Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[USAF 2023]

Also, with respect to "land loss" -- please no one post that tired old land loss canard map. The reality is that NEITHER Israel nor Palestine has held sovereignty over the entire territory so starting with that is just silly. Second, until the dispute is solved -- no one has lost any land, we simply do not know how much will eventually fall to Israel and how much will fall to Palestine.

(this wasn't directed at you, Coyote)

Good point. Until there is an agreement, Israel has won nothing.

Your idea of an “ agreement “ is the destruction of Israel and being deprived of their religious sites and that will never happen. Israel exists whereas “ Palestine” does not

 

[Shusha]

I thought the article interesting, though the paragraph at the end tainted it.

No it did not. It merely found the appropriate expressions for the situation and for the ways in which this (ultra-) right government and its shills defend, or distract from, the sordid state of affairs.

Jews have the right of "return", even if they didn't set foot anywhere near what is now Israel, and neither did 50 generations of their forebears. Arabs do not have that right, not even those still carrying around the keys to their house, which the Jews blew up or bulldozed 70 years ago. Everyone with the most superficial knowledge about Israel knows this, and none posting on this thread belongs into that category.

In that light:

"There are absolutely no 'rights' in Israel arising from being Jewish as opposed to being Arab."​

Followed by:

"Another useful idiot."​

Quite.

As much as I admire your posting style - I am not sure treating hasbara peddlers as serious interlocutors isn't a disservice to debate.

To be clear, I advocate for the right of return for both peoples.

 

[Mindful]

Arab ROR?

But they are there already. In lands they invaded and occupied.

 

[Mindful]

What is Hasbera? A word used by ignorant anti Semites, who don't really know what it means?

 

[Shusha]

I thought the article interesting, though the paragraph at the end tainted it.

No it did not. It merely found the appropriate expressions for the situation and for the ways in which this (ultra-) right government and its shills defend, or distract from, the sordid state of affairs.

Jews have the right of "return", even if they didn't set foot anywhere near what is now Israel, and neither did 50 generations of their forebears. Arabs do not have that right, not even those still carrying around the keys to their house, which the Jews blew up or bulldozed 70 years ago. Everyone with the most superficial knowledge about Israel knows this, and none posting on this thread belongs into that category.

In that light:

"There are absolutely no 'rights' in Israel arising from being Jewish as opposed to being Arab."​

Followed by:

"Another useful idiot."​

Quite.

As much as I admire your posting style - I am not sure treating hasbara peddlers as serious interlocutors isn't a disservice to debate.

Also mind my actual words. There are no rights IN Israel which advantage Jews over Arabs. All are equal in law.

 

[admonit]

I thought the article interesting, though the paragraph at the end tainted it.

No it did not. It merely found the appropriate expressions for the situation and for the ways in which this (ultra-) right government and its shills defend, or distract from, the sordid state of affairs.

Jews have the right of "return", even if they didn't set foot anywhere near what is now Israel, and neither did 50 generations of their forebears. Arabs do not have that right, not even those still carrying around the keys to their house, which the Jews blew up or bulldozed 70 years ago. Everyone with the most superficial knowledge about Israel knows this, and none posting on this thread belongs into that category.

In that light:

"There are absolutely no 'rights' in Israel arising from being Jewish as opposed to being Arab."​

Followed by:

"Another useful idiot."​

Quite.

As much as I admire your posting style - I am not sure treating hasbara peddlers as serious interlocutors isn't a disservice to debate.

Also mind my actual words. There are no rights IN Israel which advantage Jews over Arabs. All are equal in law.

Actually there is inequality. Arabs don't have to serve 3 years in the army and risk their lives fighting for their country.

 

[Mindful]

I thought the article interesting, though the paragraph at the end tainted it.

No it did not. It merely found the appropriate expressions for the situation and for the ways in which this (ultra-) right government and its shills defend, or distract from, the sordid state of affairs.

Jews have the right of "return", even if they didn't set foot anywhere near what is now Israel, and neither did 50 generations of their forebears. Arabs do not have that right, not even those still carrying around the keys to their house, which the Jews blew up or bulldozed 70 years ago. Everyone with the most superficial knowledge about Israel knows this, and none posting on this thread belongs into that category.

In that light:

"There are absolutely no 'rights' in Israel arising from being Jewish as opposed to being Arab."​

Followed by:

"Another useful idiot."​

Quite.

As much as I admire your posting style - I am not sure treating hasbara peddlers as serious interlocutors isn't a disservice to debate.

Also mind my actual words. There are no rights IN Israel which advantage Jews over Arabs. All are equal in law.

Actually there is inequality. Arabs don't have to serve 3 years in the army and risk their lives fighting for their country.

Whether they have to or not, growing numbers are joining the IDF:

 

[Sixties Fan]

The examples given by Barenboim where the Basic Law is supposedly racist are all in the declaration of independence that he praises.

