ObamaCare Is Going To Burn The GOP To The Ground

[ClosedCaption]

The GOP fucked up. Big time. They were completely outgamed.

Yeah.

This whole mess has been an extension of the alternative universe the hard right created for itself in 2012, when they actually convinced themselves that all of the national polling experts were wrong and conservative talk radio was right. They all listened to Rush and Sean and Mark and created a bubble the likes of which I've never seen.

It's deja-fucking-vu. Here we are again. Here's how it has gone this time:

1. Led by conservative talk radio, the GOP completely missed the fact that the Dems had succeeded in making health care a national issue. So, while they were ignoring the whole thing, the Dems were busy putting together the massive pig known as the ACA.

2. Led by conservative talk radio, the GOP decided that they didn't need an alternative plan, all they needed to do was stop this one from becoming law. Of course, the Dems were able to push the pig through the slot with just enough Democrat votes. Worse, holy shit, the plan looks just like one put in place by a GOP governor. Who then ran against it for President. You really can't make this shit up.

3. Supported by conservative talk radio, the GOP has once again created an alternate universe in which it is ignoring all the polls that are blaming them for the shutdown and they actually believe they have the advantage here. I actually heard Limbaugh say earlier this week that the Dems are -- wait for it -- imploding.

The Republicans will say they have offered alternatives, but in the hundreds of teevee interviews I've seen them do, I've not once seen them refer to it by name. Not once. In this alternate universe, they have decided that this would be too much work.

Yup, they fucked this one up, and they're fucking up again by trying to put it back in the box after the fact.

.

 

[Claudette]

Once the true costs of ObamaCare become clear nobody is going to want to take credit for it, Winger. Voting for it is going to be so toxic the only ones who survive doing so are liberals from the "Kumbaya Coasts" like Nancy Pelosi and Charlie Rangel...the rest are going to have to explain to their Middle Class constituents why it is that their out of pocket costs have skyrocketed while their level of care has dropped off a cliff. Good luck on that!

I agree. From what I've been reading the out of pocket costs are through the roof.

The only winner will be those subsidized by we the taxpayer.

This thing is a disaster and as soon as they see just how much of a disaster it is the Dem idiots who passed it will be back tracking and trying to cover their asses big time.

Very good

Let's let it take effect and you can show me how wrong I am

My money says Republicans will stop calling it Obamacare

Your on. If its a winner I'll be very happy to appologize and praise how cheap and great it is to high heaven.

But if I'm right I expect the same from you.

Oh and it will always be Obamacare.

 

[auditor0007]

Obamacare will burn the DNC and obama's legacy to the ground. It is terrible legislation, put in place by corrupt congressional action, and written in a sealed room by unqualified dem staffers.

It will be the nail in the coffin for democrats. Try as you may, you will not be able to ram it up the asses of americans before they find out what it really is and what it will do to them and this country.

The fact that you post a thread like this only proves that you are scared shitless of what this is doing to democrats and obama.

Cons can and will continue to hold their ground, even as they are sent to slaughter. Everything that is happening currently, politically, is leading to the end of the Republican Party as an equal to the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is slowly but surely becoming the "ultra" conservative party that only caters to the beliefs of die hard tea party types or social conservatives. The problem is that those two groups only represent about 35% of Americans. Any moderate Republicans are leaving the party. By 2016, it is very likely that Dems will win back the House. By 2020, Republicans will no longer be a factor in Americans politics, at least at the national level. The real fight will take place between liberal and moderate Democrats with Independents siding with moderation most of the time. In other words, the Democratic Party will likely move a bit more to the center.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Obamacare will burn the DNC and obama's legacy to the ground. It is terrible legislation, put in place by corrupt congressional action, and written in a sealed room by unqualified dem staffers.

It will be the nail in the coffin for democrats. Try as you may, you will not be able to ram it up the asses of americans before they find out what it really is and what it will do to them and this country.

The fact that you post a thread like this only proves that you are scared shitless of what this is doing to democrats and obama.

Cons can and will continue to hold their ground, even as they are sent to slaughter. Everything that is happening currently, politically, is leading to the end of the Republican Party as an equal to the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is slowly but surely becoming the "ultra" conservative party that only caters to the beliefs of die hard tea party types or social conservatives. The problem is that those two groups only represent about 35% of Americans. Any moderate Republicans are leaving the party. By 2016, it is very likely that Dems will win back the House. By 2020, Republicans will no longer be a factor in Americans politics, at least at the national level. The real fight will take place between liberal and moderate Democrats with Independents siding with moderation most of the time. In other words, the Democratic Party will likely move a bit more to the center.

