New ideas…?

[Andylusion]

I am totally cool with the idea of taking half of Zuckerberg's wealth and giving it to America.

"giving it to America".... Every time some country has engaged in such stupid activities, the results are catastrophic. Maybe you missed it, but Chavez and Maduro just did that in Venezuela. They nationalized tons of wealth, and gave it to Venezuela. Now people are dying in starvation.

Your stupidity does not work. How many times do you idiots have to try your incompetent theories, and have them result in mass death, before you figure out you can't "steal" your way to growth and prosperity?

Instead of being a greed driven thief, trying to figure out way to take what others have earned, how about you go out and earn your own wealth? And if you are doing that already, how about you push that as a policy for others to follow?

 

[task0778]

I am totally cool with the idea of taking half of Zuckerberg's wealth and giving it to America.

And are you cool with the idea of taking half of your wealth too and giving it to America? Why stop at half, how about we take every fucking thing you have, house, car, money, everything you have and redistribute it to somebody else who hasn't earned it, could earn it, but doesn't want to earn it? You cool with that too? And not just you, but everybody, including people from other countries who want what you got. Why not, if they can find a way to get here legally or otherwise, you're cool with that too, right?

Question: been to Venezuela lately? Why would it be any different here?

What's so awful about expecting someone like Zuckerberg to pay his fair share? Take away half his wealth and he's still a multi-billionaire. What the fuck good has he ever contributed to American society? What product does he make? How does silicon valley's penchant for hiring HB1 visa holders from India help the American worker prosper?

Didn't answer my questions. Here's a few more:

You're not talking about income, you're talking about wealth, as in private property that has already been taxed. Who gets to decide what someone's "fair share" is, and who has to pay it? Do you really want to live under a gov't that decides how much of your property they can arbitrarily seize? Why stop at half? Do you think such a gov't would be satisfied with half?

Do you intend to differentiate between those who contributed to society and those who don't when it comes to confiscating your property, as much as they want of it? How are you going to do that, what are the criteria and who is going to determine who loses? What are the odds that people who disagree with the gov't would be subjected to confiscation more than those who don't?

All of this so far does not address the question of the impact of such a policy on our society and our economy. Who's gonna bust ass, who's gonna innovate, who's gonna invest in business expansion and new start-ups if the gov't can take whatever they want of what you have at any point? Fuck it, why work at all if the gov't is going to subsidize me anyway?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I am totally cool with the idea of taking half of Zuckerberg's wealth and giving it to America.

"giving it to America".... Every time some country has engaged in such stupid activities, the results are catastrophic. Maybe you missed it, but Chavez and Maduro just did that in Venezuela. They nationalized tons of wealth, and gave it to Venezuela. Now people are dying in starvation.

Your stupidity does not work. How many times do you idiots have to try your incompetent theories, and have them result in mass death, before you figure out you can't "steal" your way to growth and prosperity?

Instead of being a greed driven thief, trying to figure out way to take what others have earned, how about you go out and earn your own wealth? And if you are doing that already, how about you push that as a policy for others to follow?

Well..you can steal your way to prosperity..as a nation. You just have to steal from someone else. Stealing from yourself results in tragedy..every time. As a nation..we have done what all nations do..and tried our best to take as much of the world's resource as we can..for the enrichment of our country. We've done a great job..and are still doing it. But the gravy train stops sometime..and it is not as easy to snatch the goodies as it once was. The billionaires do give something back..jobs, wages..some of them give billions...like the Gates foundation. I'm convinced that the folks that wish to impoverish the rich are operating out of sheer jealousy..and a petty desire to see the high brought low.

Like the man said..if you want more..go out and get it! This is one of the few nations on the face of the planet where that is even possible. I will never settle for the mediocrity of Socialism realized. Man was meant to strive..and rise, by his merits and by his luck. The day our country votes in a dole..a universal income..is the day we die as a nation.

 

[Rustic]

The foolishness of socialism knows no bounds....

 

[task0778]

Lol
Anyone else getting sick of The failed philosophy of taking from the Successful/rich giving to the failed/poor? It’s such an old idea that it’s been tried countless times and in countless ways, and has failed and countless times in countless ways... So much so it has 100% failure rate

Albert Would be ashamed, trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results…

Socialism ~ is a dead end of old ideas, of shallow minded fools...

Agreed..while I believe in a robust social safety net..Socialism as a method of governing is just plain stupid.

you asked for new ideas--I'll invite the inevitable kicking..by throwing one out there:

A concerted effort to move to large employee-owned businesses...to wipe out the gulf between owner and worker..and eliminate the useless parasite called the 'shareholder'.
Such an organization would be more able to weather the storms of economic downturn by adjusting wages, instead of firing employees. With no dividends owed..there would be no exporting jobs in the name of 'fiduciary responsibility'. As an added benefit, one could mitigate the abuses of speculation--and the deleterious effects on the country.
Don't get me wrong, there will always be a need for a stock market..to raise large amounts of capital..and those that take the risk should reap the reward...I just think that if a large segment..say 40% of our large, 100+ employees, were owned by the employees, it might just save the Middle-class.

