Obama: “Muslim-Americans Are As Patriotic, And American As Any Other Members Of The American Family”

[Dr Grump]

Yet in FRANCE -- the country that decided to ABSORB too many too fast -- Their prisons are 70% Muslim and RISING. That's is just beyond credibility. It's a MONUMENTAL testament to stupidity. So --- I think the only lesson here --- is to NOT MAKE the same long list of mistakes that the Euros have made.

Including their schizoid attitudes about BANNING Muslim religious symbols at the same time that they are ACCOMMODATING the immigrant old world culture and giving UP on assimilation..

I call BS on that 70 percent number. It is from a report that has no verification or peer group review.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW ThoughtCrimes -- I probably did step into it too far and I apologize for that. I am NOT an Islamophobe. And I've spent a fair amount of time trying to kick back against American OVER-reactions to stereotyping and indicting an entire religion.

Should have asked the questions first, rather than lay out a justification for the REAL fears and REAL mistakes that have led to severe internal problems in other western nations.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yet in FRANCE -- the country that decided to ABSORB too many too fast -- Their prisons are 70% Muslim and RISING. That's is just beyond credibility. It's a MONUMENTAL testament to stupidity. So --- I think the only lesson here --- is to NOT MAKE the same long list of mistakes that the Euros have made.

Including their schizoid attitudes about BANNING Muslim religious symbols at the same time that they are ACCOMMODATING the immigrant old world culture and giving UP on assimilation..

I call BS on that 70 percent number. It is from a report that has no verification or peer group review.

What is going wrong in France's prisons?

France's prison population is estimated to be 70 per cent Muslim - and yet there are fewer imams visiting French prisons than British. Critics of the French state say it is no surprise that Islamist recruiters, like those who enticed Paris terrorists Cherif Kouachi and Amedy Coulibaly, are finding prison a fertile hunting ground


After six months of spiritual guidance, Mr Mokhtari’s fellow inmate told him what he really needed to do, upon release, to seek salvation: travel to Iraq, and “kill the infidels”.

Three years after Mr Mokhtari was released, another inmate was following a very similar path. But, unlike Mr Mokhtari, this one would succumb to the brainwashing behind bars – and carry out, on January 7, the worst terrorist attack in France for over 50 years.
Chérif Kouachi was sent to Fleury-Merogis prison – Europe’s largest – in January 2005. While behind bars he met Djamel Beghal, nicknamed Abu Hamza, who was serving ten years for a plot to attack the US embassy in 2001.
Kouachi also met Amedy Coulibaly, who during the three-day coordinated attacks murdered a policewoman and killed four people inside a Jewish supermarket.

It is a worryingly common phenomena across Europe, but especially in France, where at least four men now known to have been radicalised in prison have launched attacks on Europe in the past two years.
Mohamed Merah, the 2012 Toulouse attacker, moved from being a wild petty delinquent to a hardened jihadist while behind bars, and on his release travelled to Afghanistan and Pakistan to train for jihad. He returned to France and murdered seven soldiers and Jewish civilians.
Mehdi Nemouche, author of the May murder of four people in Brussels, was also radicalised in prison – travelling to Syria when he was freed and then coming back to attack the Jewish museum.

Of the 67,500 people currently behind bars in France, it is estimated that 70 per cent are Muslim – when they comprise only eight per cent of the French public. It is illegal under France’s strict laicity laws to count the number of Muslim prisoners, but experts agree that the figure is an accurate average – with some prisons, like those near Paris and Marseille, seeing an even higher percentage. In England and Wales, Muslims account for 14 per cent of the prison population, according to Home Office statistics, and five per cent of the population nationwide.
French authorities state that 283 people are currently in prison for terrorism, of whom 152 are classed as dangerous Islamists. Sixty of them – almost all incarcerated in Paris – are deemed particularly dangerous.

 

[ChrisL]

BTW ThoughtCrimes -- I probably did step into it too far and I apologize for that. I am NOT an Islamophobe. And I've spent a fair amount of time trying to kick back against American OVER-reactions to stereotyping and indicting an entire religion.

