Obamacare Mess!

[emilynghiem]

Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement
W A S H I N G T O N, Dec. 14
Michael J. Sniffen


The Healthcare Company-HCA, the nation’s largest for-profit hospital chain, agreed today to plead guilty to defrauding government health-care programs and will pay more than $840 million in criminal fines, civil penalties and damages.

The agreement reached after a seven-year federal investigation triggered by private whistleblowers is the largest government fraud settlement ever negotiated by the Justice Department.

The company agreed to cooperate with a continuing investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno said could still produce criminal charges against individuals in what Deputy Assistant FBI Director Thomas Kubic called “one of the FBI’s highest priority white-collar crime investigations.”

The agreement did not settle civil allegations that HCA unlawfully charged the government for the costs of running its hospitals and that it paid kickbacks to doctors so they would refer Medicare and Medicaid patients to its facilities.

The two HCA units that pleaded guilty — Columbia Homecare Group Inc. and Columbia Management Companies Inc. — agreed to pay more than $95 million in criminal fines and were barred from further participation in federal health-care programs.

Separately, HCA agreed to pay $745 million in civil penalties for its alleged false billing practices — a figure negotiated last spring but not finalized until the criminal settlement was announced today.

Reno: Fraud Hurts

“Health care fraud impacts every American citizen,” Reno told a news conference. “If you overbill the U.S. taxpayer, then we are going to make you pay it back and then some.”

She said it was the largest health-care fraud investigation in history, involving 30 U.S. attorney’s offices, 22 FBI field offices, inspectors general from the Health and Human Service Department and the Office of Personnel Management, Defense Department investigators and state fraud units.

HCA co-founder and chief executive Thomas Frist Jr., the brother of U.S. Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said from the company’s Nashville headquarters: “Today’s action represents one of the last steps needed to put the Columbia investigation behind us and allows us to move forward, maintaining our focus on providing quality patient care.”

Frist ousted Richard L. Scott as chief executive in July 1997 and began a restructuring of the company. HCA got out of the home health-care business and sold or consolidated more than 100 hospitals. The chain currently has about 200 hospitals.
Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement - ABC News

The above is for-profit from 2001

89 Of U.s. Hospitals Found Double-billing For Inpatient Care The Justice Department Has Demanded Refunds To Medicare And Patients. At Issue Are Tests Given During The 72 Hours Before Admission. - Philly.com

CLINIC STING NETS 18 Russian mob in 3M insurance scam feds say - NY Daily News

Hospice Patients Alliance - hospice fraud hospice scams and how to avoid them

This is just the level of fraud before. Note that when healthcare started moving towards for profit that the investors came before patients. Still do. But, those for profit hospitals and medical care could police their own, amiright? Profit over people. Choosing your own doctor? Lost that with the health care reform in the 90s. It's called managed care. HPOs, PPOs, POS.

Lobbied for by...........ding ding ding.......the insurance companies.


So, 95% of people had insurance through the workforce in 1978 and that declined to 14% by 1998. Lower income people couldn't get access to it. People were deliberately cut off at 35 hours so that they couldn't acquire the crap ass insurance that was carried. Two jobs and sometimes three jobs were necessary to make ends meet. This of course put them over the line to qualify for aid or even the sliding scale fee. So, it cost $80 to walk into the door of a clinic. Could not get testing or pay for a prescription.

Side note: What is really fun is listening to people recognize the ability to negotiate with larger groups of people and then trash unions. Hi-larious. Fun stuff.

And watch out for what's next. Kids not able to get that testing? Watch them shut down satellite offices for clinics in the health departments and send the nurses out to the school. They won't bat an eye. You won't either.

Would you like to learn about medicaid divorces?

How is this news?

Being a Democrat, I face the criticisms all the time:
If you KNOW the health care system is corrupt, the public school system,
the public housing system, WHY KEEP GIVING MORE MONEY AND MORE CONTROL to them
when there isn't adequate CHECK on "pseudo-govt" institutions
that mix public with private and CREATE these disasters. like duh!

Please see my previous post.
Republicans blame Democrats for setting up a failed system so they won't support that,
while Democrats blame Republicans for making it fail by NOT supporting it.

If you don't agree to support it, then don't use govt for that.
And then whatever you do set up, will have support of everyone to work!
Is that so foreign?
The idea that if everyone is behind something, then they'l help make it work,
but if they don't believe in something you can't force it on them.

Why not stick to what all people agree will work and define/limit
government to reflect the WILL or CONSENT of the PEOPLE.

I guess that just makes too much sense, and can't be twisted around and sold for votes....

Cut the shit. You're not a democrat. You're a whatever is useful at the moment.

Medical care is profit driven.

Point? Do think doctors, nurses, and scientists, working in the medical field should work for free?

That misses the mark. In fact, it distorts the picture.

The question is........do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

We have always had a mixed market economy.

Are you actually asking me if it should be legal to have private investments in health care improvements and research?

Government's job is to break up monopolies on things like health care, not BECOME the monopoly.

I'm asking you, do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

Your strawman is nonsensical. It is equivalent to asking if picking one's nose should be decided by investors.