Of course, Israel's other laws enshrine equality of all citizens. None of them are rescinded as a result of the Basic Law.
Barenboim is lying. Ken Roth is lying. The entire world cannot be bothered to actually read the texts before jumping on the bandwagon of calling the Jewish State racist.

I replied to Roth asking, "Ken, please name one specific thing the Basic Law denies Arab citizens of Israel that is allows Jewish citizens of Israel. Just one. Because I have yet to see anything. Please, enlighten us."

Of course he didn't answer. Because he can't. And neither can anyone else.

(full article online)

HRW's Ken Roth says new Basic Law makes Arabs "second class citizens." Can't say how, though. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

Opinion | Everything You’ve Heard About Israel’s Nation State Bill Is Wrong

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What is Hasbera??

Considering the level of intellect of those using the term, I just figured they were referring to their favorite toy manufacturer but couldn't spell it correctly.

 

[Mindful]

The examples given by Barenboim where the Basic Law is supposedly racist are all in the declaration of independence that he praises.

Of course, Israel's other laws enshrine equality of all citizens. None of them are rescinded as a result of the Basic Law.
Barenboim is lying. Ken Roth is lying. The entire world cannot be bothered to actually read the texts before jumping on the bandwagon of calling the Jewish State racist.

I replied to Roth asking, "Ken, please name one specific thing the Basic Law denies Arab citizens of Israel that is allows Jewish citizens of Israel. Just one. Because I have yet to see anything. Please, enlighten us."

Of course he didn't answer. Because he can't. And neither can anyone else.

(full article online)

HRW's Ken Roth says new Basic Law makes Arabs "second class citizens." Can't say how, though. ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

I've been to Israel enough times to see for myself. Arabs are allowed on the same buses as Jews, would you believe!!

As for Barenboim's self serving celebrity idealism. His Divan Orchestra playing at the Proms in London is quite nice.

Jews have tried that leaning over the aisle appeasement posturing, too many times. They never learn. Too many times have I read about it in the Torah.

Take Corbyn's Labour Party in the UK. That's another story; with a common link.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people
SUB:REF: The reality is that NEITHER Israel nor Palestine has held sovereignty over the entire territory
※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

I agree with our friend "Shusha" on the matter of "sovereignty over the entire territory."

Also, with respect to "land loss" -- please no one post that tired old land loss canard map. The reality is that NEITHER Israel nor Palestine has held sovereignty over the entire territory so starting with that is just silly. Second, until the dispute is solved -- no one has lost any land, we simply do not know how much will eventually fall to Israel and how much will fall to Palestine.

(this wasn't directed at you, Coyote)

Good point. Until there is an agreement, Israel has won nothing.

(COMMENT)

BUT, make no mistake... While there is always the possibility that some future negotiation may alter the current status quo, Israel does exercise sovereignty over selected territory that they recognized as theirs and maintain the full right and power of a governing body over itself, to the exclusion of ALL other external powers. However, any of the factions, representing some aspect of authority over what either the Ramallah or Gaza Governments, would be hard-pressed to outline any segment of the territory they individually purport to control (either now or in the past). No one single faction of Arab Palestinian Government has exercised sovereignty over the entirety of all they territory they currently claim.

(SIDEBAR)

The term "win" is really a word without meaning in the perspective of the conflict as seen from 1948 to present. The greatest accomplishments (really worthy of Nobel attention) were the 1949 Armistice Agreements and the two Peace Treaties (1979 and 1994 respectively). History, written a century from now, will record that the leaders of the great nations of the world were not up to the task of creating the peace.

(EPILOG)

Of the Arab League nations that participated in the 1948 conflict, they are today:

• 
  Egypt: Egyptian Movement for Change (2003 → AKA: Kefaya) attempted to secure a return to democracy and promote an atmosphere of greater civil liberties. It is now a relatively quite county. 1979 Peace Treaty with Israeli. Ranks 111th on the Human Development Index.
• 
  Jordan: 1994 Peace Treaty with Israel. Ranks 86th on the Human Development Index.
• 
  Iraq: The country is fragmented. It remains confused as to what form it should take. The population is still in fear of Jihadist activities, Hostile Insurgents, and Asymmetric Fighters. Ranks 111 on the Human Development Index.
• 
  Syria: Now in the 8th year of a Civil War with the added complication of incursions from the Islamic State. Broken up into six areas of influence. Ranks 149th on the Human Development Index.
• 
  Lebanon: Just emerging from a near 16 year Civil War, While considered sovereignty, nearly the entire al-Bekka Valley is controlled by Hezbollah. Ranks 76th on the Human Development Index.
  
