Not ALL Repubs are EPA-hating, denier cultists

[rdean]

Not ALL Repubs are EPA-hating, denier cultists

I've met the ones who aren't. Both of them.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Dot com seems to be following a subset pattern of alinskys. It is the same strategy as tea partiers love putin(which is playing in other threads) and conservatives want to abolish every dept to protect the one per cent, and the tea partiers are drooling at the mouth to go to war. It is a pattern of say it enough times and it will be fact and it does seem to work when the media is AWOL on the facts.

The point with the EPA is not abolishing it, I have not heard anyone take that stand, but with using the EPA as de facto police and even as a unit to create laws which it was never granted the power for. The EPA is being used to lean on people who are anti Obama, not to generically monitor our environment. Dot com knows this but would never acknowledge it. The myths will continue.

 

[Crick]

The EPA, like any agency of the Executive Branch, is obligated to write regulations to support and enforce the laws enacted by the Executive and Legislative branches. I think an objective examination is not that the EPA has attempted to regulate areas or activities for which it was not empowered, but that Congress has written, and the president has signed, laws that perhaps give more power to the EPA than they had originally intended. I recall at one point in my youth, the government passed a law that empowered and commanded the FDA to ban any food substance found to be carcinogenic AT ANY DOSE. That was eventually straightened out. Just recall that we don't seem to elect our representatives based on their science proficiency. Shame that.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Ok crick I get that point. But when you have a democratic congress passing laws with a democratic president the effect is exactly what I am talking about. Look at the facts. The coal ban is all EPA. The president wants cap and trade, can't get it legally so he will do it illegally through the EPA. Same with control of water. They are trying to make a mud puddle the domain of,the EPA. Total govt control of everything. This is what tea party people and conservatives are fighting against, Obama and govt overreach, and the Supreme Court has unanimously knocked the administration back for,this something like nine times already. Obamas mission has never been to help anyone but rather to concentrate power and even leading democratic thinkers have expressed concern about this.

 

[Crick]

Obama has presided along with the most obstructive, do-nothing congress in over a century. That he should be pressed by this fact to take action - legal, Constitutional action - to advance his agenda is only to be expected. And, as I know you know, he has executed significantly LESS executive decrees than his immediate Republican predecessors.

The EPA has taken no action that it could not have reasonably believed to be an appropriate execution of its duties under laws the congress has passed. And that the President and a slim majority in the Senate (but not the House) should exist is the product solely of the American electorate. Given the slim margin in the Senate and firm Republican control of the House, you can hardly blame the current behavior of the EPA on the DNC. And that would be the EPA as created and chartered by republican president Richard Nixon.

 

[Dot Com]

Obama has presided along with the most obstructive, do-nothing congress in over a century. That he should be pressed by this fact to take action - legal, Constitutional action - to advance his agenda is only to be expected. And, as I know you know, he has executed significantly LESS executive decrees than his immediate Republican predecessors.

The EPA has taken no action that it could not have reasonably believed to be an appropriate execution of its duties under laws the congress has passed. And that the President and a slim majority in the Senate (but not the House) should exist is the product solely of the American electorate. Given the slim margin in the Senate and firm Republican control of the House, you can hardly blame the current behavior of the EPA on the DNC. And that would be the EPA as created and chartered by republican president Richard Nixon.

Excellent point/s.

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk

 

[Shrimpbox]

Supreme Court Unanimously Finds President Obama Violated Constitution In Use Of Recess Appointments JONATHAN TURLEY

25 Violations of Law By President Obama and His Administration Committee for Justice
Will EPA s power plant regulations be stopped in the courts Grist

Crick I don't have the time or really the expertise to research this as much as I should but here are some responses.

Number one the executive cannot make laws.