Google translation: NO

 

[eagle1462010]

Actually her facts are SPOT ON with what I've seen............Which is why I posted on this thread.........I would imagine since she's in the business that she has already forgotten more than you ever have known. What makes you more qualified than her on this issue?

As I've already said her posts are right down the line with what I experienced.

And your only facts posted, even though this is an opinionated site, is that you want Universal Health Care and nothing else.........

You haven't commented on the dark side of Obamacare, and haven't disputed anything.

My new insurance is crap compared to what I had even though I paid less overall..........But when I go to the Doctors office IT'S ON ME.........As its got HIGH DEDUCTS that must be met before 1 cent paid.

THIS IS A FACT............It is in the Law, and is exactly what she was saying.

What is this Eagle: An illegal immigrant's hospital bill is written off as "charity". American citizens can lose their homes over high medical bills, illegal immigrants are paying for their homes outright. They can well afford to as they pay no taxes! Where is the outrage!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh? What is that?

What is this Eagle: Medical Assistance was not created to be a way of life!

Huh? What is that?

I would like a show of hands of people who have one insurance card that is combined as a prescription card? I would like a show of hands of the number of people who run their insurance cards like a debit card every time you go to a doctor's office. She's full of shit. Doctor's aren't not getting the machines because she is lying through her teeth.

Oh, you don't know about that? You should. Your daughter was taken to the doctor's office remember all of that?

The deductible is high. I acknowledged that in post number 45. The rest of your posts I have no reason to believe. I think you are just stringing that along. There is zero reason to believe that you are telling the truth about anything else.

The bitch of it? I'm not even happy with Obamacare. I told you that before. But, you got nothing. Had nothing before it. Have no damn reason to get off your ass to find another solution.

BS

I was at work when my daughter went to the Doc. My Wife took her because she was going as well with a sinus infection. They make sure to take the card...........as far as an atm............don't know because I didn't see that..........It's possible they have a machine and I'm going to google at little for it.

At the hospital pharmacy, they entered the data into the computer. Typed it. and then filled the prescription for my wife and I paid the bill.

About the illegal situation............For a long time they have gotten benefits by being in America. Which means they go to the hospital needing assistance they get it..........just as anybody else does in this country.....long before Obama was on any stage at all.

To the truth........issue...........I simply don't care if you believe me or not. I saw the OP and saw that she was in medical billing so I thought I'd engage.

The data I posted..........specify the site data and specifics and prove them a Lie.............I've seen you agree that the plans are high deducts............and I pointed out how are the poor gonna pay them when the bell tolls.............As the surgery with my wife wasn't gonna happen without $6,000 up front.....................

Is that a Lie................how would you even know............but if you know the law you know that's under the max per person deduct from Bronze and Silver.

Here..............then maybe...........this......will............help..............you.........out.

I....have the same...........issues.........with the insurance..........that you have.......

Again.............you have offered no fucking alternative. None.


In order to acquire a charity from a hospital you have to qualify for it. You don't choose. They choose. You have to hunt down the information, and find a form and apply. I asked these questions when I was trying to figure out how the hell the hospitals get around paying property taxes.

Still doesn't address hospital mergers or the insurance companies themselves.

So..........sorry about your little situation...............but, you............don't have............any viable solutions.

Let............me..........make..........this .............clear...............I...........had..............Insurance.........before.........obamacare............but..........got...........priced.......out.............of.............it...............by.............obamacare...............that.............option............was......................gone..............because.............the...........rate.............went............through............the...........roof...............

Little situation I have makes your position suck............as you defend something that damaged a lot of people...............and some of the solutions offered by the GOP would have lowered my insurance at work with tax credits TO ALL GROUPS............and increasing funding for high risk pools.............It would have allowed or smaller company to POOL with other companies giving us bargaining power for lower rates...........

That would have lowered my insurance via tax credits..........and allowed us to negotiate better rates................This was on the table during the debate.

My position has not changed from the beginning. So, tell me.............what position do I have?

And your position is Universal Care...............Which is a strongly left leaning position.

My position is that both sides of the equation are right and wrong and that the final solution is somewhere in the middle...........Obamacare was passed through the tyranny of a temporary super majority. While it was being passed the people of this country were not for it, and our Reps are supposed to support the WILL OF THE PEOPLE........

Of course neither side does anymore.........They only really care about who lines their pockets. This law was written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies................which is why they didn't bitch so much during this..................You have said the same......and Obamacare is causing a lot of damned problems that shouldn't have happened..............The left has denied these problems and say,"WELL IT SUCKED BEFORE TOO.........."

DISIR.......has basically said the same.............IT SUCKED BEFORE AND SUCKS NOW.....DEAL WITH IT..........

If all our Congress and Gov't is coming up with for solutions is IT SUCKS then we need to fire ALL OF THEM..........but that isn't happening is it?

MY STANCE.............REPEAL REPLACE OBAMACARE..............With a TRUE COMPROMISE BILL...........

If not, then all this talk will lead to nothing more than destructive policies DESIGNED TO DESTROY SO THE WET DREAM OF UNIVERSAL CARE WILL BE THE ONLY SOLUTION.

In a NUT SHELL..............the same ASSHOLES who burned down the house are here to fix it and save us all................with all the answers................and dumb asses will believe them..............