Should have asked the questions first, rather than lay out a justification for the REAL fears and REAL mistakes that have led to severe internal problems in other western nations.

I don't see why you would apologize. You didn't say anything that was wrong, and the poster totally overreacted and resorted to insults and cussing immediately.

 

[ChrisL]

Being an "Islamophobe" indicates that you are fearful of Islam. Well, as a woman, yes, I am fearful of Islam taking hold in this country. NOBODY is worth that. Just read Sunni man's posts, and that tells you all you need to know about how they feel about women. He claims that he is a well adjusted and "patriotic" American Muslim. Lol.

 

[flacaltenn]

From one of original sources for this estimate. Paper submitted to French Parliament. There's a link back to older book on the topic from 2004. If you search the web -- Many Arab news sources have also covered this oddity..

N° 2267 tome VI - Avis de M. Guillaume Larrivé sur le projet de loi de finances pour 2015 (n°2234)

However, the abuse of the Muslim religion that constitutes the Islamic radicalization is particularly problematic in prisons, as people of religion and Muslim culture are very clear majority in the prison population in France . Certainly there is no official data on religious affiliation of inmates, due to strict design principles of equality and neutrality of public services in France, which prohibits public authorities to ask people worship they practice
- design that certainly deserves to be relaxed, not least that to assess the need for chaplains of various religions in prisons ( 7 ) .

The lack of official statistics should not help looking at reality, as experienced daily by those in the field and evaluated by observers . Thus, from 2004, Mr. Farhad Khosrokhavar noted in his book Islam in prisons that " Muslims are the majority of the prison population, their rate often exceeding 50%, sometimes approaching 70% or even 80% prisons pockets of "suburbs", eight out of ten prisoners , "while noting that Muslims represented, outside the prisons, that 7-8% of the population living in France ( 8 ) . We can estimate that about 60% of the prison population, 40 000 prisoners, may be regarded as religious or Muslim culture.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

BTW ThoughtCrimes -- I probably did step into it too far and I apologize for that. I am NOT an Islamophobe. And I've spent a fair amount of time trying to kick back against American OVER-reactions to stereotyping and indicting an entire religion.

Should have asked the questions first, rather than lay out a justification for the REAL fears and REAL mistakes that have led to severe internal problems in other western nations.

I agree with what you have said above, and note that anyone can fall into that kind of self designed trap, even myself!! Thank you for your candor!

 

[flacaltenn]

Being an "Islamophobe" indicates that you are fearful of Islam. Well, as a woman, yes, I am fearful of Islam taking hold in this country. NOBODY is worth that. Just read Sunni man's posts, and that tells you all you need to know about how they feel about women. He claims that he is a well adjusted and "patriotic" American Muslim. Lol.

To get anywhere in KEEPING America unique in it's integration and valuable Muslim community, people have to aware of the fears and the threats and not discount them. But we also have to make certain that these fears don't lead to stereotyping and calls for COMPLETE bans and/or expulsions or worse.

Our "you'll be wearing a burkha soon" buddy -- is not a big help in defusing the situation at all.

I did leap in a bit too far before clarifying with ThoughtCrimes. Just sounded dismissive and rude. But maybe you 2 already met and I missed it..

 

[ChrisL]

BTW ThoughtCrimes -- I probably did step into it too far and I apologize for that. I am NOT an Islamophobe. And I've spent a fair amount of time trying to kick back against American OVER-reactions to stereotyping and indicting an entire religion.

Should have asked the questions first, rather than lay out a justification for the REAL fears and REAL mistakes that have led to severe internal problems in other western nations.

I agree with what you have said above, and note that anyone can fall into that kind of self designed trap, even myself!! Thank you for your candor!

I think YOU should apologize to him for freaking out and for your gross potty mouth!

 

[ChrisL]

Being an "Islamophobe" indicates that you are fearful of Islam. Well, as a woman, yes, I am fearful of Islam taking hold in this country. NOBODY is worth that. Just read Sunni man's posts, and that tells you all you need to know about how they feel about women. He claims that he is a well adjusted and "patriotic" American Muslim. Lol.

