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I agree. My contention is that this includes the Pope.OH for Pete's sake.
STFU!
The entire point is that no US President should ever bow to anyone. I don't care which President you are talking about if they bowed to another ruler they were WRONG.
It's as simple as that.
*YOU* Continue to be IGNORANT.
Except I'm not. I'm still waiting for you to post some evidence that the U.S.A. is a Christian Nation.
I agree. My contention is that this includes the Pope.OH for Pete's sake.
STFU!
The entire point is that no US President should ever bow to anyone. I don't care which President you are talking about if they bowed to another ruler they were WRONG.
It's as simple as that.
*YOU* Continue to be IGNORANT.
Except I'm not. I'm still waiting for you to post some evidence that the U.S.A. is a Christian Nation.
The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
_________
How much more proof do you need? The Founders codified it with the Constitution.
___________
And BTW? *YOU* still remain ignorant, and FEAR GOD.
Unfortunately, that's what's being argued.I agree. My contention is that this includes the Pope.OH for Pete's sake.
STFU!
The entire point is that no US President should ever bow to anyone. I don't care which President you are talking about if they bowed to another ruler they were WRONG.
It's as simple as that.
Of course that includes the Pope.
Except I'm not. I'm still waiting for you to post some evidence that the U.S.A. is a Christian Nation.
The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
_________
How much more proof do you need? The Founders codified it with the Constitution.
___________
And BTW? *YOU* still remain ignorant, and FEAR GOD.
Declaration of independence is not the Constitution nor does it have any legal holding today. Also, it never says Christian God. So even if it did include religion, not necessary Christian.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDW0ZnZxjn4[/ame]
But YOU don't KNOW the progression NOR do you care. The Declaration was their NOTICE to the KING of England based upon their acknowledgement of something higher than themselves, and that would be GOD that the KING also had a belief in.
The Founders CALLED HIM ON IT. And King George III LOST the arguement.
The Constitution Codified the Declaration, and was RATIFIED. The First Amendment Also Recognized it.
*FACE IT*. You've been BESTED by HISTORY, and YOU cannot stand it.
*I* Have Hsstory, and the Founders on my side. The best YOU can do is unfounded rhetoric.
We are not governed by the Declaration. Its purpose was to "dissolve the political bands," not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based on the idea that "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. It deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, and so on, never discussing religion at all.
The references to "Nature's God," "Creator," and "Divine Providence" in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Thomas Jefferson, its author, was a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.
But YOU don't KNOW the progression NOR do you care. The Declaration was their NOTICE to the KING of England based upon their acknowledgement of something higher than themselves, and that would be GOD that the KING also had a belief in.
The Founders CALLED HIM ON IT. And King George III LOST the arguement.
The Constitution Codified the Declaration, and was RATIFIED. The First Amendment Also Recognized it.
*FACE IT*. You've been BESTED by HISTORY, and YOU cannot stand it.
*I* Have Hsstory, and the Founders on my side. The best YOU can do is unfounded rhetoric.
What are you? Drunk?
Do you not know Locke and where he got his theories from? It wasn't from any Christian nation, that much I can tell you.
Is America a Christian Nation?
Read it and weep:
We are not governed by the Declaration. Its purpose was to "dissolve the political bands," not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based on the idea that "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. It deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, and so on, never discussing religion at all.
The references to "Nature's God," "Creator," and "Divine Providence" in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Thomas Jefferson, its author, was a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.
"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'"
"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
"All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
"What is it the Bible teaches us? -- rapine, cruelty, and murder."
"The Bible was established altogether by the sword, and that in the worst use of it -- not to terrify but to extirpate."
"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible."
"Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian."
Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]
People familiar with the bible do not fear burning in hell after death. You would have to be conscious to be aware you are burning!!!YOU fear GOD. YOU fear things beyond your control, and FEAR burning in HELL for just being YOU DogBoy.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws.
The Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations.
The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and the attributes of God.
[June 28, 1813; Letter to Thomas Jefferson
Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell."
Except Jefferson who wrote the Constitution was a Deist. And the other founders whether they were Christian or not had made a law specifically that there would be no establishment of one religion. Which means that the U.S. is not a Christian nation or any sort of religious nation.
What words of the Founders do you have? Other than a document which I have shown clearly has nothing to do with God. You have no idea of the foundation of Liberalism which was Locke who did not get his ideas from a Christian society.
From Jefferson's Biography:
"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'"
From Franklin's Autobiography, Pg 66:
"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
Thomas Paine, some quotes from his "Age of Reason"
Ethan Allen's Religion of the American Enlightenment:
"Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian."
Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]
They were Freemasons if you recall as well.
Kalem, your ignorance is very refreshing, like when you stated that the USSR was part of the western world. Now you claim a treaty with tripoli defines the USA as not founded on Christianity.
Except the premise you cite is a false one. Nowhere in the Declaration does it say Christian God. The Founding Fathers as a majority rejected the idea of adding Christ into their documents. The United States of America was the first modern Liberal state. And if you know anything about Liberalism in the 1700's, then you would know that Christianity was the last thing of many of these people's minds. The Declaration was not a document establishing any religion at all.
All you did was yell. If you cared to read early, you'll read that the writer of the Declaration was a Deist. So what do you think God they were talking about? Nowhere does it say Christian God and that's a fact.
You didn't pull no rug, however, you did just happen to vomit all over your own rug.
*YOU* Continue to be IGNORANT.
Except I'm not. I'm still waiting for you to post some evidence that the U.S.A. is a Christian Nation.
The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
_________
How much more proof do you need? The Founders codified it with the Constitution.
___________
And BTW? *YOU* still remain ignorant, and FEAR GOD.
