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Did you go without air conditioning, heat, TV, phones, cars, clothes, shoes, our "poor" have a better standard of living than middle class in many countries and better than some considered wealthy in others. Our poor don't generally live in mud huts with dirt floors and a fire in the corner to cook on. Most in our country have never been exposed to true poverty and I'm glad that is the case, we need a safety net. We just don't need to provide as much as we do. Simple concept, cut back.
Do you know what it is like to every time you get in your car you say a prayer that it starts, every mile you drive you listen to that little noise under the hood knowing you don't have the money for repairs, knowing that if you miss a day of work you will probably be replaced without a so much as a 'thanks for stopping by'? Do you walk through the supermarket knowing that you don't really have enough money for the food your family needs but wanting give your children something decent for supper each night even if they will still not be full at the end of the meal, ever, except maybe special occasions? And that is people who are two steps up from the bottom.
Yep, been there, my first car I purchased for $75.00, I bought it in 1966, it was a 1941 model, never had a new car till 1984. I lived many years on mac and cheese you could buy 10 for a dollar and hot dogs. I've had hard times, but I've never received public assistance at any time, I worked my way through them. As for childern, I can't say, I decided in the late 60's not to bring any into the world, beleive it or not I say the decline of the country coming and didn't think it would be fair to a kid to subject them to it. I retires a couple of years ago but till then I was never without a job more than two weeks unless I wanted to be, because I would do what ever was available. Trust me I've done jobs that would make many throw up on the spot, but it paid the bills till I found something better.
Also while I was in the military I've seen real poverty first hand, like I said I don't want to see that in this country, but people demanding things that aren't necessary to survive make me sick.
Did you go without air conditioning, heat, TV, phones, cars, clothes, shoes, our "poor" have a better standard of living than middle class in many countries and better than some considered wealthy in others. Our poor don't generally live in mud huts with dirt floors and a fire in the corner to cook on. Most in our country have never been exposed to true poverty and I'm glad that is the case, we need a safety net. We just don't need to provide as much as we do. Simple concept, cut back.
Do you know what it is like to every time you get in your car you say a prayer that it starts, every mile you drive you listen to that little noise under the hood knowing you don't have the money for repairs, knowing that if you miss a day of work you will probably be replaced without a so much as a 'thanks for stopping by'? Do you walk through the supermarket knowing that you don't really have enough money for the food your family needs but wanting give your children something decent for supper each night even if they will still not be full at the end of the meal, ever, except maybe special occasions? And that is people who are two steps up from the bottom.
Yep, been there, my first car I purchased for $75.00, I bought it in 1966, it was a 1941 model, never had a new car till 1984. I lived many years on mac and cheese you could buy 10 for a dollar and hot dogs. I've had hard times, but I've never received public assistance at any time, I worked my way through them. As for childern, I can't say, I decided in the late 60's not to bring any into the world, beleive it or not I say the decline of the country coming and didn't think it would be fair to a kid to subject them to it. I retires a couple of years ago but till then I was never without a job more than two weeks unless I wanted to be, because I would do what ever was available. Trust me I've done jobs that would make many throw up on the spot, but it paid the bills till I found something better.
Also while I was in the military I've seen real poverty first hand, like I said I don't want to see that in this country, but people demanding things that aren't necessary to survive make me sick.
Still not getting it, Republicans blew the deepest entitlement cuts they had ever been offered because they valued the tax cuts more, now they will not get the cuts they wanted and the tax cuts will expire for the wealthy. Next time you work yourself up into a no compromise lather think about this situation, that kind of adamant refusal to deal in good faith bears some bitter fruit, eat it and enjoy it. You want to work to fix long term problems? Doing that requires a willingness to deal in good faith and republicans have just not learned that skill yet.
I can smell the BS from here, the republicans came out and offered additonal revenue, the first thing the dems said is entitlements are off the table, now your dear leader is demanding his tax increase and wants to put cuts off till next year. Dems have never really offered entitlement reform in good faith and they don't plan to do it now.
Read this lengthy and insightful account of what happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/m...-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all
It seems the deal fell apart mostly because Boehner lost control of the republican caucus, there were some pretty good stuff for both parties on the table but in the end Boehner just could not guarantee he had the votes for any deal he would reach with the president.
That would mean you'd actually have to read it.
Congress makes the rules on taxes..that's part of they do.
The Constitution is a template and it by no means was meant to get into the nitty gritty of day to day legislation. That's why it's lasted so long.