I've heard this exact sentiment for thirty years now however either side keeps winning over the other and our representation just becomes shittier.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I agree and can hardly fathom that ANYONE would want our Govt running the hc system in this country.

You speak of "the healthcare system" as if it is a single entity.
It is not.
It's more effort, but try to cast aside government-by-bumper-sticker and look at all the parts.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Obamacare will burn the DNC and obama's legacy to the ground. It is terrible legislation, put in place by corrupt congressional action, and written in a sealed room by unqualified dem staffers.

It will be the nail in the coffin for democrats. Try as you may, you will not be able to ram it up the asses of americans before they find out what it really is and what it will do to them and this country.

The fact that you post a thread like this only proves that you are scared shitless of what this is doing to democrats and obama.

Cons can and will continue to hold their ground, even as they are sent to slaughter. Everything that is happening currently, politically, is leading to the end of the Republican Party as an equal to the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is slowly but surely becoming the "ultra" conservative party that only caters to the beliefs of die hard tea party types or social conservatives. The problem is that those two groups only represent about 35% of Americans. Any moderate Republicans are leaving the party. By 2016, it is very likely that Dems will win back the House. By 2020, Republicans will no longer be a factor in Americans politics, at least at the national level. The real fight will take place between liberal and moderate Democrats with Independents siding with moderation most of the time. In other words, the Democratic Party will likely move a bit more to the center.

I agree with most of what you say but for two points.
The inevitibility ... I think the Republican brand is too valuable and I think cooler heads will prevail and preserve it.
If not, then I think what you say is right on target except for that last bit about the Democratic Party moving more to the center. With the GOP dead in the water, I don't see the impetus for that. I think it is just as likely that without the need to fight over the center with another party, they would be just as likely to drift left.

 

[Oldstyle]

Once the true costs of ObamaCare become clear nobody is going to want to take credit for it, Winger. Voting for it is going to be so toxic the only ones who survive doing so are liberals from the "Kumbaya Coasts" like Nancy Pelosi and Charlie Rangel...the rest are going to have to explain to their Middle Class constituents why it is that their out of pocket costs have skyrocketed while their level of care has dropped off a cliff. Good luck on that!

I agree. From what I've been reading the out of pocket costs are through the roof.

The only winner will be those subsidized by we the taxpayer.

This thing is a disaster and as soon as they see just how much of a disaster it is the Dem idiots who passed it will be back tracking and trying to cover their asses big time.

Very good

Let's let it take effect and you can show me how wrong I am

My money says Republicans will stop calling it Obamacare

Winger...if you want it to take twice as long and cost three times as much...let the government do it! Calling this legislation the "Affordable Care Act" is rather ironic...it's not going to be affordable for the taxpayers who will foot the bill for it...and it's going to seriously downgrade the level of care that people receive.

Trust me...we WILL be revisiting this...and I WILL be reminding you that I told you it was a lousy reform bill.

 

[g5000]

I agree. From what I've been reading the out of pocket costs are through the roof.

The only winner will be those subsidized by we the taxpayer.

This thing is a disaster and as soon as they see just how much of a disaster it is the Dem idiots who passed it will be back tracking and trying to cover their asses big time.

Very good

Let's let it take effect and you can show me how wrong I am

My money says Republicans will stop calling it Obamacare

Your on. If its a winner I'll be very happy to appologize and praise how cheap and great it is to high heaven.

It isn't going to be cheap. It is going to cost endless trillions. A high school dropout will get his insurance for free, and the rest of us will have to pay for it, or we will borrow the money from China/Japan/Great Britian/The Fed to do so.

Nevertheless, five years from now, ObamaCare will be very popular. Just look to the 74 percent of the people of Massachusetts who want RomneyCare to remain, with half saying it needs some fixes and adjustments. RomneyCare got off to a disastrous start, is still very expensive, but it is still wildly popular.

ObamaCare is going to be equally popular. Even though it could one day cost as much as all the tax expenditures we demand every year!

And it was Obama who invented the joke that Republicans will stop calling it ObamaCare because it will become so popular.

 

[Oldstyle]

Obamacare will burn the DNC and obama's legacy to the ground. It is terrible legislation, put in place by corrupt congressional action, and written in a sealed room by unqualified dem staffers.

