Obama silent ahead of vote on Armenian genocide

[toomuchtime_]

President Barack Obama is in a bind as a House committee prepares to vote on a resolution that would recognize the World War I-era killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks as genocide.

While a White House candidate, then-Sen. Obama said he believed the killings were genocide. A congressional resolution to that effect could alienate Turkey, a NATO ally and traditional friend of the United States that is crucial to America's foreign policy goals.

Past administrations have defeated similar resolutions through public cajoling about national security interests and with behind-the-scenes lobbying.

So far, however, the Obama administration has taken no public position on the measure, set for a vote Thursday by the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Aides to senior lawmakers on the committee say there has been no pressure against the resolution from the White House. The administration was informed ahead of time that the committee would be scheduling the vote, according to Lynne Weil, spokeswoman for the committee's chairman, Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif.

Turkey long has made clear that the issue could affect relations with the U.S.

In 2007, when the House Armed Services Committee passed such a resolution, Turkey recalled its ambassador, and U.S. officials feared the Turks might cut off American access to a Turkish air base essential to operations in Iraq. After lobbying by Bush administration officials, the resolution was not considered by the full House.

A positive vote by Berman's committee would send the resolution to the full House.

The U.S. still wants Turkey's support for its operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. It also is pressing Turkey, which holds a rotating seat in the U.N. Security Council, to support penalties against Iran, Turkey's neighbor.

The committee is strongly pro-Israel, and prospects for passage could be affected by rising tensions between Turkey and Israel, as well as Turkey's relatively warm relationship with Iran. In the past, Turkey and Israel had friendlier relations, and Israel had quietly lobbied against the resolution.

The Associated Press: Obama silent ahead of vote on Armenian genocide

 

[RodISHI]

Truth in history is a problem?

Has the House committee made a resolution for the genocide of the American Indian?

 

[ekrem]

I actually hope that this will pass.
Will be a great lesson for those thinking politics is regional/national politics always for the local communities.

 

[ekrem]

From France-24 Channel

Turkey : Backlash for French business- France24
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gayoA8vRpIo]YouTube - Turkey : Backlash for French business- France24[/ame]

Same will happen to US companies.


Also:
Turkey should pass a resolution through its own Parliament that ties the military-cooperation between both nations to Congress resolutions. Incirlik, Turkish ports, Turkish logistics and fly-over rights included.
Enough said.

 

[goldcatt]

What I want to know is, what is the purpose of the vote? Does it make one bit of difference to anyone, anywhere whether a committee in the US House votes on whether something that happened almost a century ago was officially genocide?

 

[ekrem]

Comparison of the Holocaust to "Armenian Genocide".
In 3 Minutes by Bernard Lewis.


Lewis is a widely-read expert on the Middle East, and is regarded as one of the West’s leading scholars of that region.[2] His advice has been frequently sought by policymakers, including the former Bush administration.[3] In the Encyclopedia of Historians and Historical Writing Martin Kramer, whose Ph.D. thesis was directed by Lewis, considered that, over a 60-year career, he has emerged as "the most influential postwar historian of Islam and the Middle East."[1]
Bernard Lewis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG70UWESfu4]YouTube - Bernard Lewis Speaking on Armenian Allegations[/ame]

 

[mudwhistle]

Is this stupid shit gonna come up every GD year now?

 

[Big Black Dog]

I'm not real sure it is the business of the US government to right every wrong that has been done in the world by other countries. Seems like we would be money ahead if we stayed at home and minded our own business and affairs and kept our noses out of places we don't belong. We can't even manage our own affairs. How laughable it is to think we can manage the affairs of other countries...

 

[ekrem]

Is this stupid shit gonna come up every GD year now?

This year there has not come big noise out of Turkey.
So I am quiet hopefull that Turkey will not lobby against the resolution.
But this can change in the coming days/weeks and Turkey will be again threatening around.

When this resolution passes anyday in future, there will be counter-measures taken from Turkish State. Even such counter-measures that might seem irrational and to Turkey's disadvantage. If the street wants to hear Turkish Pop, government can't sing American Rock.

This touches the nation's pride and weakling behaviour of government will lead it to be replaced.
Maybe with some people like this:

Look from 50 second onwards. Opposition party leader throws gibbet rope on election campaign:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGPdWUyMlag]YouTube - Devlet Bahçeli ve ip[/ame]

Will be quiet funny to watch how USA navigates through the region with angry Turks.

 

[rdean]

I think we need to concentrate on today and not what happend before everyone living today was born.

 

[RodISHI]

I'm not real sure it is the business of the US government to right every wrong that has been done in the world by other countries. Seems like we would be money ahead if we stayed at home and minded our own business and affairs and kept our noses out of places we don't belong. We can't even manage our own affairs. How laughable it is to think we can manage the affairs of other countries...

