Not Founding Fathers, Founding Punks

[alan1]

Not Founding Fathers, Founding Punks

Independence Day. July 4th 1776 The United States declared independence from England, a written document signed by many people. In today’s world it is commonly believed that a bunch of old white guys signed that document. The truth is, a lot of young guys wrote and signed both the Declaration Of Independence and The United States Constitution. We call them “Founding Fathers”. But many were young or middle aged at the time.
The average age of a signer was 45, hardly old men.

Who they were.

Thomas Jefferson: He was 33 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence and believed to be a principle author of the document. He became the 3rd President of The United States.

John Hancock: He was 39 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence. He came from wealth and used that wealth to help fund the war for independence.

Benjamin Franklin: He was the oldest guy at 70 years of age when he signed The Declaration of Independence. His roots were working class yet he is known for being a leading author, printer, political theorist, politician, postmaster, scientist, musician, inventor, satirist, civic activist, statesman, and diplomat.

George Washington: Our first president was only 44 years old when The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. He served as Commander in Chief of the Continental Army and served as the 1st US President 1789–1797

Samuel Adams: He was another old guy of 54 at the signing of The Declaration of Independence. He was a tax collector opposed to the British efforts of taxing the American colonies.

John Adams: He was 41 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence. He assisted Thomas Jefferson in drafting The Declaration of Independence. Middle aged and the second President of the United States. He was a strong proponent of republicanism.

Thomas Paine: He is believed to be a large part of the inspiration of The Declaration of Independence when he was 37 years old. Pro-revolutionary author of Common Sense.

James Madison: He was only 25 in 1776. He is considered the “Father of the Constitution” and the key champion of The Bill Of Rights. He collaborated with John Jay and Alexander Hamilton to produce The Federalist Papers.

John Jay: He was 31 at the signing of The Declaration of Independence even though he didn’t sign it. He wrote many of the Federalist Papers and was the first Supreme Court Chief Justice.

Alexander Hamilton: A mere 21 years of age during the signing of The Declaration of Independence. (It is believed that) He was the bastard son of a prostitute. He wrote many of the Federalist Papers and helped define the nation’s financial system.

As a side note,
John Adams and Thomas Jefferson both died on July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.

 

[regent]

Not Founding Fathers, Founding Punks

Independence Day. July 4th 1776 The United States declared independence from England, a written document signed by many people. In today’s world it is commonly believed that a bunch of old white guys signed that document. The truth is, a lot of young guys wrote and signed both the Declaration Of Independence and The United States Constitution. We call them “Founding Fathers”. But many were young or middle aged at the time.
The average age of a signer was 45, hardly old men.

Who they were.

Thomas Jefferson: He was 33 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence and believed to be a principle author of the document. He became the 3rd President of The United States.

John Hancock: He was 39 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence. He came from wealth and used that wealth to help fund the war for independence.

Benjamin Franklin: He was the oldest guy at 70 years of age when he signed The Declaration of Independence. His roots were working class yet he is known for being a leading author, printer, political theorist, politician, postmaster, scientist, musician, inventor, satirist, civic activist, statesman, and diplomat.

George Washington: Our first president was only 44 years old when The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. He served as Commander in Chief of the Continental Army and served as the 1st US President 1789–1797

Samuel Adams: He was another old guy of 54 at the signing of The Declaration of Independence. He was a tax collector opposed to the British efforts of taxing the American colonies.

John Adams: He was 41 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence. He assisted Thomas Jefferson in drafting The Declaration of Independence. Middle aged and the second President of the United States. He was a strong proponent of republicanism.

Thomas Paine: He is believed to be a large part of the inspiration of The Declaration of Independence when he was 37 years old. Pro-revolutionary author of Common Sense.

James Madison: He was only 25 in 1776. He is considered the “Father of the Constitution” and the key champion of The Bill Of Rights. He collaborated with John Jay and Alexander Hamilton to produce The Federalist Papers.

John Jay: He was 31 at the signing of The Declaration of Independence even though he didn’t sign it. He wrote many of the Federalist Papers and was the first Supreme Court Chief Justice.

Alexander Hamilton: A mere 21 years of age during the signing of The Declaration of Independence. (It is believed that) He was the bastard son of a prostitute. He wrote many of the Federalist Papers and helped define the nation’s financial system.

