Obama and Biden very anti Gun owner, and Gun Rights .

[busara]

Indeed, Im one of those "EVIDENCE > rhetorical bullshit" sorta dudes..

made to be a weapon or not a BASEBALL BAT becomes such in the hands of a person who decides to wield it as one. It doesn't matter at all if the intention of a steak knife is to cut a t-bone when it's sticking out of the chest of a victim.

so, no. a gun should not be treated differently than any other tool... HAMMER. AXE. KNIFE. etc. Your opinion is noted and trashed.

wow, i didnt realize you could just say "youre wrong" and make it so.

so you dont want any weapon to have restrictions? there should be no waiting period on a gun? we should be allowed to own rpg's, land mines, tanks, F-15's, howitzers, cruise missiles.......

 

[busara]

That's just silly. All tools are treated differently. You have to have a CDL to drive a truck commercially. You have to have a license to use explosives. YOu have to be certified to handle PESTICIDES.

Guns are no different, and just because people are scared of them doesn't mean they should be removed from the rest of us. And I don't hear much squawking about reasonable limitations on their sale and use. But we have laws to keep us from killing each other, and changing the accessability of guns for law abiding citizens isn't going to make any difference, except perhaps to make those who do abide by the laws less safe.

I have still not heard any one of the control freaks who think NOBODY should be able to have guns explain why the crime rate ESCALATES in tandem with higher gun restrictions in US cities.

yes, theyre treated differently! exactly!! shogun seems to be saying that since anything could be a weapon, there should be no differences in how guns are treated then from, say, a dinner plate. a gun is treated the way it is because it is designed as a weapon. a dinner plate is not. all i'm saying is that it needs to be treated differently because it is made to be a weapon.
see, we agree.

 

[busara]

I was just having a little fun with word games......but....

A gun "is" a weapon......and the 2nd amendment clearly protects the freedom to individual ownership of them. Although you say you agree with this.....I see many strings attached to this in your posts.

If people have a problem with the "Main" purpose of a gun......which is essentially.....a bullet launching platform.......and the bullet is designed as a penetrative wound channel maker..........then I say...."What else should I use in the event that this particular "tool" is the only feasible answer in a particular situation?????

strings attached? like what? i havent clearly stated how i feel about gun restrictions, but apparently you decided i did. please, tell me what strings ive been advocating.

and a gun can be the only answer? i thought a bat was just a dangerous and effective?

 

[strollingbones]

one must remember that people who have never handled guns, have no concepts except for tv shows and video games.

as one poster said , the loading of a 12 gauge is enough to scare the shit outta anyone.....so nicely put...but to someone who has no concept of that...it means nothing....what it means to gun owners and to the person hearing the sound...that now we are all locked and loaded.....stops many a home invasions etc. of course in your civilized world this doesnt ever happen...meanwhile back at the reality ranch many of us depend on guns for self defense. you may not see the uncivilized out there...but they are there....really to prey on anyone they get the change to prey on.

 

[SFC_TMC915]

Did I miss something, or did Obama say that he's okay with guns for hunting as well as the right to own hand guns but that he's opposed to the sale of assault weapons? I have experience with assault weapons, I own a hand gun, I have a permit to carry for self protection, but I honestly can't imagine why any hunter or anyone else needs to own an assault weapons??? I'm opposed to gun laws because they're not going to deter criminals from getting their hands on weapons. But again, why the need to own an assault weapon??

 

[Chris]

Did I miss something, or did Obama say that he's okay with guns for hunting as well as the right to own hand guns but that he's opposed to the sale of assault weapons? I have experience with assault weapons, I own a hand gun, I have a permit to carry for self protection, but I honestly can't imagine why any hunter or anyone else needs to own an assault weapons??? I'm opposed to gun laws because they're not going to deter criminals from getting their hands on weapons. But again, why the need to own an assault weapon??

One million Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

 

[SFC_TMC915]

True. No argument there. But laws are for law-abiding citizens. If you think criminals won't get their hands on guns (and they're the ones for MOST of those murders) I think you're being a little naive. Just as they get their hands on drugs, they'll get their hands on guns. A total ban on firearms is like shooting a mouse with an elephant gun (no pun intended).

 

[Chris]

True. No argument there. But laws are for law-abiding citizens. If you think criminals won't get their hands on guns (and they're the ones for MOST of those murders) I think you're being a little naive. Just as they get their hands on drugs, they'll get their hands on guns. A total ban on firearms is like shooting a mouse with an elephant gun (no pun intended).

Criminals get guns by stealing them from "law abiding citizens." The gun owners are the ones providing criminals with guns. It's a public service.

 

[busara]

Criminals get guns by stealing them from "law abiding citizens." The gun owners are the ones providing criminals with guns. It's a public service.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

theres a lot more in the article too, kirk

 

[Shogun]

One million Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

how many have been killed by VEHICLES?

 

[necritan]

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS



theres a lot more in the article too, kirk

Its a felony to sell a gun to a criminal or gang-banger. Lax punishments are the cause for our problems.....not lax restrictions.

 

[necritan]

Did I miss something, or did Obama say that he's okay with guns for hunting as well as the right to own hand guns but that he's opposed to the sale of assault weapons? I have experience with assault weapons, I own a hand gun, I have a permit to carry for self protection, but I honestly can't imagine why any hunter or anyone else needs to own an assault weapons??? I'm opposed to gun laws because they're not going to deter criminals from getting their hands on weapons. But again, why the need to own an assault weapon??