Now..let the kicking begin!!

Wondered if you realize that employees in an employee-owned business are in fact shareholders. Who receive dividends or the equivalent every year or whenever the agreement stipulates. You realize that it requires a lot of capital to start-up a business and keep it going long enough to survive, right? Or to expand an existing business, and for that you need investors cuz banks are going to front you the money without some assets. So where do you think the seed money comes from? You gotta pay it back, plus interest.

I got no problem with the idea, but I don't think it's the panacea that you think it is.

How Does an Employee-Owned Company Work?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Lol
Anyone else getting sick of The failed philosophy of taking from the Successful/rich giving to the failed/poor? It’s such an old idea that it’s been tried countless times and in countless ways, and has failed and countless times in countless ways... So much so it has 100% failure rate

Albert Would be ashamed, trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results…

Socialism ~ is a dead end of old ideas, of shallow minded fools...

Agreed..while I believe in a robust social safety net..Socialism as a method of governing is just plain stupid.

you asked for new ideas--I'll invite the inevitable kicking..by throwing one out there:

A concerted effort to move to large employee-owned businesses...to wipe out the gulf between owner and worker..and eliminate the useless parasite called the 'shareholder'.
Such an organization would be more able to weather the storms of economic downturn by adjusting wages, instead of firing employees. With no dividends owed..there would be no exporting jobs in the name of 'fiduciary responsibility'. As an added benefit, one could mitigate the abuses of speculation--and the deleterious effects on the country.
Don't get me wrong, there will always be a need for a stock market..to raise large amounts of capital..and those that take the risk should reap the reward...I just think that if a large segment..say 40% of our large, 100+ employees, were owned by the employees, it might just save the Middle-class.

Now..let the kicking begin!!

Wondered if you realize that employees in an employee-owned business are in fact shareholders. Who receive dividends or the equivalent every year or whenever the agreement stipulates. You realize that it requires a lot of capital to start-up a business and keep it going long enough to survive, right? Or to expand an existing business, and for that you need investors cuz banks are going to front you the money without some assets. So where do you think the seed money comes from? You gotta pay it back, plus interest.

I got no problem with the idea, but I don't think it's the panacea that you think it is.

How Does an Employee-Owned Company Work?

Yeah..I know all this..but for simplicity's sake I omitted a lot in the post. Initial capitalization is always the big bugaboo. I do know most employee-owned start-ups defer dividends in favor of plowing value back into the company and servicing the inevitable debt that start-ups incur. The best models seem to be a group of people that have both the knowledge and enough capital assets to secure a loan..then if they survive the initial 5 or so years...they become self-sustaining.

Panacea? If so, it would be if the critical threshold of self-owned companies in the economy was reached. We are talking decades here...but I do believe that the idea is viable...I don't know that we will ever find out though...the scale is pretty large!

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

And we should instead give the money to you for what so you can smoke crack till you die?

Btw no companies pay taxes They just collect them...that's how it works and not a damn thing you can do about it.



.

Believe it or not, but there are decent American citizens who have been dealt a bad hand in life and need a hand. Many of them are kids who are slaves to the whims of their materialistic, degenerate single moms who wouldn't be the way she is if not for corporate entertainment media brainwashing her into becoming a whore.

Yeah fuck them kids, right? Let them STARVE.

They starve anyway. If mom is a POS, she’s not changing anytime soon. She’s just going to repeat the same things over again. Sometimes kids survive, and become more responsible than their parents. It’s not the responsibility of society, or these bad rich successful people to care for someone else’s collateral damage. And kindness is weakness to many.


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That’s your opinion. Others want to live in a community that takes care of their sick, poor, elderly and children.

Pay your way. I take care of my family, and don’t make excuses. I don’t trash people who took risks and were successful. I don’t expect them to pay for me.


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[jillian]

Lol
Anyone else getting sick of The failed philosophy of taking from the Successful/rich giving to the failed/poor? It’s such an old idea that it’s been tried countless times and in countless ways, and has failed and countless times in countless ways... So much so it has 100% failure rate

Albert Would be ashamed, trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results…

Socialism ~ is a dead end of old ideas, of shallow minded fools...

Don’t worry your head about protecting rich people. You’ll never be one

 

[jillian]

Believe it or not, but there are decent American citizens who have been dealt a bad hand in life and need a hand. Many of them are kids who are slaves to the whims of their materialistic, degenerate single moms who wouldn't be the way she is if not for corporate entertainment media brainwashing her into becoming a whore.

Yeah fuck them kids, right? Let them STARVE.

