Next Target Iran.

[Vintij]

"So when Bush asks America to give his plan to send 21,000 troops to fortify Baghdad and help train Iraqi security forces "a chance," what he's really saying is, 'regardless of what Congress, the American people and the Iraq Study Group want to see happen, I will send 50,000 under-equipped troops into the meat-grinder so that they can more effectively arm and train Shiite militias.' This, while the administration steadfastly refuses to engage in a parallel diplomatic push with Iraq's neighbors -- one that might give the plan some small chance of success -- choosing instead to rattle its saber towards Iran.

Sen. Chris Dodd responded to all this by saying: "This is the United States Senate. This is not some city council somewhere … It seems to me sending something down that engages the president, that forces the administration to pay attention is something we ought to be considering."

Russ Feingold added, "A political victory is not more important than ending this war," and he's right. With an attack against Iran seeming ever more probable, this is the time to lay down hard constraints, to cut funding for Bush's escalation, demand he seek congressional authorization to spread his conflict beyond Iraq and move towards ending the occupation. Anything less at this point is too little, too late."

I couldnt agree more. What do you people think?

 

[Avatar4321]

I think you have your head buried in the sand to ignore the obvious threat the Iranian regime poses. Personally, when people start announcing they plan to commit genocide, I think we should take them seriously.

Iran has been supplying our enemies in Iraq and even sending troops lately. Let's stop tip toeing around the issue and admit that they are engaged in a war against us.

Leaving Iraq will not stop war. The only way to stop the war is to defeat our enemies.

 

[Vintij]

So basically you want two Iraq situations? Look even if people did agree with you, its just impossible. This isnt world war 2, there is no draft. So how can we have even close to enough troops to invade iran when we are already spread thin trying to train iraqi soldiers and keep democracy in iraq? And on top of that have enough reserves back home incase of invasion. The only way it would be logical to invade iran would be to enforce the draft, and good luck getting that passed by congress. Other than that all you have are bombs, and nukes to replace soldiers.....its not logical or strategic to fight a war with just bombs and nukes, it worked in hiroshima because japan didnt have them, infact nobody had them! Now everyone has them and that would set off nuclear war. I think we can agree that nuclear war is not what anybody wants.

 

[Avatar4321]

So basically you want two Iraq situations? Look even if people did agree with you, its just impossible. This isnt world war 2, there is no draft. So how can we have even close to enough troops to invade iran when we are already spread thin trying to train iraqi soldiers and keep democracy in iraq? And on top of that have enough reserves back home incase of invasion. The only way it would be logical to invade iran would be to enforce the draft, and good luck getting that passed by congress. Other than that all you have are bombs, and nukes to replace soldiers.....its not logical or strategic to fight a war with just bombs and nukes, it worked in hiroshima because japan didnt have them, infact nobody had them! Now everyone has them and that would set off nuclear war. I think we can agree that nuclear war is not what anybody wants.

Did I say we need to invade Iran? There are plenty of things we can do to defeat an enemy without invasion. We beat the Soviets without invasion. Id just like the American people to stop pretending they arent the enemy.

If they continue fighting us in Iraq, I dont really see how we have a choice in the matter.

 

[Creek_George]

What do I think about Iran?

Wheeew..(big breath).

I remember the day we went into Iraq..and the American determination...The Spirit we all had to kick some butt...Most all of us wanted payback after 911..and we did go after the Taliwonkers in Afghanistan to remove them from power.

This war with Iraq was based totaly on bull_hit when it came to invading Iraq,to occupy...and to believe we could bring an "Operation Freedom" to the Iraqi people...It was not not about that at all..to begin with.

More U.S. Soldiers will have died...than that of the 911 terrorist attack in the weeks to months/years.....More death..and suffering than we can imagine for the innocent Iraqi people...They are the victims of our aggression...This all backfired...(my opinion).

We created a nightmare in my opinion.

I also feel other world communities knew we drumed up reasons for going there...and feel it's our mess...They are watching us even more close now..than ever before.

Iran can get away with alot right now...because even if Israel pulls any aggression the Middle East right now...well..need I say more?

It was going after weapons of mass destruction when it came to Iraq..and ties to terrorist organizations etc...to remove a bad man from power.There is no argument in that..Saddam was a ruthless man..and ruled with an iron fist.It's amazing at one time we helped train..and equiped the Iraqi's to inflict pain on the Iranian's during that war those two countries had.