It will be the nail in the coffin for democrats. Try as you may, you will not be able to ram it up the asses of americans before they find out what it really is and what it will do to them and this country.

The fact that you post a thread like this only proves that you are scared shitless of what this is doing to democrats and obama.

Cons can and will continue to hold their ground, even as they are sent to slaughter. Everything that is happening currently, politically, is leading to the end of the Republican Party as an equal to the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is slowly but surely becoming the "ultra" conservative party that only caters to the beliefs of die hard tea party types or social conservatives. The problem is that those two groups only represent about 35% of Americans. Any moderate Republicans are leaving the party. By 2016, it is very likely that Dems will win back the House. By 2020, Republicans will no longer be a factor in Americans politics, at least at the national level. The real fight will take place between liberal and moderate Democrats with Independents siding with moderation most of the time. In other words, the Democratic Party will likely move a bit more to the center.

You know what's amusing, Auditor? People like you keep talking about how "ultra" conservative the Republican Party has become...and yet every time they get together to nominate a Presidential candidate...the one that they select is the most moderate person running.

Then you talk about how the Democrats are moving to the center...when in fact, they nominated a Senator with one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate.

There's an amazing thing going on with the average liberal's "perception" of the world around them...

 

[PredFan]

Hear me out.

Our healthcare infrastructure is a Rube Goldberg hodgepodge of antiquated and slapdash pieces cadged together into a cartoonish mockery. For decades, the system has been dysfunctional and the result has been a rise in healthcare costs which has far outpaced inflation.

This is why Clinton tried to socialize medicine in the 90s, and this is why ObamaCare exists today. In between, when the GOP completely dominated all three branches of government, they did nothing about the problem. Nothing at all, except to glue on a massive and expensive new Goldbergian device (Medicare Part D) to buy the votes of seniors. I guess they were too busy doubling the national debt to bother with fixing healthcare.

When faced with a choice between the GOP's answer to the problem ("we aren't going to do fuck-all about it") and the Democratic Party's answer to the problem ("we are going let the government take it over"), the people decided time and again in the past few years that the Democrat's "something" was superior to the GOP's "nothing".

Even now, the GOP's answer is to offer nothing and to fight ObamaCare tooth and nail.

Well, here's the thing: ObamaCare offers federal subsidies for people earning less than 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) who buy their insurance through an exchange.

Quite a few red states are doing all they can to prevent their citizens from accessing these subsidies. This is a HUGE tactical error on their part.

When the citizens of a red state see the citizens of a neighboring state are getting actual dollars from the federal government to pay for their health insurance, and they see their own state government is keeping that cash away from their own hands, they are going to rise up in giant hordes and throw the bums out on their asses. They are going to turn all those red state legislatures into blue state legislatures.

And then those blue legislatures are going to redraw their Congressional district lines.

Here is another thing: Five years after RomneyCare was implemented in Massachusetts, 74 percent of the citizens polled said they wanted to keep RomneyCare around. A significant percentage (about half) said they wanted some changes made to it, but they did not want it repealed.

This is a very, very bad indicator for the GOP. Once ObamaCare gets off the ground, which it is in the process of doing right now, the people are going to find great favor with it, and anyone who stands in the way who has nothing else to offer is going to get steamrolled.

Ask around. Ask people what the GOP's plan for healthcare reform is. You will get nothing but shrugs. You will hear, "Repeal ObamaCare." But when you press for the GOP's plan to fix our broken system, you will get bupkis.

And that is why ObamaCare exists, and why it will succeed, and why the GOP is on the losing side.

The GOP fucked up. Big time. They were completely outgamed.

If the GOP is simply going to be progressive and no different than the DNC then let it burn.

 

[nodoginnafight]

If you think Obamacare is bad policy, then get the votes and repeal it.
The GOP has fought Obamacare tooth and nail and they have lost in every venue.
If America dislikes it so much then you should be able to run on repealing it and amass the votes you need to repeal it.

But if you just want to barter it's repeal by holding every minor function of government hostage - you are going to keep getting hammered over it.

Which is ok, too. If you feel strongly enough about it that you are willing to do whatever and accept the consequences - then go for it.

What really makes the GOP look stupid is trying to frame the issue as someone else's fault. Like folks are really gonna buy into the meme that this is Obama's fault for not giving back the votes (and SCOTUS opinion) he's already won.