Thanks for saving me a butt load of time, anyone that thinks the Constitution is just a template lacks the base knowledge required to discuss it.
It is!
Oh man..
Seriously..what do you construe it to be?
It fell apart because of the republicans mostly because they precipitated the "crisis" in the first place and for some reason just expected democrats to cave in, another terrible miscalculation on their part. In the end I doubt any kind of deal the two brokered would have made it through the house but I feel that the whole mess was so unnecessary, we are the only major country in the world that has a debt ceiling and it does not seem to keep spending down and the effect of holding it hostage is not worth the concessions gained. The approval rating for the house plunged into the low teens and has never recovered, we were downgraded for having so much chaos in our economic deliberations and now we have this "fiscal cliff" that I am not so sure is a bad thing but some are freaking out. We cannot have such recklessness in government no matter what high sounding rationales they use.I can smell the BS from here, the republicans came out and offered additonal revenue, the first thing the dems said is entitlements are off the table, now your dear leader is demanding his tax increase and wants to put cuts off till next year. Dems have never really offered entitlement reform in good faith and they don't plan to do it now.
Read this lengthy and insightful account of what happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/m...-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all
It seems the deal fell apart mostly because Boehner lost control of the republican caucus, there were some pretty good stuff for both parties on the table but in the end Boehner just could not guarantee he had the votes for any deal he would reach with the president.
Honestly what I got out of the article was the possiblility was there, but I can't say it fell apart just because of the republicans. What struck me more than anything is how the president wants to do everything through his staff, keeping his distance and honestly leading from behind. A real leader would bring the budget experts and leadership from both houses, sat them down and locked the doors with himself INSIDE the room, and hammered out a deal. I know the left likes to blame tea party members but you have to remember, they are less than 17% of the congress, so they alone have no power. Also you can't say a deal actually existed because there was no legislation that was ever voted on in either house.
Do you know what it is like to every time you get in your car you say a prayer that it starts, every mile you drive you listen to that little noise under the hood knowing you don't have the money for repairs, knowing that if you miss a day of work you will probably be replaced without a so much as a 'thanks for stopping by'? Do you walk through the supermarket knowing that you don't really have enough money for the food your family needs but wanting give your children something decent for supper each night even if they will still not be full at the end of the meal, ever, except maybe special occasions? And that is people who are two steps up from the bottom.
Yep, been there, my first car I purchased for $75.00, I bought it in 1966, it was a 1941 model, never had a new car till 1984. I lived many years on mac and cheese you could buy 10 for a dollar and hot dogs. I've had hard times, but I've never received public assistance at any time, I worked my way through them. As for childern, I can't say, I decided in the late 60's not to bring any into the world, beleive it or not I say the decline of the country coming and didn't think it would be fair to a kid to subject them to it. I retires a couple of years ago but till then I was never without a job more than two weeks unless I wanted to be, because I would do what ever was available. Trust me I've done jobs that would make many throw up on the spot, but it paid the bills till I found something better.
Also while I was in the military I've seen real poverty first hand, like I said I don't want to see that in this country, but people demanding things that aren't necessary to survive make me sick.
Want to list the luxuries you think they are demanding? I know this is off-topic but I would really like to know what you think the bare minimum is. Just to get a job you need an address and a phone number plus transportation, child care and clean presentable clothes. Is that stuff too much to ask?
It fell apart because of the republicans mostly because they precipitated the "crisis" in the first place and for some reason just expected democrats to cave in, another terrible miscalculation on their part. In the end I doubt any kind of deal the two brokered would have made it through the house but I feel that the whole mess was so unnecessary, we are the only major country in the world that has a debt ceiling and it does not seem to keep spending down and the effect of holding it hostage is not worth the concessions gained. The approval rating for the house plunged into the low teens and has never recovered, we were downgraded for having so much chaos in our economic deliberations and now we have this "fiscal cliff" that I am not so sure is a bad thing but some are freaking out. We cannot have such recklessness in government no matter what high sounding rationales they use.Read this lengthy and insightful account of what happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/m...-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all
It seems the deal fell apart mostly because Boehner lost control of the republican caucus, there were some pretty good stuff for both parties on the table but in the end Boehner just could not guarantee he had the votes for any deal he would reach with the president.