I say talk with the Iranian Government...negotiate.That's just as good for them..as it is us.

This world needs a good kick in the arse..in geting along..We the U.S. need to be an influential power..Not just protecting our interests..but be a dam light-house of truth..and freedom.

I think this was a personal & money orientated adventure with Iraq..a gamble.Was our intelligence that bad just after 911?...Could that of been prevented...Obviously not with the data we had on Iraq..(shaking my head).

I am suspect of any evidence this administration pulls out from a hat..after the bologna with Iraq...Bush was such good so called friends with Putin before this war..and I bet they don't even answer the phone for eachother now.

We had most every civilized country in the world behind us after 911....we used that as an excuse to go into Iraq...But WHO did that??

American's were not protesting in the streets to attack Iraq...We wanted justice...to go after the source...Well..we believed what we were told.We were willing back then...

With failure we seek to find out why this started with Iraq..We already know how...This administration shoved it down the American peoples throat..we bought it.

Iran is not gona be an easy sell...and if Bush thinks he can ignore the American people a second time around with Iran...he's mistaken.

I see it all so clearly now in that we failed in Iraq...

If we would of succeded.. the truth in all this that brought it all about...would be clouded with victory.."Mission Accomplished".

I think this was the greatest blunder ever....100's of Billions of dollars poured into a mistake..and an open wound that will never heal.

The top brass says we couldn't handle a war with Iran...How the heck can we afford one...by puting all our cash into a previous mistake..that will end up costing more than 10 wars when all is said..and done....Some will get rick..but us tax payers will pay..Our children will be paying.

Our troops are tied down...and so is our cash supply to start more trouble.

We turned Iraq into a Gaza Strip..and then some...Peace between the Sunni & Shiites over there in Iraq...is like that of Israel & the Palestinans.

We learn from our mistakes...but this Iraq thing is a Big One.

I like pointing the finger...and can't say I supported this war to begin with.BUT at that point in time we all felt different about it..at the starting of it.

What was funny..is if this would of been said a month after we went in..it would of been bashing our troops..I believe even they look at this different now.....It was all based on the American Spirit...to question was like siding with the enemy.

The great wars of history...were protecting our freedoms..The ones now days are special interest...Usualy in the oil regions we hear conflict...Even the media..and administrations can influence us.

I have no answers..just yacking some..Spoke my mind tonight..

My life is no better..than how the affairs of the world works..But in day..to day life we gota accept it...We can't fight everything...and we all know might don't make right...

Peace...

 

[Bullypulpit]

I watched Chimpy McPresident's press conference yesterday, and it was frightening. President Bush has already made up his mind. It's not a matter of if American forces engage Iranian forces, but when and on what pretext. He's going to do what he will, everyone else be damned.

It's really little different from when he was denying the US forces would be invading Iraq all the while having made up his mind to do so. The stakes, this time, are much greater. Iran's military will not be the push-over Iraq's military was. Already stretched thin, not just in Iraq, but in general, US forces would be hard pressed to do more than fall back to defensive positions and hope for relief.

Military action would also carry the very real potential of further destabilizing the whole Middle East. Iraq is already the killing ground in a proxy-war between Sunnis and Shi'ias. Imagine the consequences to the region if Saudi Arabia sends troops in from the south, Iran sends troops in from east and Syria from the north-west. The smaller Gulf states would be swept along with whatever branch of Islam the majority of their populations adhere to. Oil production would plummet and the economic, political and military shock-waves would be felt around the world. The possibility of triggering a third world war is very real.

Chimpy and Co seem to have willfully ignored these, and other consequences of engaging in military action against Iran. And it is for that reason, as much as any other, they must be stopped. It's time for Republicans and Democrats to stop playing the bunch of quibble-dicks they are and act to stop this Administration from engaging in a course of action which could spark another global conflict. If articles of impeachment are the only way to do so, then so be it. Better a constitutional crisis in America than a world war which will make the last one seem as a Sunday school outing in comparison.

 

[Creek_George]

Well said Bullypulpit...

Good post man!

What makes me think most..if a second blunder is done...It would be like kicking some guys arse that didn't have it coming twice...The smaller ones in the school yard will join up sooner..more than later.

I always feel more safe with a group of friends...and I'm a big guy.

