Now that Franken has resigned...

[ptbw forever]

https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/Pub_Minding the campus combined files.pdf

You know what? You're right, the university study has a lot of truth in it. Affirmative Action at the university level is a hot mess. You win points for that one.

At the hiring level, in business, not so much. Different companies apply Affirmative Action with varying degrees of success. The industry I work in, or worked in (Film-TV production - semi-retired now) has had a lot of success.
The tech industry has done well for the most part, and healthcare is well represented.
Even the financial industry is doing better.

That doesn't mean that all businesses understand how to apply it, and it doesn't mean that civil service knows how to either, at least not at the city or county level.
I'm still going to bring the Supreme Court arguments in for New Haven but you win on the university points.

You're still wrong about Affirmative Action being reverse racism.
Failure to understand, implement and apply AA is the responsibility of those who are tasked with doing so.
The idea is to present equal opportunities that were not historically available.

The only difference between universities and businesses is the fact that businesses can’t import semi-intelligent 3rd worlders whenever they want via scholarships.

Businesses also have to keep up production at a higher level than universities, so they can’t just hire anyone who fits their quota.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/Pub_Minding the campus combined files.pdf

You know what? You're right, the university study has a lot of truth in it. Affirmative Action at the university level is a hot mess. You win points for that one.

At the hiring level, in business, not so much. Different companies apply Affirmative Action with varying degrees of success. The industry I work in, or worked in (Film-TV production - semi-retired now) has had a lot of success.
The tech industry has done well for the most part, and healthcare is well represented.
Even the financial industry is doing better.

That doesn't mean that all businesses understand how to apply it, and it doesn't mean that civil service knows how to either, at least not at the city or county level.
I'm still going to bring the Supreme Court arguments in for New Haven but you win on the university points.

You're still wrong about Affirmative Action being reverse racism.
Failure to understand, implement and apply AA is the responsibility of those who are tasked with doing so.
The idea is to present equal opportunities that were not historically available.

The only difference between universities and businesses is the fact that businesses can’t import semi-intelligent 3rd worlders whenever they want via scholarships.

Businesses also have to keep up production at a higher level than universities, so they can’t just hire anyone who fits their quota.

Au contraire, it's called an H1-B visa.
They can, and do. And those H1-B visa holders typically get less pay.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Correll]

https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/Pub_Minding the campus combined files.pdf

You know what? You're right, the university study has a lot of truth in it. Affirmative Action at the private university level is a hot mess. You win points for that one.

At the hiring level, in business, not so much. Different companies apply Affirmative Action with varying degrees of success. The industry I work in, or worked in (Film-TV production - semi-retired now) has had a lot of success.
The tech industry has done well for the most part, and healthcare is well represented.
Even the financial industry is doing better.

That doesn't mean that all businesses understand how to apply it, and it doesn't mean that civil service knows how to either, at least not at the city or county level.
I'm still going to bring the Supreme Court arguments in for New Haven but you win on the university points.

You're still wrong about Affirmative Action being reverse racism.
Failure to understand, implement and apply AA is the responsibility of those who are tasked with doing so.
The idea is to present equal opportunities that were not historically available.

Thank you for your honesty on University admissions.

The thing about why the researchers choose Ivy League University admissions to study the impact of "Affirmative Action" and the various policies, and indeed the philosophies of diversity,


was not because they are worse than the rest of our society,


but because their decisions are so well documented that their size of the impact of the anti-white (and anti-asian) discrimination was able to be documented and qualified.


The same factors that drive that discrimination, are present though out our society, including the hiring you mention.


But with less documentation and thus more plausible deniability.


The crux of the issue is that people are expected to discriminate in favor of blacks, (and browns) while not discriminating against whites (or asians).


This is, of course, when dealing with finite resources, impossible.

The Law is a fucking disaster.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This is, of course, when dealing with finite resources, impossible.

The Law is a fucking disaster.