Honestly what I got out of the article was the possiblility was there, but I can't say it fell apart just because of the republicans. What struck me more than anything is how the president wants to do everything through his staff, keeping his distance and honestly leading from behind. A real leader would bring the budget experts and leadership from both houses, sat them down and locked the doors with himself INSIDE the room, and hammered out a deal. I know the left likes to blame tea party members but you have to remember, they are less than 17% of the congress, so they alone have no power. Also you can't say a deal actually existed because there was no legislation that was ever voted on in either house.
Yep, been there, my first car I purchased for $75.00, I bought it in 1966, it was a 1941 model, never had a new car till 1984. I lived many years on mac and cheese you could buy 10 for a dollar and hot dogs. I've had hard times, but I've never received public assistance at any time, I worked my way through them. As for childern, I can't say, I decided in the late 60's not to bring any into the world, beleive it or not I say the decline of the country coming and didn't think it would be fair to a kid to subject them to it. I retires a couple of years ago but till then I was never without a job more than two weeks unless I wanted to be, because I would do what ever was available. Trust me I've done jobs that would make many throw up on the spot, but it paid the bills till I found something better.
Also while I was in the military I've seen real poverty first hand, like I said I don't want to see that in this country, but people demanding things that aren't necessary to survive make me sick.
Want to list the luxuries you think they are demanding? I know this is off-topic but I would really like to know what you think the bare minimum is. Just to get a job you need an address and a phone number plus transportation, child care and clean presentable clothes. Is that stuff too much to ask?
I don't want to sound cold here but your not talking about the majority of the "poor" in this country, there are fringes that do fall through the holes in the net but not the majority. I work with an organization that works with the poor here in my area. People come in with Iphones that cost allot more than any phone I've ever owned. Their cars in many cases are newer than mine and they come in to get free clothes for themselves and their 5-6 children. Even then they try to get more than the organization offers, we even had to lock the toilet paper in the bath room to keep them from stealing it. If you think they show any appreciation for the volunteers that are there for them every week, think again, they do seem to enjoy complaing when the voluneers make them follow the rules. We even offer a hot lunch every week to anyone that comes to the table, we also have a food bank. This is all done because people care and are trying to help, but the more we give the more they want. That is the entitlement mentallity we are fostering and it's not good for them or society as a whole.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a safety net, but it has to have limits and boundries.
Everyone concentrates on taxes, how about we start looking at all the hidden taxes we pay in the form of fees added to our phone, gas, water and electric bills that also provied services to the poor. We can't even write them off a charitable deductions.
It fell apart because of the republicans mostly because they precipitated the "crisis" in the first place and for some reason just expected democrats to cave in, another terrible miscalculation on their part. In the end I doubt any kind of deal the two brokered would have made it through the house but I feel that the whole mess was so unnecessary, we are the only major country in the world that has a debt ceiling and it does not seem to keep spending down and the effect of holding it hostage is not worth the concessions gained. The approval rating for the house plunged into the low teens and has never recovered, we were downgraded for having so much chaos in our economic deliberations and now we have this "fiscal cliff" that I am not so sure is a bad thing but some are freaking out. We cannot have such recklessness in government no matter what high sounding rationales they use.Honestly what I got out of the article was the possiblility was there, but I can't say it fell apart just because of the republicans. What struck me more than anything is how the president wants to do everything through his staff, keeping his distance and honestly leading from behind. A real leader would bring the budget experts and leadership from both houses, sat them down and locked the doors with himself INSIDE the room, and hammered out a deal. I know the left likes to blame tea party members but you have to remember, they are less than 17% of the congress, so they alone have no power. Also you can't say a deal actually existed because there was no legislation that was ever voted on in either house.
Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.