Is that why congress is wanting to do this?

I agree us needs to check our own backyard really close the crap is getting really deep these days.


Ekrem, what does Turkish leadership now say about it? Does turkey consider that it was genocide? I believe most Americans have no doubt that with our former leaders from days past when the Indian massacres were committed it was genocide.

 

[Dr Grump]

Is this stupid shit gonna come up every GD year now?

This year there has not come big noise out of Turkey.
So I am quiet hopefull that Turkey will not lobby against the resolution.
But this can change in the coming days/weeks and Turkey will be again threatening around.

When this resolution passes anyday in future, there will be counter-measures taken from Turkish State. Even such counter-measures that might seem irrational and to Turkey's disadvantage. If the street wants to hear Turkish Pop, government can't sing American Rock.

This touches the nation's pride and weakling behaviour of government will lead it to be replaced.
Maybe with some people like this:

Look from 50 second onwards. Opposition party leader throws gibbet rope on election campaign:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGPdWUyMlag]YouTube - Devlet Bahçeli ve ip[/ame]

Will be quiet funny to watch how USA navigates through the region with angry Turks.

1915 was a holocaust of the Armenians by the Turks. It is well documented that the Turks systematically destroyed the Armenians. Lewis is an idiot...

 

[hjmick]

What the hell needs to be voted on? It was genocide. Why anyone fails to recognize this is beyond me.

And of course he's keeping his yap shut on the vote, he already broke his campaign promise with regard to the issue.

 

[goldcatt]

Of course it was genocide. But it's an issue for the historians, not government.

 

[ekrem]

Is that why congress is wanting to do this?

I agree us needs to check our own backyard really close the crap is getting really deep these days.


Ekrem, what does Turkish leadership now say about it? Does turkey consider that it was genocide? I believe most Americans have no doubt that with our former leaders from days past when the Indian massacres were committed it was genocide.

According to the Zurich protocolls, which are protocolls that kick-start diplomatic relations between Armenia and Turkey, there will be established a "historical commission" to classify and investigate the events of 1915.

As stated by Turkish Prime Minister on Munich Security Conference, only the results of such a commission will be accepted by Turkey. Lobbying in foreign parliaments and classification of the events by politicians won't be accepted by Turkey.

4 Minutes speech with english subtitles:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bFt3XY3SVY]YouTube - Turkey's PM Speaks to Security Conference re Armenian Claims[/ame]


The Zurich protocolls were sponsored by Switzerland, USA, Russia and EU.
Zurich protocolls were signed on October 2009 in Zurich, and have not been ratified yet by Armenian and Turkish parliament.
Here a video of the signing ceremony with Hillary Clinton attaining also:
Armenia Turkey Protocols Signed in Zurich - uZood Video

The driving force for Armenia for this is the prospect of trade with Turkey and being part in trans-caucasus infrastructure projects. Currently Armenian-Turkish borders are closed due to Armenia's occupation of Azerbaijan-Karabgh.

On the other side there is the Armenian Diaspora buying politicians for their cause:
Stop The Protocols Campaign | Normalization Without Preconditions

A side note... Armenia does not recognize the treaty of Kars between Soviets and Turkey.
Treaty of Kars defines current Turkish borders in Caucasus.
Soviets collapsed, and all independent states established in the Caucasus re-retified Kartrs-treaty. Only Armenia did not.

Treaty of Kars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Armenian constitution Mount Ararat of Turkey is classified national symbol of Armenia and Eastern Turkey is refered to as Western Armenia.
So the Armenian state "officially" has territorial claims on Turkey.

The Armenian Diaspora thinks that with "genocide resolutions" in foreign parliaments, there will be a climate to demand reparation pensions from Turkey and a "coalition of states" will free "Western Armenia" from Turkey.
The average Turk just wonders how there can be a state on the border not recognizing Turkish borders.

Also Turkey is pressured by Azerbaijan to link Zurich Protcolls with the status of Karabagh. The Karabagh problem is being tried to solve through Minsk Group.
Azerbaijan has now become an oil exporting nation and is constantly building up its military.
Azerbaijan's military budget alone equals total Armenian State budget.

Like the Defence Minister of Azerbaijan says, they won't wait another 15 years for diplomatic solutions to the Karabagh problem.
War inevitable - Azerbaijan's defence minister
News.Az - War inevitable - Azerbaijan's defence minister

Turkey trains Azerbaijani Military and is transferring military hardware.
In case of war, Turkey will supply Azerbaijan with intelligence and direct support.
We have signed over 100 Military agreements with Azerbaijan and transferred money, equipment and officer education to Azerbaijan.
The last Agreement from December 2009 states also transfer of Turkish soldiers under Azerbaijani command in case of freeing Karabagh from Armenian population.
Azerbaijani Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Read source linking [39] in Wikipedia.