And if this tactic proves successful, then what is to stop every other disgruntled minority from grinding government to a halt in order to demand response to THEIR agenda?

 

[Claudette]

Very good

Let's let it take effect and you can show me how wrong I am

My money says Republicans will stop calling it Obamacare

Your on. If its a winner I'll be very happy to appologize and praise how cheap and great it is to high heaven.

It isn't going to be cheap. It is going to cost endless trillions. A high school dropout will get his insurance for free, and the rest of us will have to pay for it, or we will borrow the money from China/Japan/Great Britian/The Fed to do so.

Nevertheless, five years from now, ObamaCare will be very popular. Just look to the 74 percent of the people of Massachusetts who want RomneyCare to remain, with half saying it needs some fixes and adjustments. RomneyCare got off to a disastrous start, is still very expensive, but it is still wildly popular.

ObamaCare is going to be equally popular. Even though it could one day cost as much as all the tax expenditures we demand every year!

And it was Obama who invented the joke that Republicans will stop calling it ObamaCare because it will become so popular.

Of course it would be popular with some. But I doubt with all.

Romeny care is also pulling in millions of Fed tax dollars to keep it running. Wonder how popular it would be if all the Fed tax dollars were no longer there and the citizens of MA had to make up the difference??

Also, if you tell people they can only take out exactly what they put into both SS and Medicare you would see the popularity for those programs drop like a rock. Its always nice when you can use the money of those coming behind you.

The only winners in the ACA are those we taxpayers will be forced to subsidize.

All those paying out of pocket costs and those paying higher premiums, not to mention the young folks forced to buy HC insurance they don't want or need, sure won't be thinking its so great.

 

[rightwinger]

The GOP has to end its fucking obsession with Obamacare

It is the Law, the Supreme Court backed it and no matter how many votes you call it will still be the law. Is it perfect? Far from it, but it is better than what we had

Over time, it will be improved

Do Republicans want to run on Ovbamacare in 2014? 2016? If they do, they will continue to lose. Time to move on boys......pass some GOP jobs bills, cut spending, balance the budget. You might even start patching your relationship with Hispanics

Fighting an old fight just because you lost gets you nowhere

Time to make the GOP relevant again

 

[Oldstyle]

I get a kick out of the new progressive mantra..."it's established law...so move on!"

It is law...it is in place...but as even you grudgingly admit, it's far from perfect...so why would anyone "move on" from a bill that their constituents elected them to overturn? What Barack Obama and so many other progressives can't seem to grasp is that a majority of Americans didn't want ObamaCare which is why Democrats were voted out of office in record numbers in 2010. The truth is...Barry, Harry and Nancy passed the ACA over the objections of a majority of the American people wishes.

This notion that because they managed to ram the ACA through before the voters had a chance to stop them means that it's suddenly "untouchable" is nonsense.

You talk about how the GOP should go back to passing jobs bills, cutting spending and balancing the budget? Dude, the House has been sending bills to the Senate since 2010 that would do ALL of those things and Harry Reid has tabled them. This government shutdown is taking place BECAUSE the Obama Administration has refused to do what Bill Clinton did when he got hammered in his first mid-term election...this President has refused to compromise...has refused to move to the center as Clinton did.

 

[Oldstyle]

And over time, ObamaCare will not be improved...it will be replaced with what Obama wanted in the first place...a single payer system run by the government.

I'm curious, Winger...will you be opposed to THAT when it happens?

 

[HenryBHough]

A single payer system will solve lots of problems.

For example, it'll save Social Security!

How?

Simple. Age limits on treatments. Need a pacemaker after 64? DENIED. Go die quickly so you don't burden the system. Savings from needless death alone will be enough to not only bail out Social Security but to allow Obama (by then "president for life") with a new Air Farce One every week.

 

[rightwinger]

I get a kick out of the new progressive mantra..."it's established law...so move on!"

It is law...it is in place...but as even you grudgingly admit, it's far from perfect...so why would anyone "move on" from a bill that their constituents elected them to overturn? What Barack Obama and so many other progressives can't seem to grasp is that a majority of Americans didn't want ObamaCare which is why Democrats were voted out of office in record numbers in 2010. The truth is...Barry, Harry and Nancy passed the ACA over the objections of a majority of the American people wishes.

This notion that because they managed to ram the ACA through before the voters had a chance to stop them means that it's suddenly "untouchable" is nonsense.

