Obama and McCain Debate: Round 2

[CrimsonWhite]

As an Obama supporter I want to say that I disagree with irrelevant insults directed at either candidate. I do think John McCain deserves a certain amount of personal respect due to his service. However, I think sometimes, his service is placed on an overly high pedastal in the sense that those who died in service did not sacrifice any less than John McCain, they just don't have a physical presence to remind us of our soldiers who sacrifice. I will treat John McCain with a certain amount of dignity. His polices, and his statements made in the political forum, are open game. They are unrelated to his service and are a choice he makes in becoming a public figure. I do not think he should use his service as a political tool as much as he does, but he earned his status and so it is his to choose to hold as sacred or profane.

That being said, I have a cousin who is really more like a brother to me that I often talk politics with. This cousin is retired from the military and attended West Point. For years, he has held McCain in the highest respect and indeed, Bush lost his support completely when he ran the diry primary campaign in 2000. The republicans in general, except for McCain who did the right thing and called it dishonorable, lost his respect when they did not speak out in harshest terms against the swift-boating of John Kerry which he felt were disgraceful and insulting to anyone who ever won a bronze star or purple heart. He thought McCain might be his guy this year, but to be honest, he was bothered by McCain's willingness to endorse Bush and "buddy" up to him since the 2000 smear campaign. He felt McCain was allowing his ambition to compromise his values a little. And throughout this campaign year, he has slowly come to the decision that though he cannot ever disregard or disrespect McCain's service or sacrifice, he does not believe McCain has demonstrated the character or leadership he was hoping for, and furthermore, is supporting policies that are not in the best interest of the country, but rather ideologically driven. He is disappointed and has stated flatly that he will not vote for McCain. Whether he will vote for Obama he has not yet decided.

I think, in many ways this reflects my perception on McCain. I respect his past, but it in no way makes me feel he is more appropriate to lead this country. And though I fundamentally disagree with him and think he has made some poor decisions as a politician, I would be disappointed to see other progressives insulting him personally. Just as I am disappointed seeing a man with honor in his service record, be so dishonorable as to attack a rival with this nonsensical William Ayers stuff.

I feel the same way, but I won't show disrespect by making old man shits his pants jokes.

 

[N4mddissent]

I feel the same way, but I won't show disrespect by making old man shits his pants jokes.

And I agree with you. Those are unncessary and irrelevant and disrespectful. As I have said to fellow progressives in the past, you should learn that sometimes you do more to help your cause by learning to shut the hell up. I personally believe that most (not all) progressive policies can be defended and supported on a factual basis or at least through reason and logic. Juvenile insults just make your cause look hollow and tarnish your allies.

 

[jschuck12001]

I feel the same way, but I won't show disrespect by making old man shits his pants jokes.

If he did shit his pants it wouldnt be because he was old but because he just lost his beloved town hall meeting he has sought for so long.

 

[Chris]

McCain left to call Mitt Romney to see if he would agree to replace Palin on the ticket.

 

[kane3o1]

MSNBC - "10:43" McCain and his wife left.

Obama stayed for least twenty minutes after the debate.

What was John McCain's excuse? On his way back to Washington for another bill?

 

[N4mddissent]

By the way, to my fellow Obama supporters, let the "that one" comment die. It's silly. Just I have defended comments made by progressives, whether it is Obama's "lipstick on a pig" comment, or people trying to manipulate something Joe Biden said about coal plants in America, this is a simple off-hand comment that I don't believe had any deeper meaning than McCain saying guess which candidate voted for it, that one. He just didn't say the "guess which candidate" part. Reading racial or dismissiveness into it is reaching. I did notice the not shaking hands at the end, and body language tells me there is a certain amount of disdain toward Obama by McCain, but in all honesty, that doesn't matter nearly as much as the issues and it's just speculation. Speculation wasted on unimportant matters. Don't waste time on this progressives.

 

[N4mddissent]

What was John McCain's excuse? On his way back to Washington for another bill?

This however, is an acceptable piece of humor at McCain's expense in my opinion.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

And I agree with you. Those are unncessary and irrelevant and disrespectful. As I have said to fellow progressives in the past, you should learn that sometimes you do more to help your cause by learning to shut the hell up. I personally believe that most (not all) progressive policies can be defended and supported on a factual basis or at least through reason and logic. Juvenile insults just make your cause look hollow and tarnish your allies.

I agree wholly. There are several progressive issues that I could get behind.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

McCain left to call Mitt Romney to see if he would agree to replace Palin on the ticket.

Now that's funny.

 

[kane3o1]

ATTN: CrimsonWhite

Would you feel comfortable with Sarah Palin as President of the United States? Do you think she is qualified? Do you think McCain put the country 1st by choosing her or do you think he chose her sorely just to lure in those Hillary Clinton female votes?