To get anywhere in KEEPING America unique in it's integration and valuable Muslim community, people have to aware of the fears and the threats and not discount them. But we also have to make certain that these fears don't lead to stereotyping and calls for COMPLETE bans and/or expulsions or worse.

Our "you'll be wearing a burkha soon" buddy -- is not a big help in defusing the situation at all.

I did leap in a bit too far before clarifying with ThoughtCrimes. Just sounded dismissive and rude. But maybe you 2 already met and I missed it..

I think it's pretty clear that he is rude.

 

[ChrisL]

Being an "Islamophobe" indicates that you are fearful of Islam. Well, as a woman, yes, I am fearful of Islam taking hold in this country. NOBODY is worth that. Just read Sunni man's posts, and that tells you all you need to know about how they feel about women. He claims that he is a well adjusted and "patriotic" American Muslim. Lol.

To get anywhere in KEEPING America unique in it's integration and valuable Muslim community, people have to aware of the fears and the threats and not discount them. But we also have to make certain that these fears don't lead to stereotyping and calls for COMPLETE bans and/or expulsions or worse.

Our "you'll be wearing a burkha soon" buddy -- is not a big help in defusing the situation at all.

I did leap in a bit too far before clarifying with ThoughtCrimes. Just sounded dismissive and rude. But maybe you 2 already met and I missed it..

Why not call for a complete ban? Until they "evolve" a bit more anyways. Also, there are our resources to think about. Let their OWN governments/dictators or whatever deal with them. They are really not our problem.

 

[flacaltenn]

Being an "Islamophobe" indicates that you are fearful of Islam. Well, as a woman, yes, I am fearful of Islam taking hold in this country. NOBODY is worth that. Just read Sunni man's posts, and that tells you all you need to know about how they feel about women. He claims that he is a well adjusted and "patriotic" American Muslim. Lol.

To get anywhere in KEEPING America unique in it's integration and valuable Muslim community, people have to aware of the fears and the threats and not discount them. But we also have to make certain that these fears don't lead to stereotyping and calls for COMPLETE bans and/or expulsions or worse.

Our "you'll be wearing a burkha soon" buddy -- is not a big help in defusing the situation at all.

I did leap in a bit too far before clarifying with ThoughtCrimes. Just sounded dismissive and rude. But maybe you 2 already met and I missed it..

Why not call for a complete ban? Until they "evolve" a bit more anyways. Also, there are our resources to think about. Let their OWN governments/dictators or whatever deal with them. They are really not our problem.

I see no reason for them "to evolve". Other than for their OWN reasons of improving their lot. We do too much in lecturing and Democratic Imperialism already. Saudi, to name place is large sponsor of radicalized agitation and proxy warriors. We are not gonna change them. They might evolve a bit because of open trade and world connections. But they are more likely to be over-run by the monsters they helped to create !!!

A complete ban includes business contacts? Overseas Muslim employees of US corporations? Guest academics? Cultural exchanges? Students? Family visitations? Why would we do that.?

If our Govt WORKED correctly -- we'd follow VISAs appropriately. And not miss over-stays and violations. We could trust the vetting process. MAYBE we need to review which countries get RELAXED Visas right now. Or VISAs from conflict areas.

I'm a bit sensitive to this because I know first hand how many people in conflict zones where we had military operations NEED to escape once we withdraw. Their lives and their families are often in jeopardy. THOUSANDS of folks who stuck their necks out for US -- when we were in their country. THOSE people deserve asylum if they qualify and request it.

I agree tho that mass migration and efforts to just "comply with the quotas" that OTHER country are volunteering to take should be put on ice until we have a better process for evaluating the 'ability to assimilate" into a totally different culture.

 

[ChrisL]

Being an "Islamophobe" indicates that you are fearful of Islam. Well, as a woman, yes, I am fearful of Islam taking hold in this country. NOBODY is worth that. Just read Sunni man's posts, and that tells you all you need to know about how they feel about women. He claims that he is a well adjusted and "patriotic" American Muslim. Lol.