You call the congress the most do nothing congress in a century. Two points here, one, the do nothing congress is a function of an inept, incompetent president who even by conventional wisdom cannot lead or govern. He abdicates his responsibility to get leaders of congress together and hammer out compromises that have a possibility of passing both houses. His my way or the highway obstinate posture is the main impediment to getting things done, but he clings to a strategy of creating problems that he then says only he wants to fix. Secondly from the other side gridlock ,whether you or I like it, is a strategy. When you have a man who wants to fundamentally change America maybe the only way you can slow him down is by tying his hands. America today would be unrecignizable to the greatest generation if Obama had had control of both houses of congress for six years.

You also seem to hint that since congress won't do his bidding, he is justified in finding ways to circumvent lawmakers and bending to the breaking point his constitutional powers. I would hope that is not your stance.

You are right about less executive actions than bush, but that misses the point, it is the scope and breadth of his orders that is important and not the quantity. Let's not forget that his twenty something unilateral changes to obamacare are about to go before scotus this term AND have nothing to do with an obstructionist congress but were all political maneuvers to save his bacon.

You claim the EPA has done nothing that is not in its purview. Sounds like,it will take years for the courts to sort this out. But check out the bio of the head of the EPA, or read about the strong arm tactics the EPA uses to bend people to its will.

Yes you are right I can't blame the EPA problems on the dnc. I blame them on Obama which the dnc backs 100 per cent.

I love the reference to Nixon. If conservatives were just smart enough they could let liberals provide all their talking points for,them. I bet not one in a hundred people could answer the question what president created the EPA. Isn't it great,that the very people who want dirty air and water also created the EPA. Come to think of it obamacare was based on another program created by a republican. Republicans used to be the creators of solutions. The democrats are just the corruptors of solutions.

P. S. Have you heard that obamas prisoner swap for the deserter in Afghanistan has just been declared illegal. Have you discerned a pattern here yet?

A shout out to the fox report that is on on Sunday nights at seven eastern. If you think I am out there listen to the graybeards Pat Caddell, Doug Schoen( two democratic operatives that I have tremendous respect for) and John Leboutelier a former republican congressman talk about the state of the union. These men believe in America and are as harsh on Obama as I am. They provide an unvarnished and refreshingly objective analysis of current events.

 

[Crick]

I suggest this conversation move itself to politics or current events.

You need to make up your mind whether the Congress is doing nothing because Obama is an inept leader or because the RNC has chosen obstructionism as their core strategy.

I did not hint that Obama was justified in circumventing lawmakers or bending his Constitutional powers. I said he was justified in using legal executive orders in the fulfillment of his obligation to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed". Executive orders take the force of law within the functions of the Executive Branch based on Constitutionally granted powers of the presidency and authority delegated to the Executive by legislative decree. They are subject to Judicial Review and can be struck down if found Constitutionally or statutorially lacking.

In my view, the EPA has not overreached at all. I would have them go further. I think our children and their children will find the inaction wrt global warming of the last three or four administrations egregiously thoughtless and incomprehensibly irresponsible. I couldn't care less that a republican president created the department. Nixon was not the unalloyed boy-toy to US industry that George Bush proved himself to be, but with the EPA he was trying to mollify a popular environmental movement among people who almost universally despised him for the war in Vietnam.

Obama has not been the perfect president. I'm 60 years old and I've yet to see one of those. But as far as my political wants and desires and predilections, he's a hell of a sight better president than George Bush or Mitt Romney could ever dream of being. That we've elected a black president pleases me to no end. I will be equally pleased when we've elected a woman. It will mean we've made some progress, despite the folks in this country like some of the posters here who still think the melanin content in the man's skin actually means something.

This is the environment forum. This discussion has nothing to do with the environment. It needs to end or move.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Not ALL Repubs are EPA-hating, denier cultists

I've met the ones who aren't. Both of them.

You haven't met me.

 

[Dot Com]

There re a few here who aren't EPA/OSHA/SEC/Dept of LABOR- hating cultists BUT, they are few & far between.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

There re a few here who aren't EPA/OSHA/SEC/Dept of LABOR- hating cultists BUT, they are few & far between.