 

[kane3o1]

Updated CNN.com poll:

Who fared better in Tuesday's presidential debate?

Sen. John McCain 17% 30754
Sen. Barack Obama 79% 146520
No clear winner 4% 7756
Total Votes: 185030

 

[N4mddissent]

I agree wholly. There are several progressive issues that I could get behind.

And there are times when I find myself on the conservative side of issues. (Just not very frequently). Primarily, I tend to be with conservatives on certain issues of gun control, but my ideas on that are a little wacky and unrealistic as I will readily admit. I think that the free market is an engine that drives ingenuity and creativity, but also that is inherently weak to subversion through greed and human fallibility. I believe multi-culturalism is a good thing, but post-modernism as I understand it is ridiculous. I believe science trumps superstition, that liberty trumps security, and that being elite isn't a bad thing. If I want my doctor or lawyer to have the best education possible, I think it is only consistent that I want an educated president as well.

 

[DavidS]

Updated CNN.com poll:

Who fared better in Tuesday's presidential debate?

Sen. John McCain 17% 30754
Sen. Barack Obama 79% 146520
No clear winner 4% 7756
Total Votes: 185030

Ouch.

 

[N4mddissent]

MSNBC Poll Obama 83 McCain 13
Fox News online poll: Obama 69 McCain 31
Obama won among undecided voters in the CBS Poll. 40-26
CNN/ORC Obama 54 McCain 30

The other CNN result was the online poll. The CNN/ORC is a national poll with over 600 respondents. One of the more outstanding stats in the CNN/ORC poll in my opinion was this:

A majority, 54 percent, said Obama seemed to be the stronger leader during the debate, to 43 percent for McCain.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

That about sums it up:

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - CNN Poll: Obama won the night - Blogs from CNN.com

NASHVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) — A national poll of debate watchers suggests that Barack Obama won the second presidential debate.

Fifty-four percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey conducted after the debate ended said that Obama did the best job in the debate, with 30 percent saying John McCain performed better.

A majority, 54 percent, said Obama seemed to be the stronger leader during the debate, to 43 percent for McCain. By a greater than two to one margin — 65 percent to 28 percent — viewers thought Obama was more likeable during the debate.

A majority of debate watchers polled thought Obama was more intelligent, by a 57 percent to 25 percent margin over McCain. Twice as many debate watchers also thought Obama more clearly expressed than McCain, with 60 percent giving the nod to the Democratic nominee and 30 percent to his GOP opponent.

Hands down, debate watchers questioned thought McCain rather than Obama spent more time attacking his opponent: 63 percent said McCain went more negative, as opposed to 17 percent who pointed to Obama.

Half of those polled say Obama answered questions more directly, 13 points ahead of McCain, and by a 14 point advantage debate watchers thought Obama seemed to care more about the probelms of audience members who asked questions.

McCain did come out on top in one category that neither candidate wants to win: By a 16 point margin, debate watchers thought McCain seemed more like a typical politician during the debate.

Ouch, indeed.

 

[Modbert]

MSNBC Poll Obama 83 McCain 13
Fox News online poll: Obama 69 McCain 31
Obama won among undecided voters in the CBS Poll. 40-26
CNN/ORC Obama 54 McCain 30

The other CNN result was the online poll. The CNN/ORC is a national poll with over 600 respondents. One of the more outstanding stats in the CNN/ORC poll in my opinion was this:

You know it's a rough night for McCain campaign when McCain loses the fox poll.

 

[jillian]

You know it's a rough night for McCain campaign when McCain loses the fox poll.

Heh... But he lost last time, too. And the debate really WAS boring. This was supposed to be McCain's milleau, but was a snorefest.

 

[editec]

I won't abandon my principles due to the indiscretions of one man and hs administration. My Republican principles haven't changed.

I don't blame you, CW.

the thing is, Republicans like yourself have to wrestle the party out of the hand sof the like of Rove.

Good luck with that.

You saw what they did to McCain when he got in their way.

The people currently running your party have zero integrity. They are an insult to honest Republicans (and there are a LOT of those, I think)

Not the rank and file Republican's faults, of course, but you guys DID put them in power because of parety loyalty.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

But my friend, don't you know we're in a crises? My friend, cmon my friend, you know what I mean my friend

 

[rayboyusmc]

Once more Obama came across as the more "Presidential"

Why doesn't John just pack up his wife and her 60 million and stay in his 2.7 million home in Arizona? Oh - Sorry, it's a power thing.

Hell, he could buy a small island, stock it with old mavericks, and then he would be the trail boss. Getr along little doggies. It's all your misfortune and most of my own.