Obama on fiscal cliff: Congress, 'I WARNED YOU'

[OKTexas]

It fell apart because of the republicans mostly because they precipitated the "crisis" in the first place and for some reason just expected democrats to cave in, another terrible miscalculation on their part. In the end I doubt any kind of deal the two brokered would have made it through the house but I feel that the whole mess was so unnecessary, we are the only major country in the world that has a debt ceiling and it does not seem to keep spending down and the effect of holding it hostage is not worth the concessions gained. The approval rating for the house plunged into the low teens and has never recovered, we were downgraded for having so much chaos in our economic deliberations and now we have this "fiscal cliff" that I am not so sure is a bad thing but some are freaking out. We cannot have such recklessness in government no matter what high sounding rationales they use.

Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.

Sure it is, it's one of his promises and one of the tasks democrats are demanding of him. By all measures the rich are taxed too lightly especially since they are the only tax bracket that has experienced adjusted income growth in thirty years. We tax them lightly because they are supposed to be using that extra money to grow the economy, it's how those cuts were sold but wages continue to stagnate and jobs continue to lag far behind their continuing and remarkable increase in wealth. If nothing else we need to send them an unmistakable message that we will expect some trickle down for our national largess in the future.

Funny they didn't get upset that he has failed to keep his other promises, like cutting the deficit in half, or listening to all good ideas, or working across the isle. If he gets more revenue it's a win and his zombies will accept it if he protrays it that way.

Wages have been stagnate because government regualtions has forced manufacturing offshore, until that changes where it will be profitable to make things here, that's not going to change. Wages will never be good when 70+% of GDP comes from consumption. Like it or not that is economic reality, retail and service jobs don't pay well, they never have.

As for sending a message to the wealthy, go ahead, but be prepared to send the next message to another country, wealth give them an advantage that most of us don't have, it's called portability, there are some states learning that lesson right now. If you want less of something, just tax it and it will go away, doesn't matter if it's a commodity or money.

 

[OKTexas]

Thanks for saving me a butt load of time, anyone that thinks the Constitution is just a template lacks the base knowledge required to discuss it.

It is!

Oh man..

Seriously..what do you construe it to be?

Seriously OKTexas..

What do you construe the Constitution to be?

I've seen rightwingers make a painting that have it as scripture handed to the founding fathers by jesus.

Is that what you think it is?

Try reading it, it's self explanitory.

 

[OKTexas]

It fell apart because of the republicans mostly because they precipitated the "crisis" in the first place and for some reason just expected democrats to cave in, another terrible miscalculation on their part. In the end I doubt any kind of deal the two brokered would have made it through the house but I feel that the whole mess was so unnecessary, we are the only major country in the world that has a debt ceiling and it does not seem to keep spending down and the effect of holding it hostage is not worth the concessions gained. The approval rating for the house plunged into the low teens and has never recovered, we were downgraded for having so much chaos in our economic deliberations and now we have this "fiscal cliff" that I am not so sure is a bad thing but some are freaking out. We cannot have such recklessness in government no matter what high sounding rationales they use.

Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.

It is poliitics. After 4 years of childishly saying no nonno.no and no, the Republicans are just gonna have to eat tax hikes on the rich. It is the change voted for on Nov. 6th.

Regards from Rosie

Keep drinking that kool aid, I hear it goes better with vodka.

 

[OKTexas]

Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.

It is poliitics. After 4 years of childishly saying no nonno.no and no, the Republicans are just gonna have to eat tax hikes on the rich. It is the change voted for on Nov. 6th.

Regards from Rosie

Actually they can keep voting "no".

And the Bush tax cuts STILL end.

Yep and unless they vote yes on something, they end for everyone.

 

[OKTexas]

I don't want to sound cold here but your not talking about the majority of the "poor" in this country, there are fringes that do fall through the holes in the net but not the majority. I work with an organization that works with the poor here in my area. People come in with Iphones that cost allot more than any phone I've ever owned. Their cars in many cases are newer than mine and they come in to get free clothes for themselves and their 5-6 children. Even then they try to get more than the organization offers, we even had to lock the toilet paper in the bath room to keep them from stealing it. If you think they show any appreciation for the volunteers that are there for them every week, think again, they do seem to enjoy complaing when the voluneers make them follow the rules. We even offer a hot lunch every week to anyone that comes to the table, we also have a food bank. This is all done because people care and are trying to help, but the more we give the more they want. That is the entitlement mentallity we are fostering and it's not good for them or society as a whole.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a safety net, but it has to have limits and boundries.