 

[eagle1462010]

Now to the BS comment DISIR stated about Unions............I live in a right to work state.............and allowing NON UNION companies to pool together is the same DAMNED BENEFIT OF UNIONS...............but that in NO WAY means these companies would GO UNION to try and get better deals for their employees............It would give the same bargaining power as Unions.........without being a Union..........

Unions were good in the early years..............then THEIR GREED pushed the cost of labor through the roof forcing the companies to restructure, OR MOVE.............The Unions inflated their wages and benefits so high they cost themselves their jobs...................

DETROIT is the SHINING EXAMPLE OF A CITY BEING RUN BY THE ASS PARTY..............1.4 million have left the destruction leaving a 800,000 still there.................but hey..............there is a 2 for 1 sale on houses there..................ENJOY the UTOPIA OF LIBERAL LAND.

 

[eagle1462010]

The high risk pools to take the high dollar medical treatment out of the equation was a good idea and still is a good idea...............It is basically the same as Hurricane Insurance high risk pools................Higher deducts, but at least your covered for most without financially destroying yourselves.

Obamacare in at least the BRONZE and SILVER is basically creating HIGH RISK POOLS FOR ALL..............

Which in turn screwed those who already had coverage.....................In this way trying to PRICE OUT those that had insurance even though the premiums are high...............

TORT REFORM.................NADDA..................Dems can't stand it, but Malpractice Insurance is a major cost to hospitals and Doctors............making the prices higher..........tort reform doesn't mean you can't sue when they screw up..........It limits the overall awards past what you would get on normal damages to prevent massive awards that also drives up costs................Written properly, it can limit Lawyers from taking all the money from the people that got hosed in malpractice.....................So the people get most of the money instead of ambulance chasing lawyers...............

There were and are options on the table that could be adjusted to THE MIDDLE so both sides will get some of what they want and not the other side................Not IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY which is how Obamacare got passed.........................So it will be attacked until it goes away, and or destroys the system all together.

 

[Disir]

Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement
W A S H I N G T O N, Dec. 14
Michael J. Sniffen


The Healthcare Company-HCA, the nation’s largest for-profit hospital chain, agreed today to plead guilty to defrauding government health-care programs and will pay more than $840 million in criminal fines, civil penalties and damages.

The agreement reached after a seven-year federal investigation triggered by private whistleblowers is the largest government fraud settlement ever negotiated by the Justice Department.

The company agreed to cooperate with a continuing investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno said could still produce criminal charges against individuals in what Deputy Assistant FBI Director Thomas Kubic called “one of the FBI’s highest priority white-collar crime investigations.”

The agreement did not settle civil allegations that HCA unlawfully charged the government for the costs of running its hospitals and that it paid kickbacks to doctors so they would refer Medicare and Medicaid patients to its facilities.

The two HCA units that pleaded guilty — Columbia Homecare Group Inc. and Columbia Management Companies Inc. — agreed to pay more than $95 million in criminal fines and were barred from further participation in federal health-care programs.

Separately, HCA agreed to pay $745 million in civil penalties for its alleged false billing practices — a figure negotiated last spring but not finalized until the criminal settlement was announced today.

Reno: Fraud Hurts

“Health care fraud impacts every American citizen,” Reno told a news conference. “If you overbill the U.S. taxpayer, then we are going to make you pay it back and then some.”

She said it was the largest health-care fraud investigation in history, involving 30 U.S. attorney’s offices, 22 FBI field offices, inspectors general from the Health and Human Service Department and the Office of Personnel Management, Defense Department investigators and state fraud units.

HCA co-founder and chief executive Thomas Frist Jr., the brother of U.S. Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said from the company’s Nashville headquarters: “Today’s action represents one of the last steps needed to put the Columbia investigation behind us and allows us to move forward, maintaining our focus on providing quality patient care.”

Frist ousted Richard L. Scott as chief executive in July 1997 and began a restructuring of the company. HCA got out of the home health-care business and sold or consolidated more than 100 hospitals. The chain currently has about 200 hospitals.
Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement - ABC News

The above is for-profit from 2001

89 Of U.s. Hospitals Found Double-billing For Inpatient Care The Justice Department Has Demanded Refunds To Medicare And Patients. At Issue Are Tests Given During The 72 Hours Before Admission. - Philly.com

CLINIC STING NETS 18 Russian mob in 3M insurance scam feds say - NY Daily News

Hospice Patients Alliance - hospice fraud hospice scams and how to avoid them

This is just the level of fraud before. Note that when healthcare started moving towards for profit that the investors came before patients. Still do. But, those for profit hospitals and medical care could police their own, amiright? Profit over people. Choosing your own doctor? Lost that with the health care reform in the 90s. It's called managed care. HPOs, PPOs, POS.

Lobbied for by...........ding ding ding.......the insurance companies.


So, 95% of people had insurance through the workforce in 1978 and that declined to 14% by 1998. Lower income people couldn't get access to it. People were deliberately cut off at 35 hours so that they couldn't acquire the crap ass insurance that was carried. Two jobs and sometimes three jobs were necessary to make ends meet. This of course put them over the line to qualify for aid or even the sliding scale fee. So, it cost $80 to walk into the door of a clinic. Could not get testing or pay for a prescription.