What is an "Assault Weapon" and why does it scare you???? Shall we have a citizen militia armed with 3-shot hunting rifles....or perhaps armed with 6-shot Single Action Cowboy Revolvers????

Please.....someone tell me what an assault weapon is.......and why its sooooo scary. Please give me the defining features of an assault weapon that set it apart from say....a shotgun.....and how when it gets in the hands of a lawfull citizen...they immediately transform into a criminal hell-bent on death and destruction????


I think its funny how the libs want to take the exact type of weapon necessary to defend against an oppressive government......it soooo obvious.....the whole...."AK's in the hands of criminal" excuse is just laughable......


FWIW - Just to educate a bit.......an AR-style rifle properly set up makes a hell of a good hunting rifle....due to its light weight....they are becoming more and more popular for hunters rather than lugging around that heavy old steel and wood bolt action.......

And yes....an AR-15 is commonly refered to as an "Assault Rifle"........and yes.....they are an effective hunting tool.

 

[necritan]

and here we agree (shake hands). i support the right to own guns, mainly because it is the second amendment. but for the purpose of protection you dont need an assault rifle. a shotgun will scare people from your home just fine.

Here's a nice...big....fat string attached.

Once again......how does one defend its country from tyranical oppression....or God forbid.....invasion.

Tell me what an Assault rifle is.....what its features are....why they scare you....and why you dont believe the second amendment protects this ownership??????

 

[necritan]

If the argument against Assault rifle's lies in the fact that they are more inherently dangerous then say....a regular gun.....than why are cars made that are capable of exceeding triple the speed limit? In the hands of a responsible car owner.....a Corvette Z06 poses no threat to other citizens.

 

[necritan]

One million Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

Wow....did you type that out this time??? Or did you cut and paste it to change things up a bit. Your repetitive BS is a sign that you have zero knowledge on the subject....and are merely a political ass-puppet , A mouth piece for the ignorant masses......and a waste of human existence.

 

[SFC_TMC915]

No argument from me that assault weapons have a time and place. The everday citizen does NOT need an assault weapon. Why would anyone need a weapon that can shoot 3 round bursts? Why does any citizen need a machine gun? You are aware that most police departments are out armed by the criminals that they're supposed to protect us from . . . right? Did you know that when they deploy the National Guard within the borders of the states, that they're given an M-16 clip WITHOUT rounds. How stupid is that? And don't even try to tell me that that isn't true because I have first hand experience . . . I'm not basing that statement on hearsay. Anyone who truly believes that the government (or "the establishment") as some fanatics refer to it, are truly against the rights of it's citizens or that they have a strong desire keep it's citizens down need to move to Iraq or some other God-forsaken country where that fact is true!!!

 

[necritan]

No argument from me that assault weapons have a time and place. The everday citizen does NOT need an assault weapon. Why would anyone need a weapon that can shoot 3 round bursts? Why does any citizen need a machine gun? You are aware that most police departments are out armed by the criminals that they're supposed to protect us from . . . right? Did you know that when they deploy the National Guard within the borders of the states, that they're given an M-16 clip WITHOUT rounds. How stupid is that? And don't even try to tell me that that isn't true because I have first hand experience . . . I'm not basing that statement on hearsay. Anyone who truly believes that the government (or "the establishment") as some fanatics refer to it, are truly against the rights of it's citizens or that they have a strong desire keep it's citizens down need to move to Iraq or some other God-forsaken country where that fact is true!!!

Assault weapons as defined in the original AWB have three shot burst capabilities???? And who the hell was talking about machine guns???

I'd rather have a semi-automatic FAL than a full auto version any day.....

Are you calling me a fanatic????

God forsaken countries are generally ones consisting of unarmed citizens. I'm just doing what I can to prevent the USA from achieving "God-forsaken" status......

 

[necritan]

You are aware that most police departments are out armed by the criminals that they're supposed to protect us from . . . right?

Nope.....not aware of this. I see more and more LE's with an AR in their squad car......that maybe a result of the Hollywood shoot out......not to mention the Mossy 12 gauge....the issue Sig p226 and possibly some sort of B.U.G. in the form of a snubbie revolver or compact SemiAuto 9mm or .380.

If criminals are so insanely armed.....then why limit the law abiding folks....including the LEO's and national guard????

 

[SFC_TMC915]

LOL -- I just realized you're from California. That explains a lot. By the way, I don't think you read my post thoroughly . . . I said the police and the guard should have assault weapons. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Like I said . . . I have a gun, I've fired automatic weapons (as a matter of fact I carried one for 9 months overseas). My personal OPINION is that there should be some restrictions on what weapons the average citizen can purchase. My personal OPINION is that the democrats aren't going to be knocking on your door taking your personally owned weapons. My personal OPINION is that anyone who thinks the democrats are going to ban all weapons needs to get a little more educated on the subject. But again, these are just my opinions.

 

[necritan]

LOL -- I just realized you're from California. That explains a lot. By the way, I don't think you read my post thoroughly . . . I said the police and the guard should have assault weapons. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

There is no question we are going to disagree....for sure.

I am quite educated on this matter....believe me.....or don't.

Aside from all that........How are the lives of individuals bearing uniforms and badges of more importance than mine and my families?????

What does CA have to do with anything???? If anything....you should be suprised that a freedom loving non-socialist could survive in such conditions.