Everyone concentrates on taxes, how about we start looking at all the hidden taxes we pay in the form of fees added to our phone, gas, water and electric bills that also provied services to the poor. We can't even write them off a charitable deductions.

It's a tough problem and for every "welfare queen" there are many more who would rather just get a decent job and regain some of their pride, there are no ready solutions and I am not opposed to reforms and cuts but the tone on the right is far too hateful to allow them anywhere near reform especially since you can't even get them to admit that there are far too many jobless and far too few available jobs to just cut people off and force them into steady employment. Real entitlement reform would entail a temporary spending increase to train people and create some jobs for them to do since the market is just terrible at creating entry level employment these days.

To second what occupied and to say that there is a world of difference between 'poor' in a well-off area and 'poor' in a poor area. Sounds like the people you see are 'poor' in a wealthy area. Probably why the people who live in wealthy areas think that there is no other kind of poor people but those with their hands out.

Right, my house is 450 sqft, we are really well off. I live in a rual area, there are a few out here that are well off, but mostly lower middle class, hell maybe I'm poor and need a dem to tell me.

 

[occupied]

Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.

Sure it is, it's one of his promises and one of the tasks democrats are demanding of him. By all measures the rich are taxed too lightly especially since they are the only tax bracket that has experienced adjusted income growth in thirty years. We tax them lightly because they are supposed to be using that extra money to grow the economy, it's how those cuts were sold but wages continue to stagnate and jobs continue to lag far behind their continuing and remarkable increase in wealth. If nothing else we need to send them an unmistakable message that we will expect some trickle down for our national largess in the future.

Funny they didn't get upset that he has failed to keep his other promises, like cutting the deficit in half, or listening to all good ideas, or working across the isle. If he gets more revenue it's a win and his zombies will accept it if he protrays it that way.

Wages have been stagnate because government regualtions has forced manufacturing offshore, until that changes where it will be profitable to make things here, that's not going to change. Wages will never be good when 70+% of GDP comes from consumption. Like it or not that is economic reality, retail and service jobs don't pay well, they never have.

As for sending a message to the wealthy, go ahead, but be prepared to send the next message to another country, wealth give them an advantage that most of us don't have, it's called portability, there are some states learning that lesson right now. If you want less of something, just tax it and it will go away, doesn't matter if it's a commodity or money.

Wages are stagnant and jobs went offshore because for far too long we have had to compete directly with slave labor in toxic hellholes, there is no downside to management at all to doing business that way, one way or another this trend has to turn around before we are no better off than Foxcon slaves. They pollute like mad and look at them, they pay peanuts , how is stripping regs supposed to make us better off? At best just a more polluted and overworked America.

 

[OKTexas]

It's a tough problem and for every "welfare queen" there are many more who would rather just get a decent job and regain some of their pride, there are no ready solutions and I am not opposed to reforms and cuts but the tone on the right is far too hateful to allow them anywhere near reform especially since you can't even get them to admit that there are far too many jobless and far too few available jobs to just cut people off and force them into steady employment. Real entitlement reform would entail a temporary spending increase to train people and create some jobs for them to do since the market is just terrible at creating entry level employment these days.

To second what occupied and to say that there is a world of difference between 'poor' in a well-off area and 'poor' in a poor area. Sounds like the people you see are 'poor' in a wealthy area. Probably why the people who live in wealthy areas think that there is no other kind of poor people but those with their hands out.

Some of these people who subscribe to the "welfare queen" theory need to go to some parts of Appalachia and see what American poverty really looks like. I've known the other side of the coin, a poor family too proud for handouts, whatever you think of the welfare queen stereotype the poor but proud family is worse.

I was a recruiter in upper east TN, east KY, southern WV and a little of southern VA, all coal and tobaco country from 84-88, I know what your talking about. Ther are many proud and very fine folks there.

 

[OKTexas]

To second what occupied and to say that there is a world of difference between 'poor' in a well-off area and 'poor' in a poor area. Sounds like the people you see are 'poor' in a wealthy area. Probably why the people who live in wealthy areas think that there is no other kind of poor people but those with their hands out.

