NYT - A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn’t Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

[ShootSpeeders]

One of the basic tenants of our justice system is that it is supposed to be impartial and equal for all.

And yet affirmative action programs are everywhere and you liberals support them!! THINK

 

[longknife]

One of the basic tenants of our justice system is that it is supposed to be impartial and equal for all.

And yet affirmative action programs are everywhere and you liberals support them!! THINK

Lord amighty! Don't call ME a Liberal. I'll have nightmares.

 

[Zander]

It is not only stupid, it is unconstitutional - google the 14th Amendment- equal protection

 

[del]

So, because I happen to make $80K+ a year and get my first moving violation ever, I shoild pay a higher fine than the lazy waste if flesh and oxygen who is,gettig a ticket, simply because he only makes $25K a year?

You'll never get me to agree with that idea.

yeah, that's it in a nutshell

you'll do what you're told, as usual

 

[MarathonMike]

Are the rich people going to subsidize poor people's fines or is everyone going to at least pay a 'base fine'? How do you define 'rich'? Do you envision fine brackets similar to tax brackets based on income level? I see lots of problems with this approach.

 

[Anathema]

yeah, that's it in a nutshell. you'll do what you're told, as usual

I think that might be enough to get me to ignore those flashing lights behind me, exceed the speed limit, drive the wrong way on the highway and be more than prepared to go far less than quietly at the end of the night. I say that as someone who does not have a single moving violation (2 parking tickets) on my record after more than a quarter century driving motor vehicles.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Maybe...just maybe fine amounts are out of control because cities cant control their spending

 

[del]

yeah, that's it in a nutshell. you'll do what you're told, as usual

I think that might be enough to get me to ignore those flashing lights behind me, exceed the speed limit, drive the wrong way on the highway and be more than prepared to go far less than quietly at the end of the night. I say that as someone who does not have a single moving violation (2 parking tickets) on my record after more than a quarter century driving motor vehicles.

that's your decision to make

do stupid shit, win stupid prizes

i'm sorry that equitable treatment upsets you so.

 

[del]

We also need to suspend drivers licenses for traffic offenders. That hurts every offender, rich and poor

Opinion | A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn’t Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

marh 15 2018 For people living on the economic margins, even minor offenses can impose crushing financial obligations, trapping them in a cycle of debt and incarceration for nonpayment. In Ferguson, Mo., for example, a single $151 parking violation sent a black woman struggling with homelessness into a seven-year odyssey of court appearances, arrest warrants and jail time connected to her inability to pay.

Across America, one-size-fits-all fines are the norm, which I demonstrate in an article for the University of Chicago Law Review. Where judges do have wiggle room to choose the size of a fine, mandatory minimums and maximums often tie their hands. Some states even prohibit consideration of a person’s income. And when courts are allowed to take finances into account, they frequently fail to do so.

Other places have saner methods. Finland and Argentina, for example, have tailored fines to income for almost 100 years. The most common model, the “day fine,” scales sanctions to a person’s daily wage. A small offense like littering might cost a fraction of a day’s pay. A serious crime might swallow a month’s paycheck. Everyone pays the same proportion of their income.

One of the basic tenants of our justice system is that it is supposed to be impartial and equal for all.

We know it isn't but, in this case, fines are supposed to be fixed and apply to all equally.

Commit the crime - pay the fine! Period.

if everyone pays 0.2% (to pick a number out of thin air) of their income as a fine, how is that not impartial and equal?

and it's tenets, not tenants

you're welcome

 

[Anathema]

that's your decision to make. do stupid shit, win stupid prizes

i'm sorry that equitable treatment upsets you so.

What you're suggesting is NOT equitable treatment. It's an extra punishment for those of us who work hard and have made something of ourselves.

 

[del]

that's your decision to make. do stupid shit, win stupid prizes

i'm sorry that equitable treatment upsets you so.

What you're suggesting is NOT equitable treatment. It's an extra punishment for those of us who work hard and have made something of ourselves.

no, it isn't, even though you think it is

if everyone pays the same percentage, it is by definition equitable

 

[Anathema]

no, it isn't, even though you think it is

if everyone pays the same percentage, it is by definition equitable

Percentage of WHAT, though? We're not talking about fraud or some other monetary crime here. We're not talking about a crime where anyone is making money off of it. So that suggests your looking at the percentage of someone's daily wage, weekly or monthly income, or some similar characteristic which is in no way connected to the infraction. That's horse manure so far as I'm concerned.

 

[del]

no, it isn't, even though you think it is

if everyone pays the same percentage, it is by definition equitable

Percentage of WHAT, though? We're not talking about fraud or some other monetary crime here. We're not talking about a crime where anyone is making money off of it. So that suggests your looking at the percentage of someone's daily wage, weekly or monthly income, or some similar characteristic which is in no way connected to the infraction. That's horse manure so far as I'm concerned.

the purpose of the fine is to discourage the behavior being fined.

i can take $50 or $100 whacks all day long and not really suffer for it, so where is the disincentive there?

$50 or $100 would be onerous to someone less fortunate

a percentage of income provides a fair way to accomplish the desired effect

 

[Anathema]

the purpose of the fine is to discourage the behavior being fined.

i can take $50 or $100 whacks all day long and not really suffer for it, so where is the disincentive there?

$50 or $100 would be onerous to someone less fortunate

a percentage of income provides a fair way to accomplish the desired effect

Very simple. The first fine is some amount. The second fine is double that. The third is loss of license for 6 months. The fourth is loss of license permanently. THERE is your disincentive.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Are the rich people going to subsidize poor people's fines or is everyone going to at least pay a 'base fine'? How do you define 'rich'? Do you envision fine brackets similar to tax brackets based on income level? I see lots of problems with this approach.

Everyone caught doing 20- 25 mph over the limit pays $100 plus say 1% of income based on tax returns. A guy who makes 70 thou would pay $800. There is no need to define "rich". THINK

 

[ShootSpeeders]

What you're suggesting is NOT equitable treatment. It's an extra punishment for those of us who work hard and have made something of ourselves.

Hey einstein. Do you think everyone should pay the same income tax irregardless of income? Not the same per cent; the actual same amount say $1500. THINK

 

[Anathema]

Hey einstein. Do you think everyone should pay the same income tax irregardless of income? Not the same per cent; the actual same amount say $1500. THINK

Taxes and Criminal/Civil Fines are two totally different topics, sir. Please choose which one you would care to discuss and I'll be more than happy to continue the conversation.