New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 20

[ScienceRocks]

New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 2025

Solar power may be well on its way to near-global cost competitiveness with natural gas by 2025, according to new numbers from Lux Research. And rather than acting purely as market competitors, the two energy sources could form a symbiosis with the construction of hybrid plants that make use of both.

Lux Research used a “bottom-up system cost model” to analyze the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for solar, natural gas, and hybrid systems using both sources. In plain terms, the LCOE is the cost per kilowatt-hour of a given energy source, accounting for all the costs involved across its life cycle. Lux’s analysis covered 10 global regions through 2030, and ran through three different scenarios: a “Low Gas Price Scenario,” a “High Gas Price Scenario,” and a “Likely Gas Price Scenario.”

The result was that under both the Likely and High scenarios, the LCOE of solar — unsubsidized by any government program — met or dropped below natural gas’ LCOE in virtually every region of the world by 2025.

New Report Says Solar Will Achieve Near-Global Competitiveness With Natural Gas By 2025 | ThinkProgress

 

[HenryBHough]

But who turns their electric lights on when the sun is high in the sky?

If solar is going to replace anything in practical terms what's needed is efficient, cost-effective storage.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I agree with you that we need storage. This is why the next generation batteries will be make or break for 25%+ or more solar.

 

[Old Rocks]

Flow Batteries Going Grid Scale | EE Times

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Cheaper and 10 times the power density of lithium-ion batteries -- those are the claims MIT researchers are making about their flow battery design.

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology said in a press release that the low-cost, simplified flow battery design aims to satisfy the Department of Energy's target of less than $100 per kilowatt-hour for mass adoption of grid-scale energy storage for wind farms, solar arrays, and energy-efficient buildings. The key to the cost reduction is the elimination of the ion-exchange membrane in a flow battery. MIT says its system offers "a power density that is an order of magnitude higher than that of many lithium-ion batteries."

The battery prototype, designed by MIT professors Cullen Buie and Martin Bazant and doctoral candidate William Braff, handles three times as much power per unit volume as even the most advanced rival designs, MIT said. The prototype uses a laminar flow of two liquids pumped through a channel in parallel without mixing. Instead of having ions permeate a membrane to travel between electrodes, the battery uses electochemical reactions at the electrodes -- located at each end of the channel -- to charge and discharge as it stores and supplies energy.

 

[Old Rocks]

A new power grid battery emerges with a deal from Siemens ? Tech News and Analysis

Batteries could do wonders for the power grid — but odds are, the winning technology won’t come from those good ole’ lithium ion batteries that power our laptops and which Tesla is using for its electric cars. Startup Aquion Energy thinks the answer to the future of grid batteries will come from an entirely new type of chemistry — one that uses basic materials and is ultra low cost — and the company on Tuesday plans to announce an important partnership with grid heavyweight Siemens that could help see Aquion’s brand new grid batteries move into the market more quickly.

Aquion said that Siemens has purchased a shipment of its grid batteries and it will be testing those batteries with Siemen’s power inverter technology. If Siemens likes the technology — and it works as advertised — the idea is that Siemens could eventually bundle the batteries with its power grid infrastructure and sell it to customers like solar farm developers; though the partnership is just a memorandum of understanding at this point.

It might sound like a routine agreement, and in some respects, it’s the type of relationship that all new technologies need to score. But it’s a big deal for the young startup that was founded in 2007 and which has yet to scale up its manufacturing to a commercial level. That won’t happen until mid-2014, and Aquion is just starting to deliver its final battery products to pilot customers now.

 

[Old Rocks]

ViZn Energy Systems, Inc. Launches Large Scale Energy Storage Battery for Micro-Grid Market

Zinc Redox Flow Battery is Capable of 10,000 Cycles and 20 Plus Year Lifespan

Columbia Falls, MT (PRWEB) September 17, 2013

What is the key to effectively utilizing alternative energy sources such as wind and solar? Safe and inexpensive storage. Today the industry moves one giant step closer to solving the world’s energy limitation as ViZn Energy Systems, Inc. (formerly Zinc Air, Inc.) starts manufacturing its new Zinc Redox Flow Battery for customer pre-orders in the US and Europe.
ViZn’s Z20 160 kWh Zinc Redox Flow Battery is one of the most cost-effective and safe energy flow batteries on the market capable of providing scalable storage systems for the growing micro-grid markets and renewable integration.
“Right now more than 50 percent of all power generated is wasted before it ever gets to the end user,” explains Craig Wilkins, ViZn Energy Systems, Inc., President and CEO. “Storage batteries like our flow battery could help eliminate the billions of dollars of wasted energy each year. The impact this could have on the world is tremendous. It is understandable why the global smart grid market is expected to cumulatively surpass 400 billion dollars worldwide by 2020, according to a recent report by GTM Research.”
With more than fifteen years of research and intense product development cycles behind it, ViZn’s patented flow-battery technology breaks the cost/benefit threshold that is currently limiting widespread adoption of storage. Delivering a 1MW /2.5MWh battery system at lower pricing than current competition allows for more rapid industry adoption, wider commercial acceptance, and greater reduction of fossil fuel carbon emissions. ViZn’s Zinc Redox Flow Battery has overcome the key obstacles faced within the industry with an inventive use of materials and chemistry to provide a solution that is:
Cost Effective: ViZn implements low-cost chemistry, construction materials, and manufacturing processes that provide the foundation for a cost-effective system. In a micro-grid application, the ViZn battery system teamed with renewable generation can provide 20 percent annual returns over diesel-only generation