You talk about how the GOP should go back to passing jobs bills, cutting spending and balancing the budget? Dude, the House has been sending bills to the Senate since 2010 that would do ALL of those things and Harry Reid has tabled them. This government shutdown is taking place BECAUSE the Obama Administration has refused to do what Bill Clinton did when he got hammered in his first mid-term election...this President has refused to compromise...has refused to move to the center as Clinton did.

You don't like the law? Get the votes to repeal it. Better yet, get the votes to make it better. republicans LOST, multiple times. Obama got reelected.

But what do Republicans do when they can't get their way. Hold the country hostage......even there, they lost

 

[PredFan]

The GOP has to end its fucking obsession with Obamacare

It is the Law, the Supreme Court backed it and no matter how many votes you call it will still be the law. Is it perfect? Far from it, but it is better than what we had

Over time, it will be improved
Do Republicans want to run on Ovbamacare in 2014? 2016? If they do, they will continue to lose. Time to move on boys......pass some GOP jobs bills, cut spending, balance the budget. You might even start patching your relationship with Hispanics

Fighting an old fight just because you lost gets you nowhere

Time to make the GOP relevant again

Yeah, because the government has a history of making things better and more efficient.

Dumbass.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I get a kick out of the new progressive mantra..."it's established law...so move on!"

It is law...it is in place...but as even you grudgingly admit, it's far from perfect...so why would anyone "move on" from a bill that their constituents elected them to overturn? What Barack Obama and so many other progressives can't seem to grasp is that a majority of Americans didn't want ObamaCare which is why Democrats were voted out of office in record numbers in 2010. The truth is...Barry, Harry and Nancy passed the ACA over the objections of a majority of the American people wishes.

This notion that because they managed to ram the ACA through before the voters had a chance to stop them means that it's suddenly "untouchable" is nonsense.

You talk about how the GOP should go back to passing jobs bills, cutting spending and balancing the budget? Dude, the House has been sending bills to the Senate since 2010 that would do ALL of those things and Harry Reid has tabled them. This government shutdown is taking place BECAUSE the Obama Administration has refused to do what Bill Clinton did when he got hammered in his first mid-term election...this President has refused to compromise...has refused to move to the center as Clinton did.

You don't like the law? Get the votes to repeal it. Better yet, get the votes to make it better. republicans LOST, multiple times. Obama got reelected.

But what do Republicans do when they can't get their way. Hold the country hostage......even there, they lost

There have been many bad laws in this country. Ocare is just another of these bad laws.

 

[Oldstyle]

I get a kick out of the new progressive mantra..."it's established law...so move on!"

It is law...it is in place...but as even you grudgingly admit, it's far from perfect...so why would anyone "move on" from a bill that their constituents elected them to overturn? What Barack Obama and so many other progressives can't seem to grasp is that a majority of Americans didn't want ObamaCare which is why Democrats were voted out of office in record numbers in 2010. The truth is...Barry, Harry and Nancy passed the ACA over the objections of a majority of the American people wishes.

This notion that because they managed to ram the ACA through before the voters had a chance to stop them means that it's suddenly "untouchable" is nonsense.

You talk about how the GOP should go back to passing jobs bills, cutting spending and balancing the budget? Dude, the House has been sending bills to the Senate since 2010 that would do ALL of those things and Harry Reid has tabled them. This government shutdown is taking place BECAUSE the Obama Administration has refused to do what Bill Clinton did when he got hammered in his first mid-term election...this President has refused to compromise...has refused to move to the center as Clinton did.

You don't like the law? Get the votes to repeal it. Better yet, get the votes to make it better. republicans LOST, multiple times. Obama got reelected.

But what do Republicans do when they can't get their way. Hold the country hostage......even there, they lost

So what happened following the 2010 mid-terms, Winger? The Republicans won in a huge way in that election taking back more seats in one election in modern American political history! What did Barack Obama and Harry Reid DO following 2010? What compromises did they make? What GOP House bills did they allow through?

The truth is...they tabled those GOP bills. Just stuck them on a desk and let them collect dust while Obama repeatedly went AROUND Congress to push his agenda.

You want to know why we have such a polarized government now? Two things...it is a direct result of Obama, Reid and Pelosi shoving their agenda down the throats of the GOP when they had control of government...and their total indifference to the message that the voters sent in 2010 about being unhappy with the direction the three of them had taken the country.