Side note: What is really fun is listening to people recognize the ability to negotiate with larger groups of people and then trash unions. Hi-larious. Fun stuff.

And watch out for what's next. Kids not able to get that testing? Watch them shut down satellite offices for clinics in the health departments and send the nurses out to the school. They won't bat an eye. You won't either.

Would you like to learn about medicaid divorces?

How is this news?

Being a Democrat, I face the criticisms all the time:
If you KNOW the health care system is corrupt, the public school system,
the public housing system, WHY KEEP GIVING MORE MONEY AND MORE CONTROL to them
when there isn't adequate CHECK on "pseudo-govt" institutions
that mix public with private and CREATE these disasters. like duh!

Please see my previous post.
Republicans blame Democrats for setting up a failed system so they won't support that,
while Democrats blame Republicans for making it fail by NOT supporting it.

If you don't agree to support it, then don't use govt for that.
And then whatever you do set up, will have support of everyone to work!
Is that so foreign?
The idea that if everyone is behind something, then they'l help make it work,
but if they don't believe in something you can't force it on them.

Why not stick to what all people agree will work and define/limit
government to reflect the WILL or CONSENT of the PEOPLE.

I guess that just makes too much sense, and can't be twisted around and sold for votes....

Cut the shit. You're not a democrat. You're a whatever is useful at the moment.

Medical care is profit driven.

Point? Do think doctors, nurses, and scientists, working in the medical field should work for free?

That misses the mark. In fact, it distorts the picture.

The question is........do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

We have always had a mixed market economy.

Are you actually asking me if it should be legal to have private investments in health care improvements and research?

Government's job is to break up monopolies on things like health care, not BECOME the monopoly.

I'm asking you, do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

Your strawman is nonsensical. It is equivalent to asking if picking one's nose should be decided by investors.

Jeezuz H. Christ. I'm not going to take your answer and beat you with it.

Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement
W A S H I N G T O N, Dec. 14
Michael J. Sniffen


The Healthcare Company-HCA, the nation’s largest for-profit hospital chain, agreed today to plead guilty to defrauding government health-care programs and will pay more than $840 million in criminal fines, civil penalties and damages.

The agreement reached after a seven-year federal investigation triggered by private whistleblowers is the largest government fraud settlement ever negotiated by the Justice Department.

The company agreed to cooperate with a continuing investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno said could still produce criminal charges against individuals in what Deputy Assistant FBI Director Thomas Kubic called “one of the FBI’s highest priority white-collar crime investigations.”

The agreement did not settle civil allegations that HCA unlawfully charged the government for the costs of running its hospitals and that it paid kickbacks to doctors so they would refer Medicare and Medicaid patients to its facilities.

The two HCA units that pleaded guilty — Columbia Homecare Group Inc. and Columbia Management Companies Inc. — agreed to pay more than $95 million in criminal fines and were barred from further participation in federal health-care programs.

Separately, HCA agreed to pay $745 million in civil penalties for its alleged false billing practices — a figure negotiated last spring but not finalized until the criminal settlement was announced today.

Reno: Fraud Hurts

“Health care fraud impacts every American citizen,” Reno told a news conference. “If you overbill the U.S. taxpayer, then we are going to make you pay it back and then some.”

She said it was the largest health-care fraud investigation in history, involving 30 U.S. attorney’s offices, 22 FBI field offices, inspectors general from the Health and Human Service Department and the Office of Personnel Management, Defense Department investigators and state fraud units.

HCA co-founder and chief executive Thomas Frist Jr., the brother of U.S. Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said from the company’s Nashville headquarters: “Today’s action represents one of the last steps needed to put the Columbia investigation behind us and allows us to move forward, maintaining our focus on providing quality patient care.”

Frist ousted Richard L. Scott as chief executive in July 1997 and began a restructuring of the company. HCA got out of the home health-care business and sold or consolidated more than 100 hospitals. The chain currently has about 200 hospitals.
Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement - ABC News

The above is for-profit from 2001

89 Of U.s. Hospitals Found Double-billing For Inpatient Care The Justice Department Has Demanded Refunds To Medicare And Patients. At Issue Are Tests Given During The 72 Hours Before Admission. - Philly.com

CLINIC STING NETS 18 Russian mob in 3M insurance scam feds say - NY Daily News

Hospice Patients Alliance - hospice fraud hospice scams and how to avoid them

This is just the level of fraud before. Note that when healthcare started moving towards for profit that the investors came before patients. Still do. But, those for profit hospitals and medical care could police their own, amiright? Profit over people. Choosing your own doctor? Lost that with the health care reform in the 90s. It's called managed care. HPOs, PPOs, POS.

Lobbied for by...........ding ding ding.......the insurance companies.


So, 95% of people had insurance through the workforce in 1978 and that declined to 14% by 1998. Lower income people couldn't get access to it. People were deliberately cut off at 35 hours so that they couldn't acquire the crap ass insurance that was carried. Two jobs and sometimes three jobs were necessary to make ends meet. This of course put them over the line to qualify for aid or even the sliding scale fee. So, it cost $80 to walk into the door of a clinic. Could not get testing or pay for a prescription.

Side note: What is really fun is listening to people recognize the ability to negotiate with larger groups of people and then trash unions. Hi-larious. Fun stuff.

