to even see medicaid patients and most limit their practices to how many medicare patients they take on....or they plan to do so once obamacare is fully implemented.....because their reimbursement rates are horrendous (and will be cut another 27%!), the amount of paperwork involved to get paid is insane, and the amount of red tape involved to even get a medically necessary MRI approved can take several weeks that most doctors are so incredibly frustrated with the process that they just don't want to take on these patients anymore.

Note that your arguments have completely shifted away from the (flawed) premise that private insurance has been taken over or is controlled by the government to a tirade against Medicare and Medicaid. Pointing out that Medicaid reimbursements in most states are too low (though primary care reimbursements in Medicaid are about to get a big boost nationwide) is very different than falsely asserting that the feds are telling your private insurer they can't offer coverage for some procedure. They're different subjects.

As for things like prior approvals, according to the AMA's annual report card for insurers, Medicare actually requires fewer prior approvals than private insurers that docs deal with:

And if you think that medicare is spectacularly run, then clearly you don't have any real experience with it. The elderly often have problems finding good doctors to take them on as patients, hospital care is frequently substandard, medicare does not cover necessary medical equipment that many need to stay mobil, they force patients to accept the cheaper treatment even though it will cause worse problems and end up needing the more expensive treatment option in a few months and this causes unnecessary risk to life, the donut hole forces many elderly to choose between paying their electric bill/groceries or getting their medicine and many go without their medicine and they end up dying much earlier than necessary because of it, etc...

First, the obvious point: Obamacare is closing the donut hole so critizing the donut hole as a way of criticizing Obamacare is nonsensical.

Second, we know that satisfaction with Medicare among beneficiaries is generally high.

Third, Medicare doesn't take cost effectiveness into account (to its discredit, actually):

Although the national coverage process considers clinical effectiveness, it generally does not consider clinical and cost information together—that is, cost effectiveness. Only in one instance—for a colorectal screening test—has CMS explicitly considered the cost effectiveness of a service when making a national coverage decision and setting the payment rate (see text box, p. 188).

But again, I'm not sure how the conversation got here or why this has become a referendum on Medicare and Medicaid. There's no government takeover of Medicare, as Medicare is already public insurance. My point above was that your characterization of what's happening to private insurance under Obamacare is false.

Not only that, but many of you people are constantly telling people like me how great the VA system is and how we should just model our health care after them.......well, again, you clearly have no real experience with it.....the VA system is TERRIBLE!! Vets are waiting at least 2 years to get a disability claim processed, care is often substandard and sometimes deadly, records are constantly lost, etc....

I haven't argued that we should model our system after the VHA but the available data--both on their quality outcomes and the satisfaction registered by users of that system--don't jibe with the picture you're trying to paint. Not only does the Veterans Health Administration score better on quality measures than virtually any other area of the American health care system (RAND, CBO), it rates considerably higher in patient satisfaction than do other payers or providers. In 2010, the VHA had an American Consumer Satisfaction Index score of 85 for inpatients at VA medical centers and 82 for outpatients at VA clinics. Hospitals nationwide had a rating of 73 that year and health insurance also had a rating of 73 (the highest scoring individual big name insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, scored a 70).

And you know what? ALL of those programs have a bunch of rich bureaucrats sitting on their asses in an office making decisions about who gets what care, how much they will pay for that care, and where they can get that care......the very same shit obamacare will do. Everyone knows it....it's time you take your head out of your ass and admit it.

You're specifically identifying long-standing forms of government insurance (Medicare and Medicaid) and a government delivery system for veterans as subject to decision-making by government officials. Well, yeah. They always have been.

But unless you're covered by Medicare or Medicaid or the VHA, I'm not sure what your point is; private insurance continues to be private insurance, and public insurance continues to be public insurance.

 

[Greenbeard]

Of course...only the 1% should have access to the best health care. Mitt would agree with that.

That is how Obamacare is set up, why do you think Congress is exempt from it.

Why do you think Congress is exempt from it? By which I mean they're not, yet you seem to think they are anyway.

 

[kiwiman127]

Obama's BIG LIE: "If you like your health-care plan, you keep your health-care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health-care plan."

Now I KNOW Obama thinks he KNOWS EVERYTHING.. after all he did say:
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
And he also said ""a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ...
and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama"

BUT Obama is NOT qualified as an actuary - a business professional who deals with the financial impact of risk and uncertainty.

So maybe for the rest of us IT will be helpful to understand why "Actuaries" CALL OBAMA on this big fat lie!

Health insurance premiums WILL INCREASE in cost by 141%!!!

Take the time like I did download from the Society of Actuaries SOA - Society of Actuaries - Design and Implementation Considerations of ACA Risk Mitigation Programs

This report: Design and Implementation Considerations of ACA Risk Mitigation Programs
pages 6 and 7 and you'll see Average annual premium of $2,553 will increase (These EXPERTS calculate!!) to in 2017 $6,158 an 141% increase!!!