Some of these people who subscribe to the "welfare queen" theory need to go to some parts of Appalachia and see what American poverty really looks like. I've known the other side of the coin, a poor family too proud for handouts, whatever you think of the welfare queen stereotype the poor but proud family is worse.

100 counties with lowest per capita income

1 Buffalo County, South Dakota $5,213
2 Shannon County, South Dakota $6,286
3 Starr County, Texas $7,069
4 Ziebach County, South Dakota $7,463
5 Todd County, South Dakota $7,714
6 Sioux County, North Dakota $7,731
7 Corson County, South Dakota $8,615
8 Wade Hampton, Alaska $8,717
9 Maverick County, Texas $8,758
10 Apache County, Arizona $8,986

100 Poorest Counties by Median Household Income 2010
1 Buffalo County, South Dakota $20,577
2 Wilcox County, Alabama $21,611
3 Owsley County, Kentucky $22,335
4 Holmes County, Mississippi $22,536
5 Claiborne County, Mississippi $22,750
6 Zavala County, Texas $22,948
7 Hancock County, Georgia $23,887
8 Clay County, Kentucky $24,081
9 McDowell County, West Virginia $24,133
10 Humphreys County, Mississippi $24,205

LINK would be helpful to know how old the numbers are and how they are calcualted

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Give em hell President Obama! The American people are 100% behind you.





GOP divide over Obama tax plan goes public - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- An angry warning by President Barack Obama delivered well over a year ago foreshadowed his campaign-style approach on Wednesday aimed at pressuring Republicans to compromise and reach a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff.

Fuck the bastard it's his mess to clean up The Republicans don't have to compromise unless obama is willing to cut a lot of government programs.

 

[OKTexas]

Sure it is, it's one of his promises and one of the tasks democrats are demanding of him. By all measures the rich are taxed too lightly especially since they are the only tax bracket that has experienced adjusted income growth in thirty years. We tax them lightly because they are supposed to be using that extra money to grow the economy, it's how those cuts were sold but wages continue to stagnate and jobs continue to lag far behind their continuing and remarkable increase in wealth. If nothing else we need to send them an unmistakable message that we will expect some trickle down for our national largess in the future.

Funny they didn't get upset that he has failed to keep his other promises, like cutting the deficit in half, or listening to all good ideas, or working across the isle. If he gets more revenue it's a win and his zombies will accept it if he protrays it that way.

Wages have been stagnate because government regualtions has forced manufacturing offshore, until that changes where it will be profitable to make things here, that's not going to change. Wages will never be good when 70+% of GDP comes from consumption. Like it or not that is economic reality, retail and service jobs don't pay well, they never have.

As for sending a message to the wealthy, go ahead, but be prepared to send the next message to another country, wealth give them an advantage that most of us don't have, it's called portability, there are some states learning that lesson right now. If you want less of something, just tax it and it will go away, doesn't matter if it's a commodity or money.

Wages are stagnant and jobs went offshore because for far too long we have had to compete directly with slave labor in toxic hellholes, there is no downside to management at all to doing business that way, one way or another this trend has to turn around before we are no better off than Foxcon slaves. They pollute like mad and look at them, they pay peanuts , how is stripping regs supposed to make us better off? At best just a more polluted and overworked America.

Let's use the words of your dear leader, it's called a balanced approach, it will piss off the eco-weenins that want us back in the 16th century, but the eco pendulum has gone so far to the left that there are practially no returns on the crap they are pushing, they are just very expensive. You can't write regs without getting business input and establishing standards that make sense and will not be so intrusive that it puts the business out of business. A prime example the current administration upping the cafe standards for mileage on autos. They will require technology that is expensive and much of it hasn't even been invented yet, but there was no consideration to these facts. If the technology is not invented or is just too expensive the only alternative is to make cars lighter and less safe. There is always a trade off to regulations with many unintended consequences, but the eco-weenines don't care, it up to the politicians to make sure regulations are responsible and make sense before they are imposed. It cost too much for a company to contest a regulation once it in place, so they just close or move.

 

[MarcATL]

Give em hell President Obama! The American people are 100% behind you.





GOP divide over Obama tax plan goes public - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- An angry warning by President Barack Obama delivered well over a year ago foreshadowed his campaign-style approach on Wednesday aimed at pressuring Republicans to compromise and reach a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff.

