Nobody needs an AK47 with a 30 round magazine

[Mathbud1]

Oh dear. Please read your own source. I have even bolded the relevent parts for your edification. Dear oh dear oh dear. Thanks for proving my point.

"According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, there was a slight drop in the percent of murders committed with a firearm between 2001 and 2007 (16.0% and 13.4%, respectively). However, the percentage was highest in 2006 (16.3%) and remains higher than the low of 8.9% in 2005. There is no difference in the use of a firearm in robbery: Guns were used in 6.4% of all robberies in both 2001 and 2007.

In 2002–five years after enacting its gun ban–the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime: “The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued its declining trend since 1969.”

So much for skyrocketing crime rate....

edit: Also note that for the above stats he quotes the ABS, but for the "49 percent increase in robberies" etc he has not given a source. Give me a reliable source and we'll see...

You are either reading selectively or comprehending selectively.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.

During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.

Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

 

[The Rabbi]

Because if you read your own stupid link you'd discover anyone can buy a gun in Switzerland.

And if you read his link you'll see there are restrictions on what firearms you can own and the hoops you have to jump through to get one...

Which in the case of freie Waffen is nothing.
Point made. I'll await your apology.

Which in the case of freie Waffen is nothing.
Point made. I'll await your apology.

Do you actually read shit, or just make it up as you go along. FROM the link (again, I'll even highlight in bold the relevant part)..

"In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (Waffenerwerbsschein), in accordance with Article 8 of Act. Swiss citizens over the age of 18 who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and who have a clean criminal record can request such a permit."

Now say 'thank you' to me for educating your ignorant arse....

Do you bother to read what you yourself wrote:

In order to purchase most weapons]

You understand that "most" s not the same as "all" right? It is "most" because freie Waffen are excluded. That is why they are freie.
No need to thank me for the lesson in logic and law.

Your original assertion was that 'anyone can buy a gun' in Switzerland. Not true. Again, read the bolded part. And there are restrictions on what firearms you can buy, notwithstanding the freie waffen. I never said otherwise. Have you seen the freie waffen guns? Manufactured before 1870, the Swiss army knife, muzzle loading and bolt action.

Also drillings. Which you dont know what they are.
Charles Whitman had no problem with that.
But thanks for confirming that you were wrong and I was right. Next topic.

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh dear. Please read your own source. I have even bolded the relevent parts for your edification. Dear oh dear oh dear. Thanks for proving my point.

"According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, there was a slight drop in the percent of murders committed with a firearm between 2001 and 2007 (16.0% and 13.4%, respectively). However, the percentage was highest in 2006 (16.3%) and remains higher than the low of 8.9% in 2005. There is no difference in the use of a firearm in robbery: Guns were used in 6.4% of all robberies in both 2001 and 2007.

In 2002–five years after enacting its gun ban–the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime: “The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued its declining trend since 1969.”

So much for skyrocketing crime rate....

edit: Also note that for the above stats he quotes the ABS, but for the "49 percent increase in robberies" etc he has not given a source. Give me a reliable source and we'll see...

You are either reading selectively or comprehending selectively.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.

During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.

Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.

Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.

Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

Not selective at all. We were talking about guns and violence and not violence overall. That aside, I looked into both the links and can't find a source as to how the data was collected or interpreted.

 

[Dr Grump]

But thanks for confirming that you were wrong and I was right. Next topic.

Er, no, you weren't.

 

[The Rabbi]

But thanks for confirming that you were wrong and I was right. Next topic.

Er, no, you weren't.

Yeah I was. Even you admitted that freie Waffen are so called because they are free of the other requirements to buy a gun.
QED. Your argument is toast.
Next:
There have been more guns produced and sold in this country over the last 20 years than previously. There have also been more opportunities for citizens to go armed as stated adopt liberal carry laws. At the same time crime has declined steadily. So the meme that guns cause crime is clearly wrong. If it were correct there would be more crime,and there isnt.