 

[Old Rocks]

There is such an obvious market out there for a large grid scale battery that there are many players with many differant appoachs working on it 27-7. Mathew, I do believe that we will see more than one successful design before 2025.

 

[HenryBHough]

While I have personally made good use of solar in an off-grid location and know many others who have done so I don't think it'll catch on for most people. Not until solar is used by wide-area grids so the individual homeowner or renter doesn't have to buy/maintain solar panels, batteries, etc. Maintain? Yup. They get dirty and have to be washed or lose efficiency. In cold climates you have to clear the snow, frost or ice. Plus they have a finite life expectancy.

Now triple that maintenance issue for wind power and you can see where it all goes.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, looks to me like a bunch of people disagree with you, Henry. Look at the increase in residential since 2010.

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

 

[HenryBHough]

Well, looks to me like a bunch of people disagree with you, Henry. Look at the increase in residential since 2010.

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Yes, many have done so. And will continue to do so as long as they are able and willing to do the maintenance. Also lots of them are doing "net metering" - selling power back to the grid when they make an excess (for their own use) and buying power back at other times.

The number of those who have bought into solar looks large when seen as a number but miniscule when seen as a percentage of electricity users. The rubber will meet the road several years down the road when a large portion of the buyers allow systems to fall into disrepair and abandon them in place.

 

[flacaltenn]

There is such an obvious market out there for a large grid scale battery that there are many players with many differant appoachs working on it 27-7. Mathew, I do believe that we will see more than one successful design before 2025.

Meanwhile, in the REAL world... THIS is the state of art in GRID SCALE battery storage.

All $500Mill of it... ((Price to build in China.. In Sacramento --- you're looking at probably $1Bill and a decade of licensing and regulation))

What would THIS do for solar? It won't extend the power to the evenings.. At 36MWhrs, it's barely enough to light 12,000 homes for 3 hours.. That is ASSUMING the solar plant produced 36MWhrs IN EXCESS OF DEMAND during the day...

All $500Mill is gonna buy you is a huge toxic waste stream and MAYBE an hour of switching time to fire up the REAL GRID generators back up..

Cali needs 10 or 12 of these RIGHT NOW ---- just for the wind/solar they've already installed. Do the math Trekkies... You're pretty much hosed..

 

[whitehall]

Is it a joke or did the enviro-nuts finally throw in the towel and admit that solar technology is a bust and the Obama administration threw away billions in taxpayer money to fund deadbeat corporations that accomplished nothing but contributing campaign funds? Now the pitiful remnants of the global warming scare seem to be relying on left wing "new reports" that actually promise nothing but a vague wish that solar technology might be viable in another 20 years.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

There is such an obvious market out there for a large grid scale battery that there are many players with many differant appoachs working on it 27-7. Mathew, I do believe that we will see more than one successful design before 2025.

Meanwhile, in the REAL world... THIS is the state of art in GRID SCALE battery storage.

All $500Mill of it... ((Price to build in China.. In Sacramento --- you're looking at probably $1Bill and a decade of licensing and regulation))

What would THIS do for solar? It won't extend the power to the evenings.. At 36MWhrs, it's barely enough to light 12,000 homes for 3 hours.. That is ASSUMING the solar plant produced 36MWhrs IN EXCESS OF DEMAND during the day...

All $500Mill is gonna buy you is a huge toxic waste stream and MAYBE an hour of switching time to fire up the REAL GRID generators back up..

Cali needs 10 or 12 of these RIGHT NOW ---- just for the wind/solar they've already installed. Do the math Trekkies... You're pretty much hosed..

Don't forget silver! Solar panels need scads of silver to make them work.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I don't understand how people can be so anti-something that will last us for over a billion years, Unlike the fussil fuels that will be gone within the next 200 year. Fusil fuels also take money and resources to hunt down and a "middle man" like system of ground to plant. Why deal with it?

This is my main point as co2 really isn't that big of a deal comparably in my mind. Heck, I am not suggesting 100% baseload of solar, wind and wave. More like 20% nuclear, 15% hydro, 15% wind, 15% solar, 5% tide or wave, and maybe 30% fusil fuels like natural gas.