First, I do not believe that our resources in education are finite, or not nearly as finite as we are led to believe.
We're constantly told that there is a finite amount of pie to be shared when it comes to resources which benefit the whole of the American people, or where heavy lifting, like education a future generation, is concerned, where helping to ensure some small morsel of stability and security in the future health of a generation is concerned, etc.
Yet when it comes to something like the military budget, not only do they get anything they wish, they're even offered stuff they flat out say they do not want or need, but it is given to them anyway, to the tune of tens of billions more. Their cup runneth over.
More examples abound, too numerous to list for the sake of brevity. The point is, it's priorities.
We can ensure our safety but without stability and security of a well planned future for a generation, we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.
The point is, once upon a time when our priorities were shifted ever so slightly in favor of the middle class and working class, a generation or two ago, we enjoyed much more overall economic security than today.
Education and health care are costly. A generation of unhealthy and ignorant, barely able to make ends meet is potentially deadly as well as much more costly.

Second, the law, like so many laws, is flawed, perhaps even deeply so in some areas.
The solution is rethink and fix, not toss it out entirely.

Conservatives need liberals, liberals need conservatives, country over party, rational compromise, without this we can't achieve anything.

 

[Correll]

This is, of course, when dealing with finite resources, impossible.

The Law is a fucking disaster.

First, I do not believe that our resources in education are finite, or not nearly as finite as we are led to believe....

The more elite schools have a fixed number of slots. Those are a finite resource and it is there that you can see the level of discrimination in our society clearly.

That's the point.

And it is a fucking lot.


What is wrong with not discriminating based on race?

...
The point is, once upon a time when our priorities were shifted ever so slightly in favor of the middle class and working class, a generation or two ago, we enjoyed much more overall economic security than today.
Education and health care are costly. A generation of unhealthy and ignorant, barely able to make ends meet is potentially deadly as well as much more costly.

We spend plenty of education and healthcare. The problems are our trade and immigration policies.

HOw many people do you know that are over qualified for the jobs they are doing, because the economy did not produces enough good jobs to go around?

Second, the law, like so many laws, is flawed, perhaps even deeply so in some areas.
The solution is rethink and fix, not toss it out entirely.

The law, and the overall movement is leading to massive and widespread racist discrimination, and thus tearing this nation apart.

Why not toss it out entirely?

Conservatives need liberals, liberals need conservatives, country over party, rational compromise, without this we can't achieve anything.

We cannot achieve anything.

LIberals are fixated on reaching their very near goal of permanently marginalizing Middle America, though demographic change, and effectively ending the Two Party System so that they can rule without accountability forever.


They have no reason or desire for compromise.

 

[dannyboys]

Al Who?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This is, of course, when dealing with finite resources, impossible.

The Law is a fucking disaster.

First, I do not believe that our resources in education are finite, or not nearly as finite as we are led to believe....

The more elite schools have a fixed number of slots. Those are a finite resource and it is there that you can see the level of discrimination in our society clearly.

That's the point.

And it is a fucking lot.


What is wrong with not discriminating based on race?

...
The point is, once upon a time when our priorities were shifted ever so slightly in favor of the middle class and working class, a generation or two ago, we enjoyed much more overall economic security than today.
Education and health care are costly. A generation of unhealthy and ignorant, barely able to make ends meet is potentially deadly as well as much more costly.

We spend plenty of education and healthcare. The problems are our trade and immigration policies.

HOw many people do you know that are over qualified for the jobs they are doing, because the economy did not produces enough good jobs to go around?

Second, the law, like so many laws, is flawed, perhaps even deeply so in some areas.
The solution is rethink and fix, not toss it out entirely.

The law, and the overall movement is leading to massive and widespread racist discrimination, and thus tearing this nation apart.

Why not toss it out entirely?

Conservatives need liberals, liberals need conservatives, country over party, rational compromise, without this we can't achieve anything.

We cannot achieve anything.

LIberals are fixated on reaching their very near goal of permanently marginalizing Middle America, though demographic change, and effectively ending the Two Party System so that they can rule without accountability forever.