• 
  Saudi Arabia: A fairly stable monarchy ruled by the hereditary males heirs of the first king. Ranks 39th on the Human Development Index.
• 
  Yemen: Fragmented Failed State.

Whereas:

Israel: Is a very stable Republic. Ranks 19th on the Human Development Index; above all other Middle Eastern, Persian Gulf Coast State, North African and all European Mediterranean States.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Dogmaphobe]

RE

• 
  Lebanon: Just emerging from a near 16 year Civil War, While considered sovereignty, nearly the entire al-Bekka Valley is controlled by Hezbollah. Ranks 76th on the Human Development Index. .

Most Respectfully,
R

…...which represents a drastic change from 50 years ago, when it was a majority Christian state and Beirut was called the Paris of the Middle East.

Lebanon is THE cautionary tale that Europeans should learn from, yet they refuse.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people
SUB:REF: Hasbara: What is it?
※→ Dogmaphobe, Mindful, et al,

Actually, I have been accused of being Hasbara a couupleof times; as if it were a derogatory accusation.

What is Hasbera??

Considering the level of intellect of those using the term, I just figured they were referring to their favorite toy manufacturer but couldn't spell it correctly.

(COMMENT)

I do not think of myself as "Hasbara;" yet I do find myself explaining and defending the actions of Israel. And it is that "explaining and defending" is were it step into the grey area. What I say, should not be construed as speaking on behalf of the Israelis. Instead, I like to think of myself as an "Advocate." I cannot speak to domestic Israeli issues, except when it is necessary to untangle them for the Israeli-Arab Palestinian Conflict.

There is a difference between being "Hasbara" (someone that explains the actions/response of Israel) and being an "Advocate" (someone who supports the actions and responses) for Israeli sovereignty.

Believe you me, I've been told more than once: "Goy" --- mind you own business.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Mindful]

RE: Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people
SUB:REF: Hasbara: What is it?
※→ Dogmaphobe, Mindful, et al,

Actually, I have been accused of being Hasbara a couupleof times; as if it were a derogatory accusation.

What is Hasbera??

Considering the level of intellect of those using the term, I just figured they were referring to their favorite toy manufacturer but couldn't spell it correctly.

(COMMENT)

I do not think of myself as "Hasbara;" yet I do find myself explaining and defending the actions of Israel. And it is that "explaining and defending" is were it step into the grey area. What I say, should not be construed as speaking on behalf of the Israelis. Instead, I like to think of myself as an "Advocate." I cannot speak to domestic Israeli issues, except when it is necessary to untangle them for the Israeli-Arab Palestinian Conflict.

There is a difference between being "Hasbara" (someone that explains the actions/response of Israel) and being an "Advocate" (someone who supports the actions and responses) for Israeli sovereignty.

Believe you me, I've been told more than once: "Goy" --- mind you own business.

Most Respectfully,
R

As I said, if it's a corrupted term, it's used by Jew haters, who wouldn't even know what it really means. It's certainly not common parlance as far as I am concerned.

 

[Mindful]

.
Lies, lies, and more damn lies. Including word of the year. There's always one:

^^ What’s more, the bigger the porkies – for those ignorant of Cockney rhyming slang porkies (pork pies) = lies – the greater they are believable.

The year’s apogee of Palestinian ‘post-truth’ must surely be UNESCO bigots enshrining Jerusalem’s holiest of holies as exclusively Muslim, summarily dismissing Judaism’s rights to a city Jews built eons before Muhammad and Christianity’s founding tenet that Christ lived and died there centuries prior to Islam’s prophet hearing the word of Allah.

So, viewed through this ‘post-truth’ lens, it must surely be the case Palestinians really are the ‘true’ descendants of Canaanites, a people conquered and consumed by the ancient Israelites, but whose celebrity survives, much like Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

That adds credence to the PLO’s assertion that, as the only indigenous people, they are merely trying to wrest back land criminally allotted to ‘white, European, colonial-settler’ Jews by the perfidious British in their outrageous Balfour Declaration of 1917.^^

‘Post-truth’: Why Jew-haters will adore 2016's Word of the Year - Blogs - Jerusalem Post

 

[Mindful]

And there's more. Even more after this "more".

^^Therefore pay no heed to the 1920 San Remo Agreement (a shameful carve-up of the Levant that incorporated Balfour), keep shtum about any offers of nationhood the Arabs spurned and, crucially, dismiss the then-honorable UN’s 1947 restoration of a Jewish state in its biblical homeland (post-WW2 guilt).

I could bang on deconstructing Palestinians’ mythology, which is watertight as a sieve by any established historical reckoning, but ‘post-truth’ renders that irrelevant.

As Rod Liddle noted in the Sunday Times, “Truth is only beauty if it’s your truth. When it’s somebody else’s truth it can be very ugly indeed, often best not mentioned.”