Me, as a private person, thinks borders to Armenia should stay closed. Turkey does not need Armenia for anything, it is a failed state.

 

[ekrem]

What the hell needs to be voted on? It was genocide. Why anyone fails to recognize this is beyond me.

And of course he's keeping his yap shut on the vote, he already broke his campaign promise with regard to the issue.

Resolution of "Armenian Genocide" might please election results in US districs with big Armenian Diaspora or fundraising campaigns during elections.
I assume that information-channels are different for Presidents and nominees for presidential office.
Once a nominee becomes elected as president he has "state knowledge" and all informations from bilateral channels are open.
That might be the reason why US presidents sing different song regarding "Armenian Genocide" during election.

Don't be naive. Even people like Bush, having every reason to be angry at Turkey from US perspective, lobbied in favour of Turkey.
In Turkey, the public opinion counts everyday more and influences politics. You dont really want to know what Turkish public thinks about your Congress.

 

[hjmick]

What the hell needs to be voted on? It was genocide. Why anyone fails to recognize this is beyond me.

And of course he's keeping his yap shut on the vote, he already broke his campaign promise with regard to the issue.

Resolution of "Armenian Genocide" might please election results in US districs with big Armenian Diaspora or fundraising campaigns during elections.
I assume that information-channels are different for Presidents and nominees for presidential office.
Once a nominee becomes elected as president he has "state knowledge" and all informations from bilateral channels are open.
That might be the reason why US presidents sing different song regarding "Armenian Genocide" during election.

Don't be naive. Even people like Bush, having every reason to be angry at Turkey from US perspective, lobbied in favour of Turkey.
In Turkey, the public opinion counts everyday more and influences politics. You dont really want to know what Turkish public thinks about your Congress.

I'm not naive. I get the politics behind the issue. I just don't like it. Whether they vote to "recognize" the genocide or not, it happened. The sooner they call a spade a spade, the sooner everyone can move forward. Politics be damned.

 

[ekrem]

1915 was a holocaust of the Armenians by the Turks. It is well documented that the Turks systematically destroyed the Armenians. Lewis is an idiot...

The only idiots are provincial Congress-Men in assumeing this whole matter will not explode in their hands.

The sooner they call a spade a spade, the sooner eveyone can move forward.

That's the issue I am talking about. Let them finally pass that resolution.
Pass the intiative to Turkey.
Most Turks are sick of the same shit every year, you are not the moral apostel for Turks.



Indirectly related:

Senior military officials from Azerbaijan arrive in Turkey on Feb. 22 to hold talks with their Turkish counterparts. Azerbaijan has been building up its military in case a conflict emerges with Armenia over the Nagorno-Karabagh issue. Baku has been critical of the Turkish-Armenian reconciliation process, which is albeit currently stalled. According to STRATFOR sources, the Azerbaijani delegation is coming to Turkey to assess the Turks’ commitment to their alliance with Baku and to let Ankara know that Azerbaijan’s war plans are ready if Turkey makes the wrong calculations for southern Caucasus.
Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR

 

[ekrem]

Zurich Protocolls in the view of Armenian Diaspora:
Stop The Protocols Campaign | Normalization Without Preconditions

 

[ekrem]

30-12-2009 05:16:11
The agreement on military assistance signed by Turkey and Azerbaijan envisions Ankara’s supplying its ally with weapons, military machines and, if necessary, soldiers, during the liberation of Upper (Nagorno) Garabagh and other Armenia-occupied Azerbaijani territories, Azerbaijani lawmakers have said.
The MPs said the Azerbaijani military and public should be ready for war any time.
“The Azerbaijani public should be more actively involved in the settlement of the Upper Garabagh conflict and be ready for the president’s call to war any moment,” MP Gultakin Hajibayli said.
AzerNEWS

_________________________________________________
The story of the Mosquito and the Man.
The Man falls in his chair after business-day.
Watching TV, eating food and drinking.
There is a Mosquito in the room.

A) First the Mosquito flys just around making some noise.

B) Then the Mosquito takes courage and flys into the comfort zone of the Man. The Man just makes some hand gestures so that Mosquito flys away. The Man lies just too lazy in his chair to engage in real physical action.

C)The Mosquito takes another courage flying into comfort zone of Man. This time very near to the skin of the Man.
Man thinks: "You damned little Mosquito" and pushes away the Mosquito.

D)Now the Mosquito flys again int the comfort zone, it flys very near to the skin and this time the Mosquito lands on the face/nose of the Man.
Now the Man says to himself:
"You little f* Mosquito, I am such tired, but now I will stand up and smash you against the wall, so I have my peace for the rest of the day".
_________________________________________________

Turkey is neither the mosuito nor the man.
Goodwill of Turkey should not be overstretched by anyone.