Folks Obama knew SH...T ..about a lot of economic functions much less how health insurance works!
It became totally evident to me when HE and even other idiots continue to say there was a need to completely DESTROY health care as we know it
for a totally FALSE number that is proven to be NOT 50 million uninsured... BUT 8 million! i.e. 97.5% of the population will be totally disrupted!

Total lie!
1) 10 million of LIE 50 million uninsured ARE NOT CITIZENS!! Do you understand??
2) 14 million are ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!!
3) And the biggest fallacy... 18 million that ARE uninsured BUT DON"T WANT, Can afford (make over $50k!!) under 34, and pay out of pocket health services!

That leave 8 million truly that need insurance and THEY can be easily covered!

But Obama LIED that there are 50 million uninsured!
Obama LIED that you'll be able to keep your plan!

But to almost all you idiots that don't believe in FACTS but FICTION this is not for you!
This is for those that still voted for the IDIOT and realize that with 10 Democrat Senate seats up for grab in 2014.. OVER THROW OBAMACARE can be done!!!
It will happen folks because SUCH A BIG LIE will be shown in your paychecks soon!!!!

"14 million are ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!!" ???????????
Healthmyths, I have proved to you many times that people on Medicaid were counted has having insurance I pointed this out to you several times using this link to the actual report:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf
Again go to Page 19 of the actual report and you'll see those on Medicaid were counted as insured.
Why do continue to lie even after you have publicly been exposed lying about this fact at least four times. But that does that stop you? Nope. You just keep on lying your ass off.
Why would anyone even trust you on anything. You claim to run a business, I sure the hell would never trust anyone like you to do any kind of business with.
Oh and by the way, I have never supported Obamacare.

 

[g5000]

OK. So we will fix that. A single payer universal health care system. Now, what is your beef with that?

Gov't. control of healthcare, that is my beef. Totally against what this country is about.

government isn't controlling health "care", its' making sure people are insured.

you really are dumb.

Excuse me?

Individual mandate. That is big time Big Government control.

Forcing insurance companies to insure all comers. That is big time Big Government control.

The establishment of health insurance exchanges in each state, and deciding which insurance companies get listed on the exchanges, and which ones do not. That is a huge Big Government takeover.

ObamaCare also tried to force states to involuntarily increase their Medicaid rolls. That is huge Big Government control.

I think we see who is both blind and dumb here.



.

 

[healthmyths]

Obama's BIG LIE: "If you like your health-care plan, you keep your health-care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health-care plan."

Now I KNOW Obama thinks he KNOWS EVERYTHING.. after all he did say:
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
And he also said ""a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ...
and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama"

BUT Obama is NOT qualified as an actuary - a business professional who deals with the financial impact of risk and uncertainty.

So maybe for the rest of us IT will be helpful to understand why "Actuaries" CALL OBAMA on this big fat lie!

Health insurance premiums WILL INCREASE in cost by 141%!!!

Take the time like I did download from the Society of Actuaries SOA - Society of Actuaries - Design and Implementation Considerations of ACA Risk Mitigation Programs

This report: Design and Implementation Considerations of ACA Risk Mitigation Programs
pages 6 and 7 and you'll see Average annual premium of $2,553 will increase (These EXPERTS calculate!!) to in 2017 $6,158 an 141% increase!!!

Folks Obama knew SH...T ..about a lot of economic functions much less how health insurance works!
It became totally evident to me when HE and even other idiots continue to say there was a need to completely DESTROY health care as we know it
for a totally FALSE number that is proven to be NOT 50 million uninsured... BUT 8 million! i.e. 97.5% of the population will be totally disrupted!

Total lie!
1) 10 million of LIE 50 million uninsured ARE NOT CITIZENS!! Do you understand??
2) 14 million are ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!!
3) And the biggest fallacy... 18 million that ARE uninsured BUT DON"T WANT, Can afford (make over $50k!!) under 34, and pay out of pocket health services!

That leave 8 million truly that need insurance and THEY can be easily covered!

But Obama LIED that there are 50 million uninsured!
Obama LIED that you'll be able to keep your plan!

But to almost all you idiots that don't believe in FACTS but FICTION this is not for you!
This is for those that still voted for the IDIOT and realize that with 10 Democrat Senate seats up for grab in 2014.. OVER THROW OBAMACARE can be done!!!
It will happen folks because SUCH A BIG LIE will be shown in your paychecks soon!!!!