Won't be the economic disaster we're setting our selves up within the next 100 years. This is what you call planning. I am also not against some pollution as long as it is taken care of. I AM FOR silicon chips for our computers that we take care of as we speak.

I understand your point but reality is one day going to force us to go down this street. Why not thank god we have a system like this in place when we do?

 

[ScienceRocks]

There is such an obvious market out there for a large grid scale battery that there are many players with many differant appoachs working on it 27-7. Mathew, I do believe that we will see more than one successful design before 2025.

Meanwhile, in the REAL world... THIS is the state of art in GRID SCALE battery storage.

All $500Mill of it... ((Price to build in China.. In Sacramento --- you're looking at probably $1Bill and a decade of licensing and regulation))

What would THIS do for solar? It won't extend the power to the evenings.. At 36MWhrs, it's barely enough to light 12,000 homes for 3 hours.. That is ASSUMING the solar plant produced 36MWhrs IN EXCESS OF DEMAND during the day...

All $500Mill is gonna buy you is a huge toxic waste stream and MAYBE an hour of switching time to fire up the REAL GRID generators back up..

Cali needs 10 or 12 of these RIGHT NOW ---- just for the wind/solar they've already installed. Do the math Trekkies... You're pretty much hosed..

Don't forget silver! Solar panels need scads of silver to make them work.

Earth is not the only source of silver Of course for earth only people that maybe a problem.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I don't want our grandchildren or great grandchildren to face the reality of us running out of fossil fuels. We can give them a real system that won't run out I wish like hell it could of been fusion but we're left with the list above.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Meanwhile, in the REAL world... THIS is the state of art in GRID SCALE battery storage.

All $500Mill of it... ((Price to build in China.. In Sacramento --- you're looking at probably $1Bill and a decade of licensing and regulation))

What would THIS do for solar? It won't extend the power to the evenings.. At 36MWhrs, it's barely enough to light 12,000 homes for 3 hours.. That is ASSUMING the solar plant produced 36MWhrs IN EXCESS OF DEMAND during the day...

All $500Mill is gonna buy you is a huge toxic waste stream and MAYBE an hour of switching time to fire up the REAL GRID generators back up..

Cali needs 10 or 12 of these RIGHT NOW ---- just for the wind/solar they've already installed. Do the math Trekkies... You're pretty much hosed..

Don't forget silver! Solar panels need scads of silver to make them work.

Earth is not the only source of silver Of course for earth only people that maybe a problem.

How much is it going to take to get that extraterrestrial silver down here and how do you suppose it will be obtained with no manned space flight program, Mr. Smartypants?

 

[whitehall]

Solar energy is a gigantic failure on a global scale. I wish it worked. I would have bought the junk if it worked but it doesn't. It takes a football field of expensive solar junk to energize a freaking middle class home. How the hell do the solar corporations visualize anything that violates the laws of physics in 20 years?

 

[HenryBHough]

Now ya got me wondering how Sharia Law might come to grips with The Laws of Physics. Obama has the better part of three more years to figger that out. And I'm sure He'll try.

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't understand how people can be so anti-something that will last us for over a billion years, Unlike the fussil fuels that will be gone within the next 200 year. Fusil fuels also take money and resources to hunt down and a "middle man" like system of ground to plant. Why deal with it?

This is my main point as co2 really isn't that big of a deal comparably in my mind. Heck, I am not suggesting 100% baseload of solar, wind and wave. More like 20% nuclear, 15% hydro, 15% wind, 15% solar, 5% tide or wave, and maybe 30% fusil fuels like natural gas.

Won't be the economic disaster we're setting our selves up within the next 100 years. This is what you call planning. I am also not against some pollution as long as it is taken care of. I AM FOR silicon chips for our computers that we take care of as we speak.

I understand your point but reality is one day going to force us to go down this street. Why not thank god we have a system like this in place when we do?

That mix you gave above is not unrealistic.. But, the backbone generation cannot COUNT on wind or solar. And Hydro is NATIONALLY only about 8% and is not likely to increase as a percentage and almost impossible to expand with demand. So you've got to make up 7% there and about 4% for most of the tidal or wave that's never gonna happen.

If you use solar as a daytime peaker --- you need to cover 80% of the daytime demand at 10PM at night with some other baseline generator. Which implies that 20% solar is a limit, but due to the need of having a margin in the system -- it is more like 15% or 10% max..

And wind is hardly worth the effort since it needs CONSTANT backup available and storage and switching and it's lifetime and maintenance costs are very high. So you are short about 11 --> 20% that needs to come from nuclear or fossil fuel..

You could get that mix TODAY (or close to it) if you built nuclear right now.

But PERCENTAGE is not INCREASED demand. That's not gonna come from hydro, and if it comes from solar --- any increase in demand HAS TO BE MATCHED with nuclear or fossil anyway...