New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 20

[elektra]

New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 2025

Solar power may be well on its way to near-global cost competitiveness with natural gas by 2025, according to new numbers from Lux Research. And rather than acting purely as market competitors, the two energy sources could form a symbiosis with the construction of hybrid plants that make use of both.

Lux Research used a “bottom-up system cost model” to analyze the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for solar, natural gas, and hybrid systems using both sources. In plain terms, the LCOE is the cost per kilowatt-hour of a given energy source, accounting for all the costs involved across its life cycle. Lux’s analysis covered 10 global regions through 2030, and ran through three different scenarios: a “Low Gas Price Scenario,” a “High Gas Price Scenario,” and a “Likely Gas Price Scenario.”

The result was that under both the Likely and High scenarios, the LCOE of solar — unsubsidized by any government program — met or dropped below natural gas’ LCOE in virtually every region of the world by 2025.

New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 2025 | ThinkProgress

This is not a report, its political propaganda from George Soros and Media Matters with a heavy does of John Podesta, President Bill Clinton's former chief of staff.

People actually respond to political propaganda as if its "science".

 

[westwall]

I don't understand how people can be so anti-something that will last us for over a billion years, Unlike the fussil fuels that will be gone within the next 200 year. Fusil fuels also take money and resources to hunt down and a "middle man" like system of ground to plant. Why deal with it?

This is my main point as co2 really isn't that big of a deal comparably in my mind. Heck, I am not suggesting 100% baseload of solar, wind and wave. More like 20% nuclear, 15% hydro, 15% wind, 15% solar, 5% tide or wave, and maybe 30% fusil fuels like natural gas.

Won't be the economic disaster we're setting our selves up within the next 100 years. This is what you call planning. I am also not against some pollution as long as it is taken care of. I AM FOR silicon chips for our computers that we take care of as we speak.

I understand your point but reality is one day going to force us to go down this street. Why not thank god we have a system like this in place when we do?

The economic disaster is going to happen within the next 20 years and it will be thanks to idiots squandering huge quantities of cash on inefficient energy systems like solar and wind. I hope you are around to watch it implode. Then, maybe, you'll learn something.

 

[elektra]

I don't understand how people can be so anti-something that will last us for over a billion years, Unlike the fussil fuels that will be gone within the next 200 year. Fusil fuels also take money and resources to hunt down and a "middle man" like system of ground to plant. Why deal with it?

This is my main point as co2 really isn't that big of a deal comparably in my mind. Heck, I am not suggesting 100% baseload of solar, wind and wave. More like 20% nuclear, 15% hydro, 15% wind, 15% solar, 5% tide or wave, and maybe 30% fusil fuels like natural gas.

Won't be the economic disaster we're setting our selves up within the next 100 years. This is what you call planning. I am also not against some pollution as long as it is taken care of. I AM FOR silicon chips for our computers that we take care of as we speak.

I understand your point but reality is one day going to force us to go down this street. Why not thank god we have a system like this in place when we do?

Solar Power requires massive amounts of Fossil Fuel, you can not manufacture, install, maintain Solar Power without a constant source of Fossil Fuel, the construction of Solar Power plants is increasing the use of Fossil Fuels across the world, just the opposite of what Matthew believes.

 

[ScienceRocks]

So when you go mostly off the grid using solar = you're using more fossil fuels.

Doesn't make sense.

 

[westwall]

So when you go mostly off the grid using solar = you're using more fossil fuels.

Doesn't make sense.

How were the solar modules manufactured Matthew? What are the cable sheaths made of? What is the process to manufacture the storage batteries? As Khan said, you're not thinking two dimensionally, you're thinking in one.

 

[lakeview]

New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 2025

Solar power may be well on its way to near-global cost competitiveness with natural gas by 2025, according to new numbers from Lux Research. And rather than acting purely as market competitors, the two energy sources could form a symbiosis with the construction of hybrid plants that make use of both.