We can negotiate..mediate..We all play by the same rules in our communities...the world has to start sometime...We gota sit down with these people..and put sh_t to paper...more world involvement...I know the bologna in that..but going it alone has not been paying off....In an action that one needs to give a spanking..we need a dam good reason...We as people reason pretty dam good...but the world does not...I just can't grasp the madness tonight.....(smile)..It's B.S...

 

[Annie]

Well said Bullypulpit...

Good post man!

What makes me think most..if a second blunder is done...It would be like kicking some guys arse that didn't have it coming twice...The smaller ones in the school yard will join up sooner..more than later.

I always feel more safe with a group of friends...and I'm a big guy.

We can negotiate..mediate..We all play by the same rules in our communities...the world has to start sometime...We gota sit down with these people..and put sh_t to paper...more world involvement...I know the bologna in that..but going it alone has not been paying off....In an action that one needs to give a spanking..we need a dam good reason...We as people reason pretty dam good...but the world does not...I just can't grasp the madness tonight.....(smile)..It's B.S...

Which guys? The Sadr bunch? While in Iran his take seems to be anything the US is against. So not that.

 

[NuclearWinter]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9T-XzeFuYk[/ame]

Video clip about Bush and his plans for Iran.

Just click on the link above to watch.

 

[NuclearWinter]

All those who are self-mutilating lovers....get ready to get excited, because your Wish for the United States to be suckered into another War, a bloodier war, is very close to coming true.

 

[Creek_George]

Well that guy in charge now..can thank the Sadr thugs for puting him in power..He's refused to act against them..I think just as much..if not more killings have happened under him..as the Sunnis..I just am not buying all the media interpetations that we hear..(my opinion).

Negotiating with them..or not..is not an option..They can tie us down for years there just with a million investment a year in road side bombs..some gun pwder..and wire..and some pipes..and plastic..to our billions..Largest religious sect...and a strong young following...They control..we police.

In a way..we handed Iraq..to Iran..The Sunni will never have foot hold there again...A political..or military victory is not gona happen...The ones who control Iraq..are now in Iran...We can't wait them out...Life is 20 times worse now in Iraq..than under Saddam...

I'd negotiate now...more than later...We have no cards left..(my opinion)..and we're just turning over everything to those that do..and will control Iraq anyways...and that's the ones we are fighting.

We'll spend trillions to make it look like Iran & Iraq are not holding hands...Protect the border?...It's like a border between any other religion..with a dozen popes added in..Talk about confusion?...These people are serious over there....This Iraqi Freedom thing is far from the case...It looks good on paper..but over there is another world in itself.

It's now a battle from keeping this Iraq..from being another Iran..or Syria...They have tasted western aggression...see it...It's like...Ok.....I just don't see good things...Like I said..I don't have the answers...but do so wih we could all sit down at the table...What is so hard into not killing people..and making a government be responsible?

I am that way with a group of friends..camping...Even strangers that were vegetarian..and no matter what religion..

I guess with this Sadr guy...he's runing the show already..In many ways..it don't matter what we do..or say..The outcome may be his how things turn out...

Plus..it's not a U.S. thing now..it's an Iraqi thing...We have to negoiate because of the 3 main sects there...kurds,sunni..shiit...We have to leave out OUR interests there.....We have to remember..this was a war on WMD....We have a responsibilty..to sunni & shiit alike...We don't have that control..nor ever will...

So to negotiate should not be to our terms..but for the people of Iraq....the region.

Who are we fighting?...Road side bombs..Insurgents?....Special forces from Iran?...Al Qaeda?..Sunni?..Shiit Militias...all colorful names.

Nobody wants to sit at a table over there...(true)..and the red,white..and blue aint accomplishing squat.

How would one negotiate in a pile of poop like this?....We can't change sides...but we can get the rest of the Middle East...to help..Put an end to the blood shed...These people over there will hang you if kill,molest..or steal...I don't believe in the abuse of rights...especialy to women...But so many are crying right now..(mothers)..Breaks my heart..

Innocent people...massive amounts..You all know that...So where do we draw the line..and negotiate?...When we outdo the casualties...??

I'm sad now..because most Iraqi's did have hope...even after the first Gulf War...It's really sad how things turned out...

I do now admit..is there may be no one party we can/could ever negotiate with in Iraq....It just feels if we don't accomplish something...that Iraq will be worse off than Somalia..or that Dafur Region we hear so much about in Africa.