To get anywhere in KEEPING America unique in it's integration and valuable Muslim community, people have to aware of the fears and the threats and not discount them. But we also have to make certain that these fears don't lead to stereotyping and calls for COMPLETE bans and/or expulsions or worse.

Our "you'll be wearing a burkha soon" buddy -- is not a big help in defusing the situation at all.

I did leap in a bit too far before clarifying with ThoughtCrimes. Just sounded dismissive and rude. But maybe you 2 already met and I missed it..

Why not call for a complete ban? Until they "evolve" a bit more anyways. Also, there are our resources to think about. Let their OWN governments/dictators or whatever deal with them. They are really not our problem.

I see no reason for them "to evolve". Other than for their OWN reasons of improving their lot. We do too much in lecturing and Democratic Imperialism already. Saudi, to name place is large sponsor of radicalized agitation and proxy warriors. We are not gonna change them. They might evolve a bit because of open trade and world connections. But they are more likely to be over-run by the monsters they helped to create !!!

A complete ban includes business contacts? Overseas Muslim employees of US corporations? Guest academics? Cultural exchanges? Students? Family visitations? Why would we do that.?

If our Govt WORKED correctly -- we'd follow VISAs appropriately. And not miss over-stays and violations. We could trust the vetting process. MAYBE we need to review which countries get RELAXED Visas right now. Or VISAs from conflict areas.

I'm a bit sensitive to this because I know first hand how many people in conflict zones where we had military operations NEED to escape once we withdraw. Their lives and their families are often in jeopardy. THOUSANDS of folks who stuck their necks out for US -- when we were in their country. THOSE people deserve asylum if they qualify and request it.

I agree tho that mass migration and efforts to just "comply with the quotas" that OTHER country are volunteering to take should be put on ice until we have a better process for evaluating the 'ability to assimilate" into a totally different culture.

They kind of need to improve their OWN lot. Things will never get better unless they do. A lot of these places haven't changed since the middle ages.

I don't care about business agreements, etc. I just don't want their ideology imported here. It is dangerous for women and children.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't know what that is, but if I wanted to, I can. Go take your ancient beliefs to Afghanistan where they belong! We women of the United States won't tolerate that crap here.

Why can we live here and practice our religion? ......

Because your "cult" is harmful to women and children. Your cult is threatening to me and my freedom as a woman.

You're a bigot.

You're a dumbass who is blind and deaf. The WOMEN of America come before your precious Muslim immigrants.

Then quit trying to criminalize abortion.

 

[Redfish]

since there are 9 members, and there are only two ideologies, Duh, there will always be a 5 member majority. If the hildebeast gets elected it could be 7/2 in a year. You may think that would be wonderful, but most americans don't.

Most Americans?

Yes, "most" means more than half. a majority. The same majority that thinks Hillary should have been indicted for violating national security laws. The same majority that thinks she is a liar. Yes, MOST

So you just made it up.

If 60% of Americans do not want Roe v Wade overturned, do you think they want judges appointed who were more, or less, likely to vote to overturn Roe v Wade?

If abortion on demand is the most important issue before the SC, then this country is in deep trouble.

If most Americans want marriage equality for gays, do you think they want Supreme Court judges who might overturn the recent ruling in favor of the same?

Most americans want equal treatment for gays. Whether a legal gay union is called a marriage is a totally different question, and a question that should be left up to the voters of each state.

 

[Redfish]

He's right. What's the problem?

Take a look at the no fly list and tell me American Muslims are mainstream.

Hey asshole, next time you're in DC take a trip across the Potomac to Arlington and visit the National Cemetery. You'll see not only Christian Crosses and the Star of David on the headstones, but Crescent Moons also! 3500 Muslim Americans joined the US Armed Forces after 9/11, a number proportionate to the Christian and Jewish populations in the US. Not all of them came back home alive to go on with their life. And Muslims have bled for this Nation since the Revolutionary War, you fool!