Sure it is, it's one of his promises and one of the tasks democrats are demanding of him. By all measures the rich are taxed too lightly especially since they are the only tax bracket that has experienced adjusted income growth in thirty years. We tax them lightly because they are supposed to be using that extra money to grow the economy, it's how those cuts were sold but wages continue to stagnate and jobs continue to lag far behind their continuing and remarkable increase in wealth. If nothing else we need to send them an unmistakable message that we will expect some trickle down for our national largess in the future.It fell apart because of the republicans mostly because they precipitated the "crisis" in the first place and for some reason just expected democrats to cave in, another terrible miscalculation on their part. In the end I doubt any kind of deal the two brokered would have made it through the house but I feel that the whole mess was so unnecessary, we are the only major country in the world that has a debt ceiling and it does not seem to keep spending down and the effect of holding it hostage is not worth the concessions gained. The approval rating for the house plunged into the low teens and has never recovered, we were downgraded for having so much chaos in our economic deliberations and now we have this "fiscal cliff" that I am not so sure is a bad thing but some are freaking out. We cannot have such recklessness in government no matter what high sounding rationales they use.Honestly what I got out of the article was the possiblility was there, but I can't say it fell apart just because of the republicans. What struck me more than anything is how the president wants to do everything through his staff, keeping his distance and honestly leading from behind. A real leader would bring the budget experts and leadership from both houses, sat them down and locked the doors with himself INSIDE the room, and hammered out a deal. I know the left likes to blame tea party members but you have to remember, they are less than 17% of the congress, so they alone have no power. Also you can't say a deal actually existed because there was no legislation that was ever voted on in either house.
Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.
Actually they can keep voting "no".It fell apart because of the republicans mostly because they precipitated the "crisis" in the first place and for some reason just expected democrats to cave in, another terrible miscalculation on their part. In the end I doubt any kind of deal the two brokered would have made it through the house but I feel that the whole mess was so unnecessary, we are the only major country in the world that has a debt ceiling and it does not seem to keep spending down and the effect of holding it hostage is not worth the concessions gained. The approval rating for the house plunged into the low teens and has never recovered, we were downgraded for having so much chaos in our economic deliberations and now we have this "fiscal cliff" that I am not so sure is a bad thing but some are freaking out. We cannot have such recklessness in government no matter what high sounding rationales they use.
Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.
It is poliitics. After 4 years of childishly saying no nonno.no and no, the Republicans are just gonna have to eat tax hikes on the rich. It is the change voted for on Nov. 6th.
Regards from Rosie
Actually they can keep voting "no".Agreed, but by the same token we can't have a president so stuck on stupid that he will not accept revenue he says he wants unless it carries the lable of taxing the "rich". That's just being childish. It's not leadership.
It is poliitics. After 4 years of childishly saying no nonno.no and no, the Republicans are just gonna have to eat tax hikes on the rich. It is the change voted for on Nov. 6th.
Regards from Rosie
And the Bush tax cuts STILL end.
Want to list the luxuries you think they are demanding? I know this is off-topic but I would really like to know what you think the bare minimum is. Just to get a job you need an address and a phone number plus transportation, child care and clean presentable clothes. Is that stuff too much to ask?
I don't want to sound cold here but your not talking about the majority of the "poor" in this country, there are fringes that do fall through the holes in the net but not the majority. I work with an organization that works with the poor here in my area. People come in with Iphones that cost allot more than any phone I've ever owned. Their cars in many cases are newer than mine and they come in to get free clothes for themselves and their 5-6 children. Even then they try to get more than the organization offers, we even had to lock the toilet paper in the bath room to keep them from stealing it. If you think they show any appreciation for the volunteers that are there for them every week, think again, they do seem to enjoy complaing when the voluneers make them follow the rules. We even offer a hot lunch every week to anyone that comes to the table, we also have a food bank. This is all done because people care and are trying to help, but the more we give the more they want. That is the entitlement mentallity we are fostering and it's not good for them or society as a whole.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a safety net, but it has to have limits and boundries.
Everyone concentrates on taxes, how about we start looking at all the hidden taxes we pay in the form of fees added to our phone, gas, water and electric bills that also provied services to the poor. We can't even write them off a charitable deductions.
It's a tough problem and for every "welfare queen" there are many more who would rather just get a decent job and regain some of their pride, there are no ready solutions and I am not opposed to reforms and cuts but the tone on the right is far too hateful to allow them anywhere near reform especially since you can't even get them to admit that there are far too many jobless and far too few available jobs to just cut people off and force them into steady employment. Real entitlement reform would entail a temporary spending increase to train people and create some jobs for them to do since the market is just terrible at creating entry level employment these days.
Want to list the luxuries you think they are demanding? I know this is off-topic but I would really like to know what you think the bare minimum is. Just to get a job you need an address and a phone number plus transportation, child care and clean presentable clothes. Is that stuff too much to ask?