These RW bastards are really EFFING with the wrong man right now.

The wind is behind Obama's wings, the CON$ are underfoot, they better shape up or SHIP OUT!!!

The American People will not FORGIVE them of their trespasses if they don't straighten up their act.

Personally I hope they KUNTinue their obstructionism...we have some more CON$ to kick out in 2014.

 

[occupied]

Funny they didn't get upset that he has failed to keep his other promises, like cutting the deficit in half, or listening to all good ideas, or working across the isle. If he gets more revenue it's a win and his zombies will accept it if he protrays it that way.

Wages have been stagnate because government regualtions has forced manufacturing offshore, until that changes where it will be profitable to make things here, that's not going to change. Wages will never be good when 70+% of GDP comes from consumption. Like it or not that is economic reality, retail and service jobs don't pay well, they never have.

As for sending a message to the wealthy, go ahead, but be prepared to send the next message to another country, wealth give them an advantage that most of us don't have, it's called portability, there are some states learning that lesson right now. If you want less of something, just tax it and it will go away, doesn't matter if it's a commodity or money.

Wages are stagnant and jobs went offshore because for far too long we have had to compete directly with slave labor in toxic hellholes, there is no downside to management at all to doing business that way, one way or another this trend has to turn around before we are no better off than Foxcon slaves. They pollute like mad and look at them, they pay peanuts , how is stripping regs supposed to make us better off? At best just a more polluted and overworked America.

Let's use the words of your dear leader, it's called a balanced approach, it will piss off the eco-weenins that want us back in the 16th century, but the eco pendulum has gone so far to the left that there are practially no returns on the crap they are pushing, they are just very expensive. You can't write regs without getting business input and establishing standards that make sense and will not be so intrusive that it puts the business out of business. A prime example the current administration upping the cafe standards for mileage on autos. They will require technology that is expensive and much of it hasn't even been invented yet, but there was no consideration to these facts. If the technology is not invented or is just too expensive the only alternative is to make cars lighter and less safe. There is always a trade off to regulations with many unintended consequences, but the eco-weenines don't care, it up to the politicians to make sure regulations are responsible and make sense before they are imposed. It cost too much for a company to contest a regulation once it in place, so they just close or move.

Still didn't explain how we would be better off even if we had the non existent pollution laws of China, they still pay their people slave wages and work them until they kill themselves from despair. We cannot survive a race to the bottom with such horror.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Give em hell President Obama! The American people are 100% behind you.





GOP divide over Obama tax plan goes public - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- An angry warning by President Barack Obama delivered well over a year ago foreshadowed his campaign-style approach on Wednesday aimed at pressuring Republicans to compromise and reach a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff.

These RW bastards are really EFFING with the wrong man right now.

The wind is behind Obama's wings, the CON$ are underfoot, they better shape up or SHIP OUT!!!

The American People will not FORGIVE them of their trespasses if they don't straighten up their act.

Personally I hope they KUNTinue their obstructionism...we have some more CON$ to kick out in 2014.

Again fuck the bastard. May he rot in hell.
Who the fuck does obama think he is? God? He's a fucking public servant not as god damn dictator.

 

[MarcATL]

Give em hell President Obama! The American people are 100% behind you.





GOP divide over Obama tax plan goes public - CNN.com

These RW bastards are really EFFING with the wrong man right now.

The wind is behind Obama's wings, the CON$ are underfoot, they better shape up or SHIP OUT!!!

The American People will not FORGIVE them of their trespasses if they don't straighten up their act.

Personally I hope they KUNTinue their obstructionism...we have some more CON$ to kick out in 2014.

Again fuck the bastard. May he rot in hell.

Why are you shatting on CITIZEN Romney? Hasn't the poor bastard suffered enough already?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

These RW bastards are really EFFING with the wrong man right now.

The wind is behind Obama's wings, the CON$ are underfoot, they better shape up or SHIP OUT!!!

The American People will not FORGIVE them of their trespasses if they don't straighten up their act.

Personally I hope they KUNTinue their obstructionism...we have some more CON$ to kick out in 2014.

Again fuck the bastard. May he rot in hell.

Why are you shatting on CITIZEN Romney? Hasn't the poor bastard suffered enough already?

Dude you're barking up the wrong tree, obama romney what is the fucking difference?