And watch out for what's next. Kids not able to get that testing? Watch them shut down satellite offices for clinics in the health departments and send the nurses out to the school. They won't bat an eye. You won't either.

Would you like to learn about medicaid divorces?

How is this news?

Being a Democrat, I face the criticisms all the time:
If you KNOW the health care system is corrupt, the public school system,
the public housing system, WHY KEEP GIVING MORE MONEY AND MORE CONTROL to them
when there isn't adequate CHECK on "pseudo-govt" institutions
that mix public with private and CREATE these disasters. like duh!

Please see my previous post.
Republicans blame Democrats for setting up a failed system so they won't support that,
while Democrats blame Republicans for making it fail by NOT supporting it.

If you don't agree to support it, then don't use govt for that.
And then whatever you do set up, will have support of everyone to work!
Is that so foreign?
The idea that if everyone is behind something, then they'l help make it work,
but if they don't believe in something you can't force it on them.

Why not stick to what all people agree will work and define/limit
government to reflect the WILL or CONSENT of the PEOPLE.

I guess that just makes too much sense, and can't be twisted around and sold for votes....

Cut the shit. You're not a democrat. You're a whatever is useful at the moment.

Medical care is profit driven.

Point? Do think doctors, nurses, and scientists, working in the medical field should work for free?

That misses the mark. In fact, it distorts the picture.

The question is........do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

We have always had a mixed market economy.

Are you actually asking me if it should be legal to have private investments in health care improvements and research?

Government's job is to break up monopolies on things like health care, not BECOME the monopoly.

I'm asking you, do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

If you're asking me
I think individuals should decide their own health care
and if they go through a collective system they should choose that also, similar to choosing a church, religion or belief.

health care rights is a belief
free market choice is a belief

So if people BELIEVE in going through business or investors that's THEIR choice

that shouldn't affect people who want to go through nonprofits, or through medical school programs.

Do you see where we are going wrong?

It's like taking one approach, like Christianity or Catholics vs. Protestants,
and trying to mandate that for everyone in the country.

We wouldn't dare mandate a global policy if it was for religious beliefs.

So why don't we recognize and separate political beliefs just as equally?

We know that liberal Democrats are .like a separate denomination from conservative Republican.
We wouldn't force Baptists and Catholics to fund each other's programs or be MANDATED to follow
them or be FINED.

Why are we doing this to ourselves over health care?

If we recognize the choice of abortion and reproductive freedom should be free
of "other people's religious or political beliefs"
why aren't we respecting the choice of health care?

Why are we INSISTING on mandating it all one way

If we don't want INVESTORS deciding for us
why would we want POLITICIANS and LOBBIES deciding for us.

Do you see everyone's complaining about the same intrusion
but f rom different angles and groups they dont trust?

So why not LET people choose their affiliations and how to manage their helath care.

I propose to set it up and separate by PARTY so you can have collective bargaining
and organizational power, but without imposing on people's beliefs if you stay within your own affiliation.

You don't have to fight these battles if you stay within your own group.
So why not separate and delegate out, and quit trying to make it one way.

We don't have a national religion mandated by govt, because we trust people
to exercise their own faith. Why can't we do the same with health care, and respect religious freedom with
liberty, free market and health care choices since these are so individualized and cross into areas of
people beliefs anyway. that's why everyone keeps fighting, because govt is not supposed to go there!

Now to the BS comment DISIR stated about Unions............I live in a right to work state.............and allowing NON UNION companies to pool together is the same DAMNED BENEFIT OF UNIONS...............but that in NO WAY means these companies would GO UNION to try and get better deals for their employees............It would give the same bargaining power as Unions.........without being a Union..........

Unions were good in the early years..............then THEIR GREED pushed the cost of labor through the roof forcing the companies to restructure, OR MOVE.............The Unions inflated their wages and benefits so high they cost themselves their jobs...................

DETROIT is the SHINING EXAMPLE OF A CITY BEING RUN BY THE ASS PARTY..............1.4 million have left the destruction leaving a 800,000 still there.................but hey..............there is a 2 for 1 sale on houses there..................ENJOY the UTOPIA OF LIBERAL LAND.

30 years of stagnant wages says that no, unions did not push the cost of labor through the roof. Further, you won't be able to compete with the$2.00 an hour jobs moving a company overseas or into Mexico.

That's propaganda. You know it. I know. Everyone else knows it.

 

[Disir]

What is this Eagle: An illegal immigrant's hospital bill is written off as "charity". American citizens can lose their homes over high medical bills, illegal immigrants are paying for their homes outright. They can well afford to as they pay no taxes! Where is the outrage!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh? What is that?

What is this Eagle: Medical Assistance was not created to be a way of life!

Huh? What is that?

I would like a show of hands of people who have one insurance card that is combined as a prescription card? I would like a show of hands of the number of people who run their insurance cards like a debit card every time you go to a doctor's office. She's full of shit. Doctor's aren't not getting the machines because she is lying through her teeth.

Oh, you don't know about that? You should. Your daughter was taken to the doctor's office remember all of that?

The deductible is high. I acknowledged that in post number 45. The rest of your posts I have no reason to believe. I think you are just stringing that along. There is zero reason to believe that you are telling the truth about anything else.