I don't want to sound cold here but your not talking about the majority of the "poor" in this country, there are fringes that do fall through the holes in the net but not the majority. I work with an organization that works with the poor here in my area. People come in with Iphones that cost allot more than any phone I've ever owned. Their cars in many cases are newer than mine and they come in to get free clothes for themselves and their 5-6 children. Even then they try to get more than the organization offers, we even had to lock the toilet paper in the bath room to keep them from stealing it. If you think they show any appreciation for the volunteers that are there for them every week, think again, they do seem to enjoy complaing when the voluneers make them follow the rules. We even offer a hot lunch every week to anyone that comes to the table, we also have a food bank. This is all done because people care and are trying to help, but the more we give the more they want. That is the entitlement mentallity we are fostering and it's not good for them or society as a whole.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a safety net, but it has to have limits and boundries.
Everyone concentrates on taxes, how about we start looking at all the hidden taxes we pay in the form of fees added to our phone, gas, water and electric bills that also provied services to the poor. We can't even write them off a charitable deductions.
It's a tough problem and for every "welfare queen" there are many more who would rather just get a decent job and regain some of their pride, there are no ready solutions and I am not opposed to reforms and cuts but the tone on the right is far too hateful to allow them anywhere near reform especially since you can't even get them to admit that there are far too many jobless and far too few available jobs to just cut people off and force them into steady employment. Real entitlement reform would entail a temporary spending increase to train people and create some jobs for them to do since the market is just terrible at creating entry level employment these days.
Personally, I think we need to go over the "fiscal cliff" . These DC clowns will never cut spending voluntarily. It's time to stop negotiating, go home, and live with the sequestration and the tax increases. Sure, GDP will take a hit for one year, but the country will be better off in the long run.
I don't want to sound cold here but your not talking about the majority of the "poor" in this country, there are fringes that do fall through the holes in the net but not the majority. I work with an organization that works with the poor here in my area. People come in with Iphones that cost allot more than any phone I've ever owned. Their cars in many cases are newer than mine and they come in to get free clothes for themselves and their 5-6 children. Even then they try to get more than the organization offers, we even had to lock the toilet paper in the bath room to keep them from stealing it. If you think they show any appreciation for the volunteers that are there for them every week, think again, they do seem to enjoy complaing when the voluneers make them follow the rules. We even offer a hot lunch every week to anyone that comes to the table, we also have a food bank. This is all done because people care and are trying to help, but the more we give the more they want. That is the entitlement mentallity we are fostering and it's not good for them or society as a whole.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a safety net, but it has to have limits and boundries.
Everyone concentrates on taxes, how about we start looking at all the hidden taxes we pay in the form of fees added to our phone, gas, water and electric bills that also provied services to the poor. We can't even write them off a charitable deductions.
It's a tough problem and for every "welfare queen" there are many more who would rather just get a decent job and regain some of their pride, there are no ready solutions and I am not opposed to reforms and cuts but the tone on the right is far too hateful to allow them anywhere near reform especially since you can't even get them to admit that there are far too many jobless and far too few available jobs to just cut people off and force them into steady employment. Real entitlement reform would entail a temporary spending increase to train people and create some jobs for them to do since the market is just terrible at creating entry level employment these days.
To second what occupied and to say that there is a world of difference between 'poor' in a well-off area and 'poor' in a poor area. Sounds like the people you see are 'poor' in a wealthy area. Probably why the people who live in wealthy areas think that there is no other kind of poor people but those with their hands out.
Personally, I think we need to go over the "fiscal cliff" . These DC clowns will never cut spending voluntarily. It's time to stop negotiating, go home, and live with the sequestration and the tax increases. Sure, GDP will take a hit for one year, but the country will be better off in the long run.
Strangely enough..I agree with you.
It's a tough problem and for every "welfare queen" there are many more who would rather just get a decent job and regain some of their pride, there are no ready solutions and I am not opposed to reforms and cuts but the tone on the right is far too hateful to allow them anywhere near reform especially since you can't even get them to admit that there are far too many jobless and far too few available jobs to just cut people off and force them into steady employment. Real entitlement reform would entail a temporary spending increase to train people and create some jobs for them to do since the market is just terrible at creating entry level employment these days.
To second what occupied and to say that there is a world of difference between 'poor' in a well-off area and 'poor' in a poor area. Sounds like the people you see are 'poor' in a wealthy area. Probably why the people who live in wealthy areas think that there is no other kind of poor people but those with their hands out.
Some of these people who subscribe to the "welfare queen" theory need to go to some parts of Appalachia and see what American poverty really looks like. I've known the other side of the coin, a poor family too proud for handouts, whatever you think of the welfare queen stereotype the poor but proud family is worse.