I'm a retired EPA employee. Spent 22 years working for the agency, and 38 overall for the Federal Government. I AM a Republican, however, and I think the Obama Administration has absolutely ruined EPA in many ways.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Dot com seems to be following a subset pattern of alinskys. It is the same strategy as tea partiers love putin(which is playing in other threads) and conservatives want to abolish every dept to protect the one per cent, and the tea partiers are drooling at the mouth to go to war. It is a pattern of say it enough times and it will be fact and it does seem to work when the media is AWOL on the facts.

The point with the EPA is not abolishing it, I have not heard anyone take that stand, but with using the EPA as de facto police and even as a unit to create laws which it was never granted the power for. The EPA is being used to lean on people who are anti Obama, not to generically monitor our environment. Dot com knows this but would never acknowledge it. The myths will continue.

There is a lot of truth to what you are saying about how Obama has changed EPA.

EPA does have, established by law in the early 90s, a criminal investigative unit. And I support their mission.

 

[Dot Com]

There re a few here who aren't EPA/OSHA/SEC/Dept of LABOR- hating cultists BUT, they are few & far between.

I'm a retired EPA employee. Spent 22 years working for the agency, and 38 overall for the Federal Government. I AM a Republican, however, and I think the Obama Administration has absolutely ruined EPA in many ways.

"absolutely ruined"? do you have specific examples that "ruined" it?

BTW- The previous occupant of the WH merely let it rot on the vine as it were.

 

[tinydancer]

Obama has presided along with the most obstructive, do-nothing congress in over a century. That he should be pressed by this fact to take action - legal, Constitutional action - to advance his agenda is only to be expected. And, as I know you know, he has executed significantly LESS executive decrees than his immediate Republican predecessors.

The EPA has taken no action that it could not have reasonably believed to be an appropriate execution of its duties under laws the congress has passed. And that the President and a slim majority in the Senate (but not the House) should exist is the product solely of the American electorate. Given the slim margin in the Senate and firm Republican control of the House, you can hardly blame the current behavior of the EPA on the DNC. And that would be the EPA as created and chartered by republican president Richard Nixon.

Bullshit that Congress has been a do nothing Congress. The problem is the Democrat controlled Senate. The Senate is sitting on the bills.

From Politifact: 733 measures passed the house weeded down to 342.

Have 352 bills passed the House but await action in the Senate?

Basically, yes. We used the THOMAS congressional database to pluck out the 733 measures that have passed the House so far this year. We then weeded out a few categories of bills -- ones that, for procedural reasons, were never intended to go to the Senate (such as election of the Speaker, assignment of lawmakers to committees, and procedural motions) or ones that were subsequently taken up by the Senate (either being passed or rejected).

What remained were 342 individual bills. That’s 10 fewer than what Jenkins claimed, but we have no quarrel with her number, since the difference likely stems from additional bills being passed in the couple of days between when she spoke and when we looked through the database.

Rep. Lynn Jenkins blames Harry Reid for do-nothing Senate PolitiFact

What part of the Supreme Court found that the EPA has been over reaching did you miss? And your statement that Richard Nixon founded the EPA on his watch means what exactly? I certainly hope you don't mean that anything and everything the EPA has done since its inception can be blamed on Nixon. Because that would be ridiculous.

U.S. Supreme Court Rules Against EPA Overreach, Burdensome Greenhouse Gas Regulations
Contact: Joy Yearout 517-373-8060

June 23, 2014

LANSING - Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette today praised a 5-4 decision by the U.S. Supreme Court striking down burdensome Environment Protection Agency (EPA) regulations that would have imposed new permitting requirements on large manufacturing facilities and power plants.

The regulation would have ultimately required a multitude of smaller facilities, including hospitals, churches, schools, apartment buildings and retailers, to comply with complicated greenhouse gas emission permitting requirements. The 5-4 ruling authored by Justice Antonin Scalia declared that the regulation exceeded the authority granted to the EPA by Congress and violated the federal Clean Air Act.