The bitch of it? I'm not even happy with Obamacare. I told you that before. But, you got nothing. Had nothing before it. Have no damn reason to get off your ass to find another solution.

BS

I was at work when my daughter went to the Doc. My Wife took her because she was going as well with a sinus infection. They make sure to take the card...........as far as an atm............don't know because I didn't see that..........It's possible they have a machine and I'm going to google at little for it.

At the hospital pharmacy, they entered the data into the computer. Typed it. and then filled the prescription for my wife and I paid the bill.

About the illegal situation............For a long time they have gotten benefits by being in America. Which means they go to the hospital needing assistance they get it..........just as anybody else does in this country.....long before Obama was on any stage at all.

To the truth........issue...........I simply don't care if you believe me or not. I saw the OP and saw that she was in medical billing so I thought I'd engage.

The data I posted..........specify the site data and specifics and prove them a Lie.............I've seen you agree that the plans are high deducts............and I pointed out how are the poor gonna pay them when the bell tolls.............As the surgery with my wife wasn't gonna happen without $6,000 up front.....................

Is that a Lie................how would you even know............but if you know the law you know that's under the max per person deduct from Bronze and Silver.

Here..............then maybe...........this......will............help..............you.........out.

I....have the same...........issues.........with the insurance..........that you have.......

Again.............you have offered no fucking alternative. None.


In order to acquire a charity from a hospital you have to qualify for it. You don't choose. They choose. You have to hunt down the information, and find a form and apply. I asked these questions when I was trying to figure out how the hell the hospitals get around paying property taxes.

Still doesn't address hospital mergers or the insurance companies themselves.

So..........sorry about your little situation...............but, you............don't have............any viable solutions.

Let............me..........make..........this .............clear...............I...........had..............Insurance.........before.........obamacare............but..........got...........priced.......out.............of.............it...............by.............obamacare...............that.............option............was......................gone..............because.............the...........rate.............went............through............the...........roof...............

Little situation I have makes your position suck............as you defend something that damaged a lot of people...............and some of the solutions offered by the GOP would have lowered my insurance at work with tax credits TO ALL GROUPS............and increasing funding for high risk pools.............It would have allowed or smaller company to POOL with other companies giving us bargaining power for lower rates...........

That would have lowered my insurance via tax credits..........and allowed us to negotiate better rates................This was on the table during the debate.

My position has not changed from the beginning. So, tell me.............what position do I have?

And your position is Universal Care...............Which is a strongly left leaning position.

My position is that both sides of the equation are right and wrong and that the final solution is somewhere in the middle...........Obamacare was passed through the tyranny of a temporary super majority. While it was being passed the people of this country were not for it, and our Reps are supposed to support the WILL OF THE PEOPLE........

Of course neither side does anymore.........They only really care about who lines their pockets. This law was written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies................which is why they didn't bitch so much during this..................You have said the same......and Obamacare is causing a lot of damned problems that shouldn't have happened..............The left has denied these problems and say,"WELL IT SUCKED BEFORE TOO.........."

DISIR.......has basically said the same.............IT SUCKED BEFORE AND SUCKS NOW.....DEAL WITH IT..........

If all our Congress and Gov't is coming up with for solutions is IT SUCKS then we need to fire ALL OF THEM..........but that isn't happening is it?

MY STANCE.............REPEAL REPLACE OBAMACARE..............With a TRUE COMPROMISE BILL...........

If not, then all this talk will lead to nothing more than destructive policies DESIGNED TO DESTROY SO THE WET DREAM OF UNIVERSAL CARE WILL BE THE ONLY SOLUTION.

In a NUT SHELL..............the same ASSHOLES who burned down the house are here to fix it and save us all................with all the answers................and dumb asses will believe them..............

My stance is not deal with it. I have repeatedly asked you for what else you have. Your stance is revert back to the old system because it didn't personally effect you then. You didn't have to pay attention to it.

Universal health care is the only solution. True Compromise is a nifty slogan but does not adequately explain what is necessary.

If all our Congress and Gov't is coming up with for solutions is IT SUCKS then we need to fire ALL OF THEM..........but that isn't happening is it?

The moment that you turn your back on these folks and say........you come up with a plan, I dunno, come up with one, then not a damn thing gets solved.

See this:
Federal Trade Commission v. Phoebe Putney Health System Inc. 11-1160 LII Supreme Court Bulletin LII Legal Information Institute

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/justices-back-ftc-on-blocking-hospital-mergers.html?_r=0

In Phoebe Putney Hospital Merger Case FTC Rejects Proposed Consent Agreement Parties to Return to Litigation Federal Trade Commission

That boils down to state law. The government does what you tell it to or doesn't as the case may be.

So, another question that I have asked in the thread is: what were the other plans put in action as a response from those states that wanted to choose their own path?

 

[Disir]

Amazing that ANY American believes our totally corrupt fed gov could effectively reform HC.

One has to be really stupid to believe such foolishness.

One has to be really stupid to believe that it was working out prior to Obamacare.

Other than government run medicaid, and government run medicare, and government run veterans health care, and government mismanagement of insurance companies, and government mandates on hospitals to provide free care to illegals and people who don't want to pay and charge paying customers extra to cover those costs... what was wrong with our HC?

Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement
W A S H I N G T O N, Dec. 14
Michael J. Sniffen


The Healthcare Company-HCA, the nation’s largest for-profit hospital chain, agreed today to plead guilty to defrauding government health-care programs and will pay more than $840 million in criminal fines, civil penalties and damages.

The agreement reached after a seven-year federal investigation triggered by private whistleblowers is the largest government fraud settlement ever negotiated by the Justice Department.

The company agreed to cooperate with a continuing investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno said could still produce criminal charges against individuals in what Deputy Assistant FBI Director Thomas Kubic called “one of the FBI’s highest priority white-collar crime investigations.”

The agreement did not settle civil allegations that HCA unlawfully charged the government for the costs of running its hospitals and that it paid kickbacks to doctors so they would refer Medicare and Medicaid patients to its facilities.

The two HCA units that pleaded guilty — Columbia Homecare Group Inc. and Columbia Management Companies Inc. — agreed to pay more than $95 million in criminal fines and were barred from further participation in federal health-care programs.

Separately, HCA agreed to pay $745 million in civil penalties for its alleged false billing practices — a figure negotiated last spring but not finalized until the criminal settlement was announced today.

Reno: Fraud Hurts

“Health care fraud impacts every American citizen,” Reno told a news conference. “If you overbill the U.S. taxpayer, then we are going to make you pay it back and then some.”

She said it was the largest health-care fraud investigation in history, involving 30 U.S. attorney’s offices, 22 FBI field offices, inspectors general from the Health and Human Service Department and the Office of Personnel Management, Defense Department investigators and state fraud units.

HCA co-founder and chief executive Thomas Frist Jr., the brother of U.S. Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said from the company’s Nashville headquarters: “Today’s action represents one of the last steps needed to put the Columbia investigation behind us and allows us to move forward, maintaining our focus on providing quality patient care.”

Frist ousted Richard L. Scott as chief executive in July 1997 and began a restructuring of the company. HCA got out of the home health-care business and sold or consolidated more than 100 hospitals. The chain currently has about 200 hospitals.
Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement - ABC News

The above is for-profit from 2001

89 Of U.s. Hospitals Found Double-billing For Inpatient Care The Justice Department Has Demanded Refunds To Medicare And Patients. At Issue Are Tests Given During The 72 Hours Before Admission. - Philly.com

CLINIC STING NETS 18 Russian mob in 3M insurance scam feds say - NY Daily News

Hospice Patients Alliance - hospice fraud hospice scams and how to avoid them

This is just the level of fraud before. Note that when healthcare started moving towards for profit that the investors came before patients. Still do. But, those for profit hospitals and medical care could police their own, amiright? Profit over people. Choosing your own doctor? Lost that with the health care reform in the 90s. It's called managed care. HPOs, PPOs, POS.

Lobbied for by...........ding ding ding.......the insurance companies.


So, 95% of people had insurance through the workforce in 1978 and that declined to 14% by 1998. Lower income people couldn't get access to it. People were deliberately cut off at 35 hours so that they couldn't acquire the crap ass insurance that was carried. Two jobs and sometimes three jobs were necessary to make ends meet. This of course put them over the line to qualify for aid or even the sliding scale fee. So, it cost $80 to walk into the door of a clinic. Could not get testing or pay for a prescription.

Side note: What is really fun is listening to people recognize the ability to negotiate with larger groups of people and then trash unions. Hi-larious. Fun stuff.

And watch out for what's next. Kids not able to get that testing? Watch them shut down satellite offices for clinics in the health departments and send the nurses out to the school. They won't bat an eye. You won't either.

Would you like to learn about medicaid divorces?

How is this news?

Being a Democrat, I face the criticisms all the time:
If you KNOW the health care system is corrupt, the public school system,
the public housing system, WHY KEEP GIVING MORE MONEY AND MORE CONTROL to them
when there isn't adequate CHECK on "pseudo-govt" institutions
that mix public with private and CREATE these disasters. like duh!

Please see my previous post.
Republicans blame Democrats for setting up a failed system so they won't support that,
while Democrats blame Republicans for making it fail by NOT supporting it.

If you don't agree to support it, then don't use govt for that.
And then whatever you do set up, will have support of everyone to work!
Is that so foreign?
The idea that if everyone is behind something, then they'l help make it work,
but if they don't believe in something you can't force it on them.

Why not stick to what all people agree will work and define/limit
government to reflect the WILL or CONSENT of the PEOPLE.

I guess that just makes too much sense, and can't be twisted around and sold for votes....

Emily. I love you. I do try. But, you don't really say much.

The Republicans are not victims. They are not some little persecuted group.


How many states refused to expand Medicaid? I got five that says that by the time we end this conversation the responsibility meme comes out along with the free market meme.

 

[RKMBrown]

How is this news?

Being a Democrat, I face the criticisms all the time:
If you KNOW the health care system is corrupt, the public school system,
the public housing system, WHY KEEP GIVING MORE MONEY AND MORE CONTROL to them
when there isn't adequate CHECK on "pseudo-govt" institutions
that mix public with private and CREATE these disasters. like duh!