It’s a fair bet, then, that the next strand of Ramallah’s chutzpah will declare that America was discovered by a Palestinian, since Christopher Columbus was descended from Jewish converts and, ergo, was really a…well, you know what. Oh, and Hamas want the US back.

So watch this space and for heaven’s sake don’t tell Donald Trump.

What beggars belief is how this mendacious game is played out by the Left-leaning mainstream media (MSM) – New York Times, Guardian, BBC, Reuters and Agence France Presse to mention some of the usual suspects – not merely the internet’s self-anointed ‘citizen journalists’.

To some extent I can understand, though not pardon, the latter, since they are a confusion of pious, purblind, socialist ultras – like British Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn – who won’t comprehend that anti-Zionism means anti-Semitism, and certifiable racist loons who bash Israel as a cipher for Jews.

Uncomfortable as it may be for Trots and neo-Nazis to acknowledge, where Jews and the Jewish state are concerned, they’re closer allies than they imagine.

Because the staple diet of both is conspiracy theories…anything from the hardy annual of Jewish financiers controlling the world – that includes you, George Soros – to diabolical smears, like calling on Israel to investigate faux allegations IDF emergency medical teams abroad harvested kiddies' organs (once a pet hobbyhorse of disgraced British peeress, Jenny Tonge).

The ‘net is awash with such ‘post-truth’ tosh and it’s resonating, not just among dorks, but those who claim to own a brain, notably college undergrads and their educators.^^

 

[Coyote]

I thought the article interesting, though the paragraph at the end tainted it.

No it did not. It merely found the appropriate expressions for the situation and for the ways in which this (ultra-) right government and its shills defend, or distract from, the sordid state of affairs.

Jews have the right of "return", even if they didn't set foot anywhere near what is now Israel, and neither did 50 generations of their forebears. Arabs do not have that right, not even those still carrying around the keys to their house, which the Jews blew up or bulldozed 70 years ago. Everyone with the most superficial knowledge about Israel knows this, and none posting on this thread belongs into that category.

In that light:

"There are absolutely no 'rights' in Israel arising from being Jewish as opposed to being Arab."​

Followed by:

"Another useful idiot."​

Quite.

As much as I admire your posting style - I am not sure treating hasbara peddlers as serious interlocutors isn't a disservice to debate.

Also mind my actual words. There are no rights IN Israel which advantage Jews over Arabs. All are equal in law.

Actually there is inequality. Arabs don't have to serve 3 years in the army and risk their lives fighting for their country.

And the price they pay for not serving is they are locked out of a lot of jobs and promotions that IDF service confers. Jews don’t have to serve either, if they are Hasidic.

 

[Coyote]

I thought the article interesting, though the paragraph at the end tainted it.

No it did not. It merely found the appropriate expressions for the situation and for the ways in which this (ultra-) right government and its shills defend, or distract from, the sordid state of affairs.

Jews have the right of "return", even if they didn't set foot anywhere near what is now Israel, and neither did 50 generations of their forebears. Arabs do not have that right, not even those still carrying around the keys to their house, which the Jews blew up or bulldozed 70 years ago. Everyone with the most superficial knowledge about Israel knows this, and none posting on this thread belongs into that category.

In that light:

"There are absolutely no 'rights' in Israel arising from being Jewish as opposed to being Arab."​

Followed by:

"Another useful idiot."​

Quite.

As much as I admire your posting style - I am not sure treating hasbara peddlers as serious interlocutors isn't a disservice to debate.

Also mind my actual words. There are no rights IN Israel which advantage Jews over Arabs. All are equal in law.

No they are not...not in terms of absentee landowner laws and in areas available to them to build communities.

 

[Coyote]

I thought the article interesting, though the paragraph at the end tainted it.

No it did not. It merely found the appropriate expressions for the situation and for the ways in which this (ultra-) right government and its shills defend, or distract from, the sordid state of affairs.

Jews have the right of "return", even if they didn't set foot anywhere near what is now Israel, and neither did 50 generations of their forebears. Arabs do not have that right, not even those still carrying around the keys to their house, which the Jews blew up or bulldozed 70 years ago. Everyone with the most superficial knowledge about Israel knows this, and none posting on this thread belongs into that category.

In that light:

"There are absolutely no 'rights' in Israel arising from being Jewish as opposed to being Arab."​

Followed by:

"Another useful idiot."​

Quite.

As much as I admire your posting style - I am not sure treating hasbara peddlers as serious interlocutors isn't a disservice to debate.

I have a lot of respect for the postings of Rocco and Shusha...I don’t consider them hasbara peddlers by any means.

The right of return is problematic. Shusha supports it for both sides and has consistently argued this. I don’t believe in any right of return beyond the generation directly affected, for both sides.

The other thing is...a nation can determine for itself who has a right to come, whether right or wrong, every nation does this.