Lux Research used a “bottom-up system cost model” to analyze the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for solar, natural gas, and hybrid systems using both sources. In plain terms, the LCOE is the cost per kilowatt-hour of a given energy source, accounting for all the costs involved across its life cycle. Lux’s analysis covered 10 global regions through 2030, and ran through three different scenarios: a “Low Gas Price Scenario,” a “High Gas Price Scenario,” and a “Likely Gas Price Scenario.”

The result was that under both the Likely and High scenarios, the LCOE of solar — unsubsidized by any government program — met or dropped below natural gas’ LCOE in virtually every region of the world by 2025.

New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 2025 | ThinkProgress

So what?

This is wishful thinking and the time frame is too short. If they had said 2065 I might have given it some thought but 2025 is too soon for our infrastructure to change.

 

[RGR]

New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 2025

Cool! When do folks figure they'll solve that "when the sun don't shine" problem by?

 

[RGR]

Solar Power requires massive amounts of Fossil Fuel, you can not manufacture, install, maintain Solar Power without a constant source of Fossil Fuel, the construction of Solar Power plants is increasing the use of Fossil Fuels across the world, just the opposite of what Matthew believes.

A little too specific methinks. You can't maintain or create solar power without plenty of chemical feedstocks....some of which involve large numbers of carbon and hydrogen atoms. CH4 is not necessarily a "fossil" fuel, but can be used to assemble all the things folks think of when they SAY "fossil fuels". Liquid fuels to run repair trucks for example.

No requirement written into the US Constitution or Laws of Nature that I am aware of requiring that this CH4 only come from thermogenically constructed natural gas from buried organic matter. Nothing wrong with good old fashioned non-buried organic matter, or CH4 of any origin trapped on the sea bed, or biolgenic natural gas trapped in rock formations like the Antrim Shale.

 

[RGR]

Solar energy is a gigantic failure on a global scale. I wish it worked.

It does work. No wishing required. The problem really is the global scale part. Well, that and the sun not shining when it is supposed to.

Fortunately, a balanced mix of solar type stuff, wind, nukes, hydro, natural gas, tides, coal is what we are evolving towards and it is a reasonable answer to the question.

 

[flacaltenn]

So when you go mostly off the grid using solar = you're using more fossil fuels.

Doesn't make sense.

Gave you the numbers from metastudies Matthew.. They are all respectable "GUESSES".. A solar panel with a 30 yr life "pays out" somewhere between 30 and 90 gramsCO2/KWhr.

This compares to a Euro mix of generation at about 430gramCO2/KWhr. So it is LOW --- but NOT zero.. Say 25% CO2 of the current generation mix..

But that is just MANUFACTURING. DOES NOT INCLUDE MINING or feedstock chemicals. So maybe the more accurate number is maybe 40% of current gen mix.

THis does NOT COUNT the MUCH LARGER CO2 burden when the battery barns and maintenance are included.. At that point, where you have enough solar to REQUIRE battery smoothing --- you've pretty much lost the eco advantage.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Well, looks to me like a bunch of people disagree with you, Henry. Look at the increase in residential since 2010.

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Parts of the southwest has reached grid parity without subsidies. Only gets better as this spreads.

It's also funny that Texas has more wind then California. The old conservatives use to be pro-business and possibly 40% still are. So when the boom keeps spreading throughout the nation the republican party will fracture on this issue.

 

[westwall]

Well, looks to me like a bunch of people disagree with you, Henry. Look at the increase in residential since 2010.

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Parts of the southwest has reached grid parity without subsidies. Only gets better as this spreads.

It's also funny that Texas has more wind then California. The old conservatives use to be pro-business and possibly 40% still are. So when the boom keeps spreading throughout the nation the republican party will fracture on this issue.

There are more conservationists in California. they care that endangered birds are being massacred by windmills. The greedy assholes in Texas don't give a shit. Look who you're supporting...

 

[RGR]

I don't understand how people can be so anti-something that will last us for over a billion years, Unlike the fussil fuels that will be gone within the next 200 year.

We aren't anti. We just want to turn on our lights at 11PM to chase off a burglar and have them work without us needing to rotate the earth into the correct position to give us sunlight to power the panels.