AG - U.S. Supreme Court Rules Against EPA Overreach Burdensome Greenhouse Gas Regulations

And regarding Obama's over reach ? The Supreme Court has been royally bitch slapping the ever loving shit out of the President for more than a few years now.

You need to get up to speed there sparky.

Supreme Court Rules Unanimously Against Obama for 12th and 13th Time Since 2012

Did you know the Obama administration’s position has been defeated in at least 13 – thirteen — cases before the Supreme Court since January 2012 that were unanimous decisions?

It continued its abysmal record before the Supreme Court today with the announcement of two unanimous opinions against arguments the administration had supported.

First, the Court rejected the administration’s power grab on recess appointments by making clear it could not decide when the Senate was in recess.

Then it unanimously tossed out a law establishing abortion-clinic “buffer zones” against pro-life protests that the Obama administration argued on behalf of before the Court (though the case was led by Massachusetts attorney general Martha Coakley).

Supreme Court Rules Unanimously Against Obama for 12th and 13th Time Since 2012 National Review Online

 

[Dot Com]

The House is sending over bills that THEY KNOW will be DOA @tinydancer

 

[Shrimpbox]

The only reason they are doa is because Harry Reid won't let them come to the floor. There has never been a more obstructionist legislator in congress than Harry Reid over last eight years. And he is just doing what the president wants.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

There re a few here who aren't EPA/OSHA/SEC/Dept of LABOR- hating cultists BUT, they are few & far between.

I'm a retired EPA employee. Spent 22 years working for the agency, and 38 overall for the Federal Government. I AM a Republican, however, and I think the Obama Administration has absolutely ruined EPA in many ways.

"absolutely ruined"? do you have specific examples that "ruined" it?

BTW- The previous occupant of the WH merely let it rot on the vine as it were.

Overtly Political management. Attempts to co-opt career employees. Mismanagement.

Issuing regulations outside statutory authority.

Incompetent political appointees.

Add this to the general mismanagement in the Federal government in this Administration and you have disaster.

 

[Dot Com]

There re a few here who aren't EPA/OSHA/SEC/Dept of LABOR- hating cultists BUT, they are few & far between.

I'm a retired EPA employee. Spent 22 years working for the agency, and 38 overall for the Federal Government. I AM a Republican, however, and I think the Obama Administration has absolutely ruined EPA in many ways.

"absolutely ruined"? do you have specific examples that "ruined" it?

BTW- The previous occupant of the WH merely let it rot on the vine as it were.

Overtly Political management. Attempts to co-opt career employees. Mismanagement.

Issuing regulations outside statutory authority.

Incompetent political appointees.

Add this to the general mismanagement in the Federal government in this Administration and you have disaster.

Am I supposed to just take your word for it? Besides, as I said, Republicans just put an "out to lunch" sign on the door at EPA, OSHA, Dept of Labor, etc...

 

[AmericanGirl05]

There re a few here who aren't EPA/OSHA/SEC/Dept of LABOR- hating cultists BUT, they are few & far between.

I'm a retired EPA employee. Spent 22 years working for the agency, and 38 overall for the Federal Government. I AM a Republican, however, and I think the Obama Administration has absolutely ruined EPA in many ways.

"absolutely ruined"? do you have specific examples that "ruined" it?

BTW- The previous occupant of the WH merely let it rot on the vine as it were.

Overtly Political management. Attempts to co-opt career employees. Mismanagement.

Issuing regulations outside statutory authority.

Incompetent political appointees.

Add this to the general mismanagement in the Federal government in this Administration and you have disaster.

Am I supposed to just take your word for it? Besides, as I said, Republicans just put an "out to lunch" sign on the door at EPA, OSHA, Dept of Labor, etc...

You should take my word for it. I lived it; it was my job. I retired because of the Obama incompetence and policies.

As it is, your knowledge is nothing but Democratic talking points.

 

[Dot Com]

Whatever you say. Thats anecdotal evidence at best. Welcome to the forum.

Now, back to topic.