New deal with Cuba

[nodoginnafight]

Lotta folks in south florida had everything they had stolen from them by Castro. Rubio is kissing their ass right now.

Someone had to.

Doesn't matter - we can't undo that and it's time to move on.

We can influence them a lot more with our tourism and cigar dollars than we can with a cold shoulder.

Yeah. Just like China.

Yup - who was it who put a muzzle on that North Korean idiot for us .... oh yeah - CHINA

 

[jillian]

Always glad to help a 6 year old, even if he's a derp.

LOL, nothing can say clearer that you have nothing than to repeat my own line back to me.

You haven't explained your side. What is to be gained by continuing this 50+ year embargo on Cuba? What will be the excuse when Castro is dead and gone? Why is it OK for the US to have normal diplomatic and trade relations with the likes of Vietnam and China, where we have a lot more grievances with war dead, but we must at all costs maintain an embargo on our tiny, pissant neighbor?

Since you put it so nice, I'll answer your question. I have to answer two ways. The first is the broad solution, the second is the narrow one.

1) As a libertarian, I don't think it's for the government to regulate what people or companies do outside the US. I don't think we should have such a thing as embargoes unless we are in a declared war.

2) Given our current system, on the narrow case of Cuba, I would not remove the embargo unless we go to a broader libertarian system. I still oppose most embargoes even if we don't change the system. However, we as a country so badly screwed the Cuban people multiple times. First we took them in our only war of true aggression, the Spanish American war. We let them be ruled by a dictator, then we let him fall for a Marx who was worse. Then Kennedy murdered their freedom fighters in the Bay of Pigs by leading them to believe they had air cover then not providing it. That then scared Castro into allowing the Russians in full throttle and taking us to the brink of nuclear war. So at this point I view it as a matter for the Cuban people, and the best representative of the voice of the Cuban people are the free Cubans in Miami who want the embargo to remain.

ya... business should be unobstructed but intimate relationships should be governed by the gubmint, right:?

That has nothing to do with anything I said.

it does when people pretend they're "libertarians"

it's ok to pretend though

Yet another vacuous post, I never see anything else from you.

OK, I'll play, give me some examples of my views that are not libertarian?

I anticipate another non-answer. Prove me wrong.

Your lack of