Sorry so long...a couple beers in me go a long ways..

 

[NuclearWinter]

Well that guy in charge now..can thank the Sadr thugs for puting him in power..He's refused to act against them..I think just as much..if not more killings have happened under him..as the Sunnis..I just am not buying all the media interpetations that we hear..(my opinion).

Negotiating with them..or not..is not an option..They can tie us down for years there just with a million investment a year in road side bombs..some gun pwder..and wire..and some pipes..and plastic..to our billions..Largest religious sect...and a strong young following...They control..we police.

In a way..we handed Iraq..to Iran..The Sunni will never have foot hold there again...A political..or military victory is not gona happen...The ones who control Iraq..are now in Iran...We can't wait them out...Life is 20 times worse now in Iraq..than under Saddam...

I'd negotiate now...more than later...We have no cards left..(my opinion)..and we're just turning over everything to those that do..and will control Iraq anyways...and that's the ones we are fighting.

We'll spend trillions to make it look like Iran & Iraq are not holding hands...Protect the border?...It's like a border between any other religion..with a dozen popes added in..Talk about confusion?...These people are serious over there....This Iraqi Freedom thing is far from the case...It looks good on paper..but over there is another world in itself.

It's now a battle from keeping this Iraq..from being another Iran..or Syria...They have tasted western aggression...see it...It's like...Ok.....I just don't see good things...Like I said..I don't have the answers...but do so wih we could all sit down at the table...What is so hard into not killing people..and making a government be responsible?

I am that way with a group of friends..camping...Even strangers that were vegetarian..and no matter what religion..

I guess with this Sadr guy...he's runing the show already..In many ways..it don't matter what we do..or say..The outcome may be his how things turn out...

Plus..it's not a U.S. thing now..it's an Iraqi thing...We have to negoiate because of the 3 main sects there...kurds,sunni..shiit...We have to leave out OUR interests there.....We have to remember..this was a war on WMD....We have a responsibilty..to sunni & shiit alike...We don't have that control..nor ever will...

So to negotiate should not be to our terms..but for the people of Iraq....the region.

Who are we fighting?...Road side bombs..Insurgents?....Special forces from Iran?...Al Qaeda?..Sunni?..Shiit Militias...all colorful names.

Nobody wants to sit at a table over there...(true)..and the red,white..and blue aint accomplishing squat.

How would one negotiate in a pile of poop like this?....We can't change sides...but we can get the rest of the Middle East...to help..Put an end to the blood shed...These people over there will hang you if kill,molest..or steal...I don't believe in the abuse of rights...especialy to women...But so many are crying right now..(mothers)..Breaks my heart..

Innocent people...massive amounts..You all know that...So where do we draw the line..and negotiate?...When we outdo the casualties...??

I'm sad now..because most Iraqi's did have hope...even after the first Gulf War...It's really sad how things turned out...

I do now admit..is there may be no one party we can/could ever negotiate with in Iraq....It just feels if we don't accomplish something...that Iraq will be worse off than Somalia..or that Dafur Region we hear so much about in Africa.

Sorry so long...a couple beers in me go a long ways..

Powerful Creek. Powerful because of where it comes from man. =) I hear ya.

 

[Creek_George]

Thanks NuclearWinter...just feelings bro.

High Five..(Crack).

It sure would be a challenge to mediate between two that didn't get along...Especialy if they wanted to kill eachother....(oohh man).

I'm an armchair warrior bro...but just say it how I see it from my end.I do admit..I get bumbed not as many see things my way..I was gona say "smart" enough...but that would only be half as funny to the rest of the crowd.(smile).

It just seems like the last 10 years ..and at this point in time we think about....well more world affairs stuff than ever before.

Even somebody who has never even voted before with no political ties..or beliefs is ten fold smarter than your average voter....I'm not saying everybody is stupid..and the average voter thing is just how I feel...I'm frustrated with the masses...so shoot me...LOL..

Being silly...just am a dreamer..Nothing wrong with that...

I'm the fool on the hill bro...(handshake)...and a high five..

 

[red states rule]

Well said Bullypulpit...

Good post man!

What makes me think most..if a second blunder is done...It would be like kicking some guys arse that didn't have it coming twice...The smaller ones in the school yard will join up sooner..more than later.

I always feel more safe with a group of friends...and I'm a big guy.