They starve anyway. If mom is a POS, she’s not changing anytime soon. She’s just going to repeat the same things over again. Sometimes kids survive, and become more responsible than their parents. It’s not the responsibility of society, or these bad rich successful people to care for someone else’s collateral damage. And kindness is weakness to many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s your opinion. Others want to live in a community that takes care of their sick, poor, elderly and children.

Pay your way. I take care of my family, and don’t make excuses. I don’t trash people who took risks and were successful. I don’t expect them to pay for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You understand that the top 1% are not paying their way, right?

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

Believe it or not, but there are decent American citizens who have been dealt a bad hand in life and need a hand. Many of them are kids who are slaves to the whims of their materialistic, degenerate single moms who wouldn't be the way she is if not for corporate entertainment media brainwashing her into becoming a whore.

Yeah fuck them kids, right? Let them STARVE.

They starve anyway. If mom is a POS, she’s not changing anytime soon. She’s just going to repeat the same things over again. Sometimes kids survive, and become more responsible than their parents. It’s not the responsibility of society, or these bad rich successful people to care for someone else’s collateral damage. And kindness is weakness to many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s your opinion. Others want to live in a community that takes care of their sick, poor, elderly and children.

I will never, ever understand how supposedly patriotic people can have such utter disdain for their fellow Americans that they'd rather let them starve than take a little extra from the coffers of big corporations that routinely sell out the American people for cheap labor and foreign manufacturing.

I pay my taxes, and have worked for everything I have. The people you’re complaining about, pay the majority of the taxes. I’m not one of those, but don’t expect them to pay for me. You have been lied to by liberals, who tell you everything will be free.


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[the other mike]

Lol
Anyone else getting sick of The failed philosophy of taking from the Successful/rich giving to the failed/poor? It’s such an old idea that it’s been tried countless times and in countless ways, and has failed and countless times in countless ways... So much so it has 100% failure rate

Albert Would be ashamed, trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results…

Socialism ~ is a dead end of old ideas, of shallow minded fools...

And now for something completely different.
A balanced civil discussion where both sides can peacefully share their views.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

Yeah fuck them kids, right? Let them STARVE.

They starve anyway. If mom is a POS, she’s not changing anytime soon. She’s just going to repeat the same things over again. Sometimes kids survive, and become more responsible than their parents. It’s not the responsibility of society, or these bad rich successful people to care for someone else’s collateral damage. And kindness is weakness to many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s your opinion. Others want to live in a community that takes care of their sick, poor, elderly and children.

I will never, ever understand how supposedly patriotic people can have such utter disdain for their fellow Americans that they'd rather let them starve than take a little extra from the coffers of big corporations that routinely sell out the American people for cheap labor and foreign manufacturing.

I think they are too locked into their own world and wanting government off their backs. I understand that sentiment. But I also dont have three summer homes and a private jet

Nor do I, and don’t expect I will. They have as many deductions as the law will allow. They still pay the majority of taxes. They just don’t feel it like we do. These problems are difficult. There is no quick fix. We have more options in the United States, than anywhere in this world. Look what others are doing to get here. The majority of them will work as many jobs as they can get, and do jobs that our citizens are too entitled to consider.


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[Butch_Coolidge]

Yeah fuck them kids, right? Let them STARVE.

They starve anyway. If mom is a POS, she’s not changing anytime soon. She’s just going to repeat the same things over again. Sometimes kids survive, and become more responsible than their parents. It’s not the responsibility of society, or these bad rich successful people to care for someone else’s collateral damage. And kindness is weakness to many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s your opinion. Others want to live in a community that takes care of their sick, poor, elderly and children.

Pay your way. I take care of my family, and don’t make excuses. I don’t trash people who took risks and were successful. I don’t expect them to pay for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You understand that the top 1% are not paying their way, right?

You still understand that they are 1%, and they pay the majority of taxes. You also understand about 20% of our legal welfare bums have never worked a day in their lives, and don’t exist on paper. But they manage to get whatever is available from the government.


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[task0778]

Lol
Anyone else getting sick of The failed philosophy of taking from the Successful/rich giving to the failed/poor? It’s such an old idea that it’s been tried countless times and in countless ways, and has failed and countless times in countless ways... So much so it has 100% failure rate

Albert Would be ashamed, trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results…

Socialism ~ is a dead end of old ideas, of shallow minded fools...

Agreed..while I believe in a robust social safety net..Socialism as a method of governing is just plain stupid.

you asked for new ideas--I'll invite the inevitable kicking..by throwing one out there:

A concerted effort to move to large employee-owned businesses...to wipe out the gulf between owner and worker..and eliminate the useless parasite called the 'shareholder'.
Such an organization would be more able to weather the storms of economic downturn by adjusting wages, instead of firing employees. With no dividends owed..there would be no exporting jobs in the name of 'fiduciary responsibility'. As an added benefit, one could mitigate the abuses of speculation--and the deleterious effects on the country.
Don't get me wrong, there will always be a need for a stock market..to raise large amounts of capital..and those that take the risk should reap the reward...I just think that if a large segment..say 40% of our large, 100+ employees, were owned by the employees, it might just save the Middle-class.