They have no reason or desire for compromise.

I'm afraid we don't have much of anything to talk about anymore at this point, because you're more interested in clinging to your broad sweeping generalizations and hypocrisy than you are in finding rational compromise and common ground. You harp about racism, but your attitude toward anyone who doesn't share your ideological values is a form of political bigotry in itself.

I'm not interested in the right to eat at your "lunch counter", but it's because your "cooking" is so substandard that you'd fuck up cold oatmeal.

I tried, I even admitted when you have solid points, and was prepared to look at your side as well as mine,
and yet you return to the altar of Rush Limbaugh the moment it becomes even slightly inconvenient for your narrow minded prejudices.

"...and effectively ending the Two Party System so that they can rule without accountability forever."

This, ^^^ boys and girls, is called "PROJECTION and HYPOCRISY"...see also:
Gerrymandering, charges of election fraud against GOP hacks, Dems accused of treason for not clapping, Citizens United, Richard Mourdock's comments on 'bipartisanship', and much more.
You don't know the first thing about liberals, no matter how much you whine and think you do.
Go fuck yourself, I'm putting you on ignore.

 

[Correll]

This is, of course, when dealing with finite resources, impossible.

The Law is a fucking disaster.

First, I do not believe that our resources in education are finite, or not nearly as finite as we are led to believe....

The more elite schools have a fixed number of slots. Those are a finite resource and it is there that you can see the level of discrimination in our society clearly.

That's the point.

And it is a fucking lot.


What is wrong with not discriminating based on race?

...
The point is, once upon a time when our priorities were shifted ever so slightly in favor of the middle class and working class, a generation or two ago, we enjoyed much more overall economic security than today.
Education and health care are costly. A generation of unhealthy and ignorant, barely able to make ends meet is potentially deadly as well as much more costly.

We spend plenty of education and healthcare. The problems are our trade and immigration policies.

HOw many people do you know that are over qualified for the jobs they are doing, because the economy did not produces enough good jobs to go around?

Second, the law, like so many laws, is flawed, perhaps even deeply so in some areas.
The solution is rethink and fix, not toss it out entirely.

The law, and the overall movement is leading to massive and widespread racist discrimination, and thus tearing this nation apart.

Why not toss it out entirely?

Conservatives need liberals, liberals need conservatives, country over party, rational compromise, without this we can't achieve anything.

We cannot achieve anything.

LIberals are fixated on reaching their very near goal of permanently marginalizing Middle America, though demographic change, and effectively ending the Two Party System so that they can rule without accountability forever.


They have no reason or desire for compromise.

I'm afraid we don't have much of anything to talk about anymore at this point, because you're more interested in clinging to your broad sweeping generalizations and hypocrisy than you are in finding rational compromise and common ground. You harp about racism, but your attitude toward anyone who doesn't share your ideological values is a form of political bigotry in itself.

I'm not interested in the right to eat at your "lunch counter", but it's because your "cooking" is so substandard that you'd fuck up cold oatmeal.

I tried, I even admitted when you have solid points, and was prepared to look at your side as well as mine,
and yet you return to the altar of Rush Limbaugh the moment it becomes even slightly inconvenient for your narrow minded prejudices.

"...and effectively ending the Two Party System so that they can rule without accountability forever."

This, ^^^ boys and girls, is called "PROJECTION and HYPOCRISY"...see also:
Gerrymandering, charges of election fraud against GOP hacks, Dems accused of treason for not clapping, Citizens United, Richard Mourdock's comments on 'bipartisanship', and much more.
You don't know the first thing about liberals, no matter how much you whine and think you do.
Go fuck yourself, I'm putting you on ignore.

I'm willing to talk about, or to, the few liberals that somehow distinguish themselves from the general "Liberals", but not at the cost of ignoring the actions of the general group of liberals.

Referring to groups of people as groups, is part of the process of Reason.


That you want that as the cost of civil discussion is not acceptable.