"14 million are ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!!" ???????????
Healthmyths, I have proved to you many times that people on Medicaid were counted has having insurance I pointed this out to you several times using this link to the actual report:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf
Again go to Page 19 of the actual report and you'll see those on Medicaid were counted as insured.
Why do continue to lie even after you have publicly been exposed lying about this fact at least four times. But that does that stop you? Nope. You just keep on lying your ass off.
Why would anyone even trust you on anything. You claim to run a business, I sure the hell would never trust anyone like you to do any kind of business with.
Oh and by the way, I have never supported Obamacare.

I really think we need to communicate BETTER!
I've said many times there are 14 million people counted by those people that say there are 50 million "uninsured" that ARE COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!
Source: In 2003, a BlueCross BlueShield Association study estimated that about 14 million of the uninsured were eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP
When all of these factors are put together, the 2003 BlueCross BlueShield study determined that 8.2 million Americans are actually without coverage for the long haul, because they are too poor to purchase health care but earn too much to qualify for government assistance.
The American Spectator : The Myth of the 46 Million

 

[francoHFW]

OP- totally discredited Pubspam...Sorry about theloss of your Medicare Advantage giveaway, but really, give it up...

 

[kiwiman127]

Obama's BIG LIE: "If you like your health-care plan, you keep your health-care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health-care plan."

Now I KNOW Obama thinks he KNOWS EVERYTHING.. after all he did say:
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
And he also said ""a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ...
and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama"

BUT Obama is NOT qualified as an actuary - a business professional who deals with the financial impact of risk and uncertainty.

So maybe for the rest of us IT will be helpful to understand why "Actuaries" CALL OBAMA on this big fat lie!

Health insurance premiums WILL INCREASE in cost by 141%!!!

Take the time like I did download from the Society of Actuaries SOA - Society of Actuaries - Design and Implementation Considerations of ACA Risk Mitigation Programs

This report: Design and Implementation Considerations of ACA Risk Mitigation Programs
pages 6 and 7 and you'll see Average annual premium of $2,553 will increase (These EXPERTS calculate!!) to in 2017 $6,158 an 141% increase!!!

Folks Obama knew SH...T ..about a lot of economic functions much less how health insurance works!
It became totally evident to me when HE and even other idiots continue to say there was a need to completely DESTROY health care as we know it
for a totally FALSE number that is proven to be NOT 50 million uninsured... BUT 8 million! i.e. 97.5% of the population will be totally disrupted!

Total lie!
1) 10 million of LIE 50 million uninsured ARE NOT CITIZENS!! Do you understand??
2) 14 million are ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!!
3) And the biggest fallacy... 18 million that ARE uninsured BUT DON"T WANT, Can afford (make over $50k!!) under 34, and pay out of pocket health services!

That leave 8 million truly that need insurance and THEY can be easily covered!

But Obama LIED that there are 50 million uninsured!
Obama LIED that you'll be able to keep your plan!

But to almost all you idiots that don't believe in FACTS but FICTION this is not for you!
This is for those that still voted for the IDIOT and realize that with 10 Democrat Senate seats up for grab in 2014.. OVER THROW OBAMACARE can be done!!!
It will happen folks because SUCH A BIG LIE will be shown in your paychecks soon!!!!

"14 million are ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!!" ???????????
Healthmyths, I have proved to you many times that people on Medicaid were counted has having insurance I pointed this out to you several times using this link to the actual report:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf
Again go to Page 19 of the actual report and you'll see those on Medicaid were counted as insured.
Why do continue to lie even after you have publicly been exposed lying about this fact at least four times. But that does that stop you? Nope. You just keep on lying your ass off.
Why would anyone even trust you on anything. You claim to run a business, I sure the hell would never trust anyone like you to do any kind of business with.
Oh and by the way, I have never supported Obamacare.

I really think we need to communicate BETTER!
I've said many times there are 14 million people counted by those people that say there are 50 million "uninsured" that ARE COVERED BY MEDICAID!!!
Source: In 2003, a BlueCross BlueShield Association study estimated that about 14 million of the uninsured were eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP
When all of these factors are put together, the 2003 BlueCross BlueShield study determined that 8.2 million Americans are actually without coverage for the long haul, because they are too poor to purchase health care but earn too much to qualify for government assistance.
The American Spectator : The Myth of the 46 Million

A 2003 BCBS estimate? The American Spectator, a very rightwing biased resource? You have to be kidding.
The actual report you question is from 2008, which I previously posted for you at least four times, clearly states that those on Medicaid are included as covered by insurance when addressing who is and isn't covered.

 

[G.T.]

What a loser dude. Get a life...seriously

Wow... what a logical reasonable retort! That's it?
Confronted with FACTS like an Ostrich you stick your head in the sand and leave your aSS exposed! Now I know where the Democrat symbol comes from!!! Exposed Asses!

It was the deserved response. Your emotion-laced bitching and moaning about everything on a daily basis is sad, and nauseating.