If Muslims are good enough to fight and die for this Nation, they definitely deserve the respect any DECENT AMERICAN would afford another American! Stuff your ignorance, bigotry and xenophobic horseshit in your fucking pie hole, scumbag!

Oh wow, Muslims joined the military. Some of them even got out before they started murdering their fellow soldiers too.

I knew I'd get him to trash our military with my post.

Should muslim Major Hassan be trashed? Was he a good American soldier?

 

[Redfish]

since there are 9 members, and there are only two ideologies, Duh, there will always be a 5 member majority. If the hildebeast gets elected it could be 7/2 in a year. You may think that would be wonderful, but most americans don't.

Most Americans?

Yes, "most" means more than half. a majority. The same majority that thinks Hillary should have been indicted for violating national security laws. The same majority that thinks she is a liar. Yes, MOST

So you just made it up.

If 60% of Americans do not want Roe v Wade overturned, do you think they want judges appointed who were more, or less, likely to vote to overturn Roe v Wade?

If abortion on demand is the most important issue before the SC, then this country is in deep trouble.

Nobody said it was. You're the one claiming the country wants anti-abortion judges.

your spin is getting ridiculous on this. What I said is that abortion is the least important issue facing this country.

Many Americans consider abortion the same as murder, many others consider is as the elimination of a troublesome condition. There will never be agreement. But I do believe that a majority of americans believe that the number of abortions should be reduced and that abortion mills/body part merchants should be closed.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most Americans?

Yes, "most" means more than half. a majority. The same majority that thinks Hillary should have been indicted for violating national security laws. The same majority that thinks she is a liar. Yes, MOST

So you just made it up.

If 60% of Americans do not want Roe v Wade overturned, do you think they want judges appointed who were more, or less, likely to vote to overturn Roe v Wade?

If abortion on demand is the most important issue before the SC, then this country is in deep trouble.

If most Americans want marriage equality for gays, do you think they want Supreme Court judges who might overturn the recent ruling in favor of the same?

Most americans want equal treatment for gays. Whether a legal gay union is called a marriage is a totally different question, and a question that should be left up to the voters of each state.

Rights questions should not be left up to the states. That's how you end up with slavery.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most Americans?

Yes, "most" means more than half. a majority. The same majority that thinks Hillary should have been indicted for violating national security laws. The same majority that thinks she is a liar. Yes, MOST

So you just made it up.

If 60% of Americans do not want Roe v Wade overturned, do you think they want judges appointed who were more, or less, likely to vote to overturn Roe v Wade?

If abortion on demand is the most important issue before the SC, then this country is in deep trouble.

Nobody said it was. You're the one claiming the country wants anti-abortion judges.

your spin is getting ridiculous on this. What I said is that abortion is the least important issue facing this country.

Many Americans consider abortion the same as murder, many others consider is as the elimination of a troublesome condition. There will never be agreement. But I do believe that a majority of americans believe that the number of abortions should be reduced and that abortion mills/body part merchants should be closed.

Most Americans do not want Roe v. Wade overturned. Trump has promised an anti-abortion litmus test for judicial appointments. That's one strike against Trump.

 

[NYcarbineer]

He's right. What's the problem?

Take a look at the no fly list and tell me American Muslims are mainstream.

Hey asshole, next time you're in DC take a trip across the Potomac to Arlington and visit the National Cemetery. You'll see not only Christian Crosses and the Star of David on the headstones, but Crescent Moons also! 3500 Muslim Americans joined the US Armed Forces after 9/11, a number proportionate to the Christian and Jewish populations in the US. Not all of them came back home alive to go on with their life. And Muslims have bled for this Nation since the Revolutionary War, you fool!

If Muslims are good enough to fight and die for this Nation, they definitely deserve the respect any DECENT AMERICAN would afford another American! Stuff your ignorance, bigotry and xenophobic horseshit in your fucking pie hole, scumbag!

Oh wow, Muslims joined the military. Some of them even got out before they started murdering their fellow soldiers too.

I knew I'd get him to trash our military with my post.

Should muslim Major Hassan be trashed? Was he a good American soldier?

He trashed all Muslims in the military.