 

[syrenn]

One hundred percent of your bee hive is behind you.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ1eAM8CChc]30 Japanese Giant Hornets kill 30,000 Honey Bees - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Oldstyle]

Social Security doesn't add to the deficit - it is a different fund from others.

Do not exempt income above $ 250,000 from FICA and make it regardless of source of income.

If Republicants refuse....means test it. Those who are wealthy and don't need it don't get it. They will get needed screenings from Obamacare and can buy the same Medicare coverage as other seniors.

If you don't need it why exempt you from the taxes that fund it? Makes no sense. Childless people still pay taxes for schools they don't need.

Regards from Rosie

You, Rosie are exactly the uniformed sort that voted Barack Obama back into office even though he ran out of ideas on how to fix the economy over two years ago.

Social Security wouldn't add to the deficit except for the simple facts that our politicians have been raiding the Social Security fund for years now to pay for OTHER things they wanted. The money we paid in? It's not all there like it should be. Couple that with the huge wave of Baby Boomers about to retire and you've got a BIG problem...the kind of problem that makes countries insolvent.

And just so you know? The tax that Obama wants to impose on the wealthy will pay to run our government for an estimated 8 days. Only someone REALLY stupid would think that's going to be the answer to our problems. That would be you, Rosie!

 

[Zander]

Personally, I think we need to go over the "fiscal cliff" . These DC clowns will never cut spending voluntarily. It's time to stop negotiating, go home, and live with the sequestration and the tax increases. Sure, GDP will take a hit for one year, but the country will be better off in the long run.

Strangely enough..I agree with you.

Why can't Congress do what we just did?

 

[Oldstyle]

Give em hell President Obama! The American people are 100% behind you.





GOP divide over Obama tax plan goes public - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- An angry warning by President Barack Obama delivered well over a year ago foreshadowed his campaign-style approach on Wednesday aimed at pressuring Republicans to compromise and reach a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff.

These RW bastards are really EFFING with the wrong man right now.

The wind is behind Obama's wings, the CON$ are underfoot, they better shape up or SHIP OUT!!!

The American People will not FORGIVE them of their trespasses if they don't straighten up their act.

Personally I hope they KUNTinue their obstructionism...we have some more CON$ to kick out in 2014.

I hate to point out the obvious here, Marc...but when you progressives controlled the whole ball of wax back in 2009...you screwed the pooch so badly that the American electorate voted in Republicans in record numbers. What makes you think this time would be any different. Yes, Barry won reelection! Wahoo...wahoo!!! Now what is his plan to fix the economy and put people back to work? Oh, that's right...he doesn't have one.

 

[OKTexas]

Wages are stagnant and jobs went offshore because for far too long we have had to compete directly with slave labor in toxic hellholes, there is no downside to management at all to doing business that way, one way or another this trend has to turn around before we are no better off than Foxcon slaves. They pollute like mad and look at them, they pay peanuts , how is stripping regs supposed to make us better off? At best just a more polluted and overworked America.

Let's use the words of your dear leader, it's called a balanced approach, it will piss off the eco-weenins that want us back in the 16th century, but the eco pendulum has gone so far to the left that there are practially no returns on the crap they are pushing, they are just very expensive. You can't write regs without getting business input and establishing standards that make sense and will not be so intrusive that it puts the business out of business. A prime example the current administration upping the cafe standards for mileage on autos. They will require technology that is expensive and much of it hasn't even been invented yet, but there was no consideration to these facts. If the technology is not invented or is just too expensive the only alternative is to make cars lighter and less safe. There is always a trade off to regulations with many unintended consequences, but the eco-weenines don't care, it up to the politicians to make sure regulations are responsible and make sense before they are imposed. It cost too much for a company to contest a regulation once it in place, so they just close or move.

Still didn't explain how we would be better off even if we had the non existent pollution laws of China, they still pay their people slave wages and work them until they kill themselves from despair. We cannot survive a race to the bottom with such horror.

Wages in the grand scheme are a minor concern in manufacturing business today, raw goods, regulatory complience and transportation are bigger concerns. You and all the defeatist can keep coming up with excuses as to why something won't work, coming up wiith a thousand hypotheticals, try talking to business men and just ask them what it would take to bring manufacturing back to the US, I think their answers will surprise you.