We can negotiate..mediate..We all play by the same rules in our communities...the world has to start sometime...We gota sit down with these people..and put sh_t to paper...more world involvement...I know the bologna in that..but going it alone has not been paying off....In an action that one needs to give a spanking..we need a dam good reason...We as people reason pretty dam good...but the world does not...I just can't grasp the madness tonight.....(smile)..It's B.S...

Neville Chamberlain thought the same thing about Hitler

50 million people died because he thought the world could sit down with the Nazi's and reason with them

 

[Avatar4321]

Powerful Creek. Powerful because of where it comes from man. =) I hear ya.

You've wander outside your normal thread... nice to see you participating more finally.

 

[Darwins Friend]

Leaving Iraq will not stop war. The only way to stop the war is to defeat our enemies.

Leaving Iraq will start the war - The Civil War.

All that’s occurring now is target practice - upon American forces.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Neville Chamberlain thought the same thing about Hitler

50 million people died because he thought the world could sit down with the Nazi's and reason with them

And thanks for playing "Really Bad Analogies"! ( Gameshow music in the background.)

The situation we face in Iraq, and the Middle East in general, is a direct result of Chimpy McPresident's failed policies, and the lies they were based upon, in Iraq.

 

[NuclearWinter]

I can't get over the fact certain people actually believe that we have a chance in Iraq. That we will "win the war on terror" by defeating the insurgents in Iraq.

At best. All we could do is liberate Iraq, even if we pushed all the insurgents out. Then what? What would we do then? Would we set up an American post there permanently? Yeah right? It would be blown up before we knew what hit us.

Rule number one. America can not take over Iraq. It can not even create a stable Iraq.

Never in history, has one country been "saved" by another country, without the people of that country taking care of the core issues for themselves.

In other words, no country ever became free, unless it was the people of THAT country itself that decided it wanted it that way.

Britain got it's ass wooped by Scottland and Ireland. lol. Back in the day. Why? Because Scottland and Ireland said, "we're taking matters into our own hands."

They didn't need another country to come in and "save the day". Nobody did anyways.

We will never win the "war on terror", because it can't be won militarily or politicly. There is no way to win a "war on terror", when you have no real enemy to defeat. That war could go on for ages (it won't it will only last for another 3-4 years or so due to Mother Nature interfering), but if she didn't, I guarantee you that this war would never end. EVER. If the Controllers had it their way, we would be suckered into fighting the war on "terror" for thousands upon thousands of years.

And they would have hoped to eliminate most of the World's population as well.

These people are sick, twisted, and they have an agenda that will never work for them. They truly believe that they are on the verge of achieving total dominance. They are wrong. lol. They are on the verge of watching all that dissapear, they just don't know it yet.

It's funny to watch all of this stuff from the outside looking in. You can see it all clearly that way.

Whatever you do folks, don't let yourself get dragged into the illusion of it all. Once you get pulled into it, you can't see clearly in one direction or the other. No, you need to remain outside of it all, observing, and then you can see what's really going on here.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I think you have your head buried in the sand to ignore the obvious threat the Iranian regime poses. Personally, when people start announcing they plan to commit genocide, I think we should take them seriously.

Iran has been supplying our enemies in Iraq and even sending troops lately. Let's stop tip toeing around the issue and admit that they are engaged in a war against us.

Leaving Iraq will not stop war. The only way to stop the war is to defeat our enemies.

The only ones blind to any threat here are those who continue to support Chimpy and Co in their messianic, manichean vision. They are blind to the very real threat this Administration poses, not only to the very foundation of the Republic, but the world as a whole. They threaten the very fabric of the Constitution, which they SWORE to uphold and defend. They threaten to further destabilize the middle east and, in doing so, the peace of the world as a whole.

 

[red states rule]

The only ones blind to any threat here are those who continue to support Chimpy and Co in their messianic, manichean vision. They are blind to the very real threat this Administration poses, not only to the very foundation of the Republic, but the world as a whole. They threaten the very fabric of the Constitution, which they SWORE to uphold and defend. They threaten to further destabilize the middle east and, in doing so, the peace of the world as a whole.

The only one blind are libs who see the only threat to the US is Pres Bush. Libs are consumed with their hate and rage for the man they fail to see they are handing a victrory to the terrorists on a silver platter

If the terrorists hit the US again, lisb will smile, and start ranting how Pres bush failed to protect the US