 

[2aguy]

Nice job guys...as each of their points is shown to be wrong as every stat goes against what they want to be true...they still hate guns....that is the thing isn't it...they have a phobia about guns and no appeal to reason will change that...sadly, when they vote they will vote for politicians who will step by step seek to ban guns and nullify the 2nd amendment....

2014 is going to be an important election...the Justice on the Supreme Court are all old and we could see the next President filling multiple seats...so if the dems still control the senate, and Hilary or another democrat wins...the 1vote,protection of the 2nd amendment will disappear for close to 30 years of decisions...

 

[The Rabbi]

Nice job guys...as each of their points is shown to be wrong as every stat goes against what they want to be true...they still hate guns....that is the thing isn't it...they have a phobia about guns and no appeal to reason will change that...sadly, when they vote they will vote for politicians who will step by step seek to ban guns and nullify the 2nd amendment....

2014 is going to be an important election...the Justice on the Supreme Court are all old and we could see the next President filling multiple seats...so if the dems still control the senate, and Hilary or another democrat wins...the 1vote,protection of the 2nd amendment will disappear for close to 30 years of decisions...

They rely on the most spurious reasoning: Some countries with strict gun control laws experience less crime than ours. Of course even when those countries didnt have strict gun control they still experienced less crime.
Or, getting guns off street means less crime. There is no such thing as guns on the street. Did anyone trip over an AK recently? There are guns that circulate in the underground economy, with dubious provenance. They are impervious to regulation because their introduction into the underground economy, their buyers and their sellers are all illegal already.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nice job guys...as each of their points is shown to be wrong as every stat goes against what they want to be true...they still hate guns....that is the thing isn't it...they have a phobia about guns and no appeal to reason will change that...sadly, when they vote they will vote for politicians who will step by step seek to ban guns and nullify the 2nd amendment....

They can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty -- and -then- theywonder why they can't pass any of the laws they want.

 

[racewright]

Nice job guys...as each of their points is shown to be wrong as every stat goes against what they want to be true...they still hate guns....that is the thing isn't it...they have a phobia about guns and no appeal to reason will change that...sadly, when they vote they will vote for politicians who will step by step seek to ban guns and nullify the 2nd amendment....

2014 is going to be an important election...the Justice on the Supreme Court are all old and we could see the next President filling multiple seats...so if the dems still control the senate, and Hilary or another democrat wins...the 1vote,protection of the 2nd amendment will disappear for close to 30 years of decisions...

They rely on the most spurious reasoning: Some countries with strict gun control laws experience less crime than ours. Of course even when those countries didnt have strict gun control they still experienced less crime.
Or, getting guns off street means less crime. There is no such thing as guns on the street. Did anyone trip over an AK recently? There are guns that circulate in the underground economy, with dubious provenance. They are impervious to regulation because their introduction into the underground economy, their buyers and their sellers are all illegal already.

Illegal--give me a break Government breaks more laws than everyone combined. I don't have to repeat the laws broken in the last 6 years let alone the last 50. You all are aware of most of them. So who cares about the law. Everyone breaks the law. ( ever turn yourself in for driving over the speed limit) It about getting caught and what to do to law breakers. The example set by government sure is piss poor. And riots in Ferguson proves that some can break the law with no consequence,just like crossing the boarder. So do you think eliminating the second amendment and creating new laws that makes gun ownership illegal is going to do anything,wake up and smell the coffee. The more government restricts gun ownership the deeper the fight to keep weapons gets. I'm a combat Vietnam vet PLANE as I can say it YA AINT GETTING MY GUNS. We now have domestic enemies to confront and always will.

 

[ChrisL]

Nice job guys...as each of their points is shown to be wrong as every stat goes against what they want to be true...they still hate guns....that is the thing isn't it...they have a phobia about guns and no appeal to reason will change that...sadly, when they vote they will vote for politicians who will step by step seek to ban guns and nullify the 2nd amendment....

They can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty -- and -then- theywonder why they can't pass any of the laws they want.

It's so true. They think they're being tricky, but they are SO transparent in their dishonest tactics. Really, sometimes I'm disgusted by liberals!!