Please see my previous post.
Republicans blame Democrats for setting up a failed system so they won't support that,
while Democrats blame Republicans for making it fail by NOT supporting it.

If you don't agree to support it, then don't use govt for that.
And then whatever you do set up, will have support of everyone to work!
Is that so foreign?
The idea that if everyone is behind something, then they'l help make it work,
but if they don't believe in something you can't force it on them.

Why not stick to what all people agree will work and define/limit
government to reflect the WILL or CONSENT of the PEOPLE.

I guess that just makes too much sense, and can't be twisted around and sold for votes....

Cut the shit. You're not a democrat. You're a whatever is useful at the moment.

Point? Do think doctors, nurses, and scientists, working in the medical field should work for free?

That misses the mark. In fact, it distorts the picture.

The question is........do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

We have always had a mixed market economy.

Are you actually asking me if it should be legal to have private investments in health care improvements and research?

Government's job is to break up monopolies on things like health care, not BECOME the monopoly.

I'm asking you, do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

Your strawman is nonsensical. It is equivalent to asking if picking one's nose should be decided by investors.

Google translation: NO

Not, no. The question was a riddle, a campaign slogan. It made no sense. It was nonsensical.

One could try to assume what she meant by it, but she has "repeatedly" shown that if you assume what she means she'll just swing the opposite direction and deflect. IOW it appears she's just trolling. Or likes to speak in riddles.

 

[RKMBrown]

The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies. Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[jon_berzerk]

I work in medical billing so I see the end result of Obamacare. People did not read the fine print. Deductibles are running anywhere from $2,500 to $6,000. Because the deductibles are so high, patients are being made to pay for their MRIs, CTs and bloodwork up front so patients aren't getting their ordered tests and aren't returning for followup visits when they need them. Federal employees have the best healthcare available through Federal Blueshield. No deductibles! Low or no copays! Everyone in DC who composed Obamacare does not have to participate in it! I could not believe it when it passed! Doctors and diagnostic facilities have no choice but to collect all of their money up front because the patients are not going to pay their bills! It is forcing many doctorst to retire early. My healtcare plan does not have any coverage for preventative care! No annual GYN visit. No checkup, no preventative bloodwork screening! They will give me coverage for a stroke, heart attack or cancer treatments once they develop. I just can't check to see if I have a problem developing! Wake up America! I agree for their needs to be change but not this. EVERYONE SHOULD BE MADE TO PARTICIPATE IN OBAMACARE, INCLUDING OBAMA! They are our REPRESENTATIVES and should not be treated any differently than the general population. Gruber knew exactly what he was doing and should be made to participate in it as well. If an illegal alien goes into a hospital, their bill is written off as "charity". A legal, tax paying citizen of the U.S. will be made to pay their deductible and balance on their hospital bill or be sent to collections! Prisoners get their healthcare for free! Many who are getting insurance for free have no intention of returning to work! And remember America, your taxes are due on April 15th or the IRS is coming after you with penalties! If you are illegal, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties!

it is a mess

then when they lure in folks

they advertise that it is "free"

what a load of bullshit

someone has to pay for it

why cant liberals be honest just once !!!!!!

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Disir]

Cut the shit. You're not a democrat. You're a whatever is useful at the moment.
That misses the mark. In fact, it distorts the picture.

The question is........do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

We have always had a mixed market economy.

Are you actually asking me if it should be legal to have private investments in health care improvements and research?

Government's job is to break up monopolies on things like health care, not BECOME the monopoly.

I'm asking you, do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

Your strawman is nonsensical. It is equivalent to asking if picking one's nose should be decided by investors.

Google translation: NO

Not, no. The question was a riddle, a campaign slogan. It made no sense. It was nonsensical.

One could try to assume what she meant by it, but she has "repeatedly" shown that if you assume what she means she'll just swing the opposite direction and deflect. IOW it appears she's just trolling. Or likes to speak in riddles.

You make a shitty liar.

 

[Disir]

The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies. Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.

When was that again?

 

[RKMBrown]

The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies. Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.

When was that again?

As far back as you democrats are willing to compromise on. How about back to Clinton?

 

[Disir]

The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies. Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.

When was that again?

As far back as you democrats are willing to compromise on. How about back to Clinton?

I'm not a democrat. So, when was that again?

 

[Vigilante]

 

[RKMBrown]

The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies. Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.

When was that again?

As far back as you democrats are willing to compromise on. How about back to Clinton?

I'm not a democrat. So, when was that again?

You're not allowed to claim you are conservative or even independent after stating that you want a socialist system for health care. But you can admit you are a communist if you like. What part of back to Clinton went over your head?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

why cant liberals be honest just once !!!!!!

honesty: we're for more and more welfare entitlements of every kind in order to create a huge dependent voting constituency. In short, we don't care if we cripple people, we just want political power.

 

[Disir]

The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies. Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.

When was that again?

As far back as you democrats are willing to compromise on. How about back to Clinton?

I'm not a democrat. So, when was that again?

You're not allowed to claim you are conservative or even independent after stating that you want a socialist system for health care. But you can admit you are a communist if you like. What part of back to Clinton went over your head?

I am an independent.
You're just an idiot.

Missing the part were you repair the problems that were there before the health care reform.