Fusil fuels also take money and resources to hunt down and a "middle man" like system of ground to plant. Why deal with it?

You tell us, you are undoubtedly using them right now in one form or fashion. Why should we listen to you when you can't even play the game you want to force on the rest of us?

This is my main point as co2 really isn't that big of a deal comparably in my mind. Heck, I am not suggesting 100% baseload of solar, wind and wave. More like 20% nuclear, 15% hydro, 15% wind, 15% solar, 5% tide or wave, and maybe 30% fusil fuels like natural gas.

Yeah, that's what the rational folks figure as well. But we don't run around pimping capacity rather than actual generation, so you should stop that one, if you want to join us rational folks.

I understand your point but reality is one day going to force us to go down this street. Why not thank god we have a system like this in place when we do?

What does God have to do with the practical application of the knowledge that power grid engineers already have?

 

[RGR]

Well, looks to me like a bunch of people disagree with you, Henry. Look at the increase in residential since 2010.

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Parts of the southwest has reached grid parity without subsidies. Only gets better as this spreads.

So you HAVE figured out a way to keep the sun up longer? Amazing....

 

[elektra]

Well, looks to me like a bunch of people disagree with you, Henry. Look at the increase in residential since 2010.

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Parts of the southwest has reached grid parity without subsidies. Only gets better as this spreads.

So you HAVE figured out a way to keep the sun up longer? Amazing....

They have figured out a way as well as a way to give solar as much energy as natural gas, its simple, they now power Solar with Natural Gas. SOLAR NO LONGER REQUIRES THE SUN.

Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System - 07-AFC-05

Each plant also includes a partial-load natural gas-fired steam boiler, which would be used for thermal input to the turbine during the morning start-up cycle to assist the plant in coming up to operating temperature more quickly. The boiler would also be operated during transient cloudy conditions, in order to maintain the turbine on-line and ready to resume production from solar thermal input, after the clouds pass. After the clouds pass and solar thermal input resumes, the turbine would be returned to full solar production.

 

[HenryBHough]

From personal experience with wind machines I'd guess that OSHA will step in and put the brakes on after about the third person is killed by flying pieces from shattered blades.

Solar panels fly well, too, especially when homeowners invent their own supports.

 

[elektra]

From personal experience with wind machines I'd guess that OSHA will step in and put the brakes on after about the third person is killed by flying pieces from shattered blades.

Solar panels fly well, too, especially when homeowners invent their own supports.

Wind Turbines last forever, they do not break, they are renewable and clean, infinite energy once installed so I am not sure where you come up with this OSHA flying shattered blade thing.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Hell of a lot better then 100,000 people/year dying from health problems because of coal.

People like you really are clueless as you lie and spin everything to support your gods. Solar isn't even one thousandth as pollunt outside of a controlled manfracuturing process as coal that burns into our air.

Sad how some people live to spin.

 

[RGR]

From personal experience with wind machines I'd guess that OSHA will step in and put the brakes on after about the third person is killed by flying pieces from shattered blades.

Solar panels fly well, too, especially when homeowners invent their own supports.

Wind Turbines last forever, they do not break, they are renewable and clean, infinite energy once installed so I am not sure where you come up with this OSHA flying shattered blade thing.

Love that pic. Wind turbine bites the dust!!

 

[RGR]

Hell of a lot better then 100,000 people/year dying from health problems because of coal.

Bullshit. If you cared about where your power came from any differently than anyone else you wouldn't be posting on a computer built from petrochemicals and powered by various forms of fossil fuels, including coal and the benefits thereof, such as the manufacturing of the steel that went into any vehicle you drive or are driven in, construction of roads and bridges and everything else you would just as soon pretend doesn't exist and can be made from sunlight.

You have a belief system, you demand that everyone else believe in what your Big Voice From The Sky tells you, and are on a pilgrimage to sell your zealotry to the heathens.

How many folks die based on power generation YOU are perfectly HAPPY to use has nothing to do with your belief system

Sad how some people live to spin.

Agreed. When you stop benefiting from the type of power generation you are complaining about, you can speak on the topic without being a hypocrite.