Now..let the kicking begin!!

Wondered if you realize that employees in an employee-owned business are in fact shareholders. Who receive dividends or the equivalent every year or whenever the agreement stipulates. You realize that it requires a lot of capital to start-up a business and keep it going long enough to survive, right? Or to expand an existing business, and for that you need investors cuz banks are going to front you the money without some assets. So where do you think the seed money comes from? You gotta pay it back, plus interest.

I got no problem with the idea, but I don't think it's the panacea that you think it is.

How Does an Employee-Owned Company Work?

Yeah..I know all this..but for simplicity's sake I omitted a lot in the post. Initial capitalization is always the big bugaboo. I do know most employee-owned start-ups defer dividends in favor of plowing value back into the company and servicing the inevitable debt that start-ups incur. The best models seem to be a group of people that have both the knowledge and enough capital assets to secure a loan..then if they survive the initial 5 or so years...they become self-sustaining.

Panacea? If so, it would be if the critical threshold of self-owned companies in the economy was reached. We are talking decades here...but I do believe that the idea is viable...I don't know that we will ever find out though...the scale is pretty large!

Weelll, frankly I don't think most businesses are started by a group of knowledgable people with enough capital to secure a loan, maybe in certain professions like doctors and lawyers. But manufacturing and retail and the like? I would think that requires quite a bit of capital and time to get the whole thing off the ground and become profitable. I think most employer-owned start-ups basically do the same thing, deferring dividends and payouts back into the company when they can. I am not sure the abuses of speculation are all that different either way, if you're going to get serious money to get a business up and running then you gotta payback serious ROI money to your investors, which usually requires rich people. Ever watch Shark Tank on TV? Those guys want a pretty big piece of the pie, but I suppose over time you could pay them off and become a true EOC.

Let's talk about economic downturns, adjusting wages, and firing employees. It obviously varies sector by sector, but with automation and global competition what it is, an EOC is going to have a hard time staying competitive if they can't keep the labor costs down. Not just the payroll but the bennies like healthcare and retirement packages, these days it ain't any easier for an EOC to stay in business than it is for a private employer-owned business or a corp on the stock market exchanges. So, the first 5 years is a big hurdle to cross over, but it ain't like you're on Easy street cuz if your EOC is doing well then you're going to get rivals in short order from across-town, across the country, or across the globe. So, I'm not sure an EOC can make it if they don't fire people or outsource if it makes sense.

Not against the idea mind you, maybe I'm just too jaded. But - the Green Bay Packers NFL football team is the only non-profit, community-owned major league professional sports team based in the US. I like the idea, dunno how they did it or how they run the business but I like the idea. Being a Detroit Lions fan though, I still wanna kick their asses when we play them.

 

[Rustic]

Lol
Anyone else getting sick of The failed philosophy of taking from the Successful/rich giving to the failed/poor? It’s such an old idea that it’s been tried countless times and in countless ways, and has failed and countless times in countless ways... So much so it has 100% failure rate

Albert Would be ashamed, trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results…

Socialism ~ is a dead end of old ideas, of shallow minded fools...

Don’t worry your head about protecting rich people. You’ll never be one

Lol
I don’t care how little or how much anyone else has, makes no difference to me. Bedwetter

 

[Rustic]

Yeah fuck them kids, right? Let them STARVE.

They starve anyway. If mom is a POS, she’s not changing anytime soon. She’s just going to repeat the same things over again. Sometimes kids survive, and become more responsible than their parents. It’s not the responsibility of society, or these bad rich successful people to care for someone else’s collateral damage. And kindness is weakness to many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s your opinion. Others want to live in a community that takes care of their sick, poor, elderly and children.

Pay your way. I take care of my family, and don’t make excuses. I don’t trash people who took risks and were successful. I don’t expect them to pay for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You understand that the top 1% are not paying their way, right?

Lol
Their finances are none of your fucking business, You silly little fucker

 

[Rustic]

Yeah fuck them kids, right? Let them STARVE.

They starve anyway. If mom is a POS, she’s not changing anytime soon. She’s just going to repeat the same things over again. Sometimes kids survive, and become more responsible than their parents. It’s not the responsibility of society, or these bad rich successful people to care for someone else’s collateral damage. And kindness is weakness to many.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s your opinion. Others want to live in a community that takes care of their sick, poor, elderly and children.

Pay your way. I take care of my family, and don’t make excuses. I don’t trash people who took risks and were successful. I don’t expect them to pay for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You understand that the top 1% are not paying their way, right?