As a side note,
John Adams and Thomas Jefferson both died on July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.

Well Franklin brought the age-average up a little. Franklin was one of the committee to write the Declaration but was too old so the two real candidates were Jefferson and Adams. Adams withdrew and Jefferson did the deed. But Jefferson's work was changed and edited by both the committee and by the Continental Congress. An interesting history project is to compare Jefferson's work with the end document and another is why did Jefferson change Locke's property to pursuit of happiness?

 

[whitehall]

That's right, they were men in the prime of their lives and they risked everything including their lives and fortunes to create a government truly of and by the people for the first time in human history. Wonderful men.

 

[Auteur]

That's right, they were men in the prime of their lives and they risked everything including their lives and fortunes to create a government truly of and by the people for the first time in human history. Wonderful men.

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

 

[tjvh]

That's right, they were men in the prime of their lives and they risked everything including their lives and fortunes to create a government truly of and by the people for the first time in human history. Wonderful men.

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

What the Founders did was provide a system which allowed those things that you despise to ultimately be altered and fixed by the will of the people, unfortunately that system has degraded in the last hundred years by people who have a completely different and corrupt idea of what America should be.

 

[gipper]

That's right, they were men in the prime of their lives and they risked everything including their lives and fortunes to create a government truly of and by the people for the first time in human history. Wonderful men.

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

What the Founders did was provide a system which allowed those things that you despise to ultimately be altered and fixed by the will of the people, unfortunately that system has degraded in the last hundred years by people who have a completely different and corrupt idea of what America should be.

That's a mouthful. Our government has gone terribly wrong and is taking us down the road to ruin.

This is good....a nation run by idoits can not long prevail....

• If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for being in the country illegally … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If the only school curriculum allowed to explain how we got here is evolution, but your government stops a $15 million construction project to keep a rare spider from evolving to extinction … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If you have to show identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book, but not to vote for who runs your government … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If your government believes that using steroids or other drugs will ruin your life, but throwing you in prison for years will not … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If your government wants to ban stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines with more than ten rounds, but gives 20 F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If, in the largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not a 24-ounce soda because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If an 80-year-old woman can be strip-searched by the TSA but a woman in a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If a seven year old boy can be thrown out of school for saying his teacher “cute,” but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If children are forcibly removed from parents who discipline them with spankings while children of addicts are left in filth and drug infested “homes”… you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government intrusion, while not working is rewarded with EBT cards, WIC checks, Medicaid, subsidized housing, and free cell phones … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If your government’s plan for getting people back to work is to incentivize NOT working with 99 weeks of Unemployment checks and no requirement to prove they applied but can’t find work … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big screen TV while your neighbor buys iPhones, TVs and new cars, and your government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.
• If your government believes that the way to make a school of unarmed children safe is to pass another law, this time with the illusion that three 10-round magazines in a rifle is safer than a 30-round magazine … you might live in a country founded by geniuses and run by idiots.

 

[editec]

The Floundering Fathers were pretty good guys who did a swell job given what they had to work with.

 

[dblack]

Not a one of them would be electable by today's "standards".

 

[regent]

That's right, they were men in the prime of their lives and they risked everything including their lives and fortunes to create a government truly of and by the people for the first time in human history. Wonderful men.

Too bad the people of that time didn't see it as clearly. The best estimates are that one third of the colonists supported the idea of independence, one third could care less and one third remained loyal to Britain. In any case the Declaration of Independence was primarily for propaganda purposes.

 

[Auteur]

That's right, they were men in the prime of their lives and they risked everything including their lives and fortunes to create a government truly of and by the people for the first time in human history. Wonderful men.

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

What the Founders did was provide a system which allowed those things that you despise to ultimately be altered and fixed by the will of the people, unfortunately that system has degraded in the last hundred years by people who have a completely different and corrupt idea of what America should be.

I wouldn't say I despise anything here, I'm just making the observation that this event was not a first, and not really democratic by today's notions. Democratic systems were pitched from the ancient Greek city states, to the Icelandic Althing, to the British Bill of Rights, among other examples in history, and the US revolution drew on those for ideas. This was democracy that reflected the values of the times though. Those that benefited the most were likely the more affluent, entrepreneurial, business class. Others would not have seen a huge change, and for aboriginals, it was certainly a negative.

 

[regent]

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

What the Founders did was provide a system which allowed those things that you despise to ultimately be altered and fixed by the will of the people, unfortunately that system has degraded in the last hundred years by people who have a completely different and corrupt idea of what America should be.

I wouldn't say I despise anything here, I'm just making the observation that this event was not a first, and not really democratic by today's notions. Democratic systems were pitched from the ancient Greek city states, to the Icelandic Althing, to the British Bill of Rights, among other examples in history, and the US revolution drew on those for ideas. This was democracy that reflected the values of the times though. Those that benefited the most were likely the more affluent, entrepreneurial, business class. Others would not have seen a huge change, and for aboriginals, it was certainly a negative.

The new nation and the constitution the founders created was about as liberal as a nation could get at that time in history. The French will try to go a little further and it will backfire.

 

[peach174]

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

What the Founders did was provide a system which allowed those things that you despise to ultimately be altered and fixed by the will of the people, unfortunately that system has degraded in the last hundred years by people who have a completely different and corrupt idea of what America should be.

I wouldn't say I despise anything here, I'm just making the observation that this event was not a first, and not really democratic by today's notions. Democratic systems were pitched from the ancient Greek city states, to the Icelandic Althing, to the British Bill of Rights, among other examples in history, and the US revolution drew on those for ideas. This was democracy that reflected the values of the times though. Those that benefited the most were likely the more affluent, entrepreneurial, business class. Others would not have seen a huge change, and for aboriginals, it was certainly a negative.

That is exactly why the Founders did not want a Democracy. Democracies had all failed in their historical times. They were well read and educated in past Governments, especially in past Democracies and none wanted a Democracy.
They put in a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy.

 

[tjvh]

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

What the Founders did was provide a system which allowed those things that you despise to ultimately be altered and fixed by the will of the people, unfortunately that system has degraded in the last hundred years by people who have a completely different and corrupt idea of what America should be.

I wouldn't say I despise anything here, I'm just making the observation that this event was not a first, and not really democratic by today's notions. Democratic systems were pitched from the ancient Greek city states, to the Icelandic Althing, to the British Bill of Rights, among other examples in history, and the US revolution drew on those for ideas. This was democracy that reflected the values of the times though. Those that benefited the most were likely the more affluent, entrepreneurial, business class. Others would not have seen a huge change, and for aboriginals, it was certainly a negative.

Well it still doesn't change the fact that the Founders could not fix everything, they only provided a document which allowed things to get fixed over time, and that document has worked just fine until progressives decided they wanted to try to alter the vision the Founders had. BTW... Many of the people who were enslaved around the time the Constitution was written were sold into slavery by blacks themselves... So it's rather disingenuous to blame slavery solely on whites of privilege, when facts dictate otherwise.

 

[hjmick]

Sure, that seems young to us today, but what was the life expectancy back then? Most were born in the 1740s, so what? Fifty-four? Fifty-five? Granted there were a couple of exceptions in the group, Franklin and Stephen Hopkins were old at the time, but most probably didn't expect to live past sixty...

 

[peach174]

Sure, that seems young to us today, but what was the life expectancy back then? Most were born in the 1740s, so what? Fifty-four? Fifty-five? Granted there were a couple of exceptions in the group, Franklin and Stephen Hopkins were old at the time, but most probably didn't expect to live past sixty...

The average age back then was around 67.

Secretary Charles Thomson lived to the age of 94. Johnson died at 92. John Adams lived to the age of 90.
A few, Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Williamson, and Wythe—lived into their eighties.
Either 15 or 16 (depending on Fitzsimons's exact age) died in their seventies.
Twenty or twenty one lived into their sixties.
Eight lived to be in their fifties.
Five lived only into their forties.
Three (Alexander Hamilton, Richard Dobbs Spaight and Button Gwinnett) were killed in duels.

 

[Flopper]

Not Founding Fathers, Founding Punks

Independence Day. July 4th 1776 The United States declared independence from England, a written document signed by many people. In today’s world it is commonly believed that a bunch of old white guys signed that document. The truth is, a lot of young guys wrote and signed both the Declaration Of Independence and The United States Constitution. We call them “Founding Fathers”. But many were young or middle aged at the time.
The average age of a signer was 45, hardly old men.

Who they were.

Thomas Jefferson: He was 33 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence and believed to be a principle author of the document. He became the 3rd President of The United States.

John Hancock: He was 39 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence. He came from wealth and used that wealth to help fund the war for independence.

Benjamin Franklin: He was the oldest guy at 70 years of age when he signed The Declaration of Independence. His roots were working class yet he is known for being a leading author, printer, political theorist, politician, postmaster, scientist, musician, inventor, satirist, civic activist, statesman, and diplomat.

George Washington: Our first president was only 44 years old when The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. He served as Commander in Chief of the Continental Army and served as the 1st US President 1789–1797

Samuel Adams: He was another old guy of 54 at the signing of The Declaration of Independence. He was a tax collector opposed to the British efforts of taxing the American colonies.

John Adams: He was 41 years old when he signed The Declaration of Independence. He assisted Thomas Jefferson in drafting The Declaration of Independence. Middle aged and the second President of the United States. He was a strong proponent of republicanism.

Thomas Paine: He is believed to be a large part of the inspiration of The Declaration of Independence when he was 37 years old. Pro-revolutionary author of Common Sense.

James Madison: He was only 25 in 1776. He is considered the “Father of the Constitution” and the key champion of The Bill Of Rights. He collaborated with John Jay and Alexander Hamilton to produce The Federalist Papers.

John Jay: He was 31 at the signing of The Declaration of Independence even though he didn’t sign it. He wrote many of the Federalist Papers and was the first Supreme Court Chief Justice.

Alexander Hamilton: A mere 21 years of age during the signing of The Declaration of Independence. (It is believed that) He was the bastard son of a prostitute. He wrote many of the Federalist Papers and helped define the nation’s financial system.

As a side note,
John Adams and Thomas Jefferson both died on July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.

In the 1700's they were old. The average life span was only about 35, so 45 was definitely over the hill in 1776. However, I don't see how age enters into their actions.

 

[oldfart]

In the 1700's they were old. The average life span was only about 35, so 45 was definitely over the hill in 1776. However, I don't see how age enters into their actions.

Two quick points:

Child mortality was so high that life expectancy for those who had achieved maturity was about to age 60 and the numbers who lived to 80 or 90 were pretty close to the percentages today.

You could probably add another decade for people of the economic and social class from which these men were drawn. Not very many frontier farmers here, no sailors or fishermen, but a lot of merchants and plantation managers.

 

[alan1]

In the 1700's they were old. The average life span was only about 35, so 45 was definitely over the hill in 1776. However, I don't see how age enters into their actions.

Two quick points:

Child mortality was so high that life expectancy for those who had achieved maturity was about to age 60 and the numbers who lived to 80 or 90 were pretty close to the percentages today.

You could probably add another decade for people of the economic and social class from which these men were drawn. Not very many frontier farmers here, no sailors or fishermen, but a lot of merchants and plantation managers.

Infant mortality does draw the average down significantly.

 

[Moonglow]

If it weren't for those punks, the old fireworks wouldn't be poppin' off.

 

[alan1]

That's right, they were men in the prime of their lives and they risked everything including their lives and fortunes to create a government truly of and by the people for the first time in human history. Wonderful men.

Of and for white land holding males to be exact. Roughly the same situation as prevailed in Britain at the time.

One important thing that was spelled out, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.". I don't want to get into the the whole "creator" thing, but rather, the "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness", and "created equal".
When the founders said, "created equal", they knew that didn't mean everybody was equal in all things. Not everybody has the same intelligence level, or skill-set or work ethic, or a multitude of other things. That is why they said pursuit of happiness......Not equality of outcome. There was no guarantee that simply being a US citizen resulted in one being successful and happy, just the guarantee that one had the opportunity to do so based upon his own actions. In my opinion, we seem to have drifted far from that sort of belief, that it is up to the individual to pursue. And sometimes that means failure. It is not incumbent upon me, you or anybody else to provide happiness to another that either fails to seek it on their own, or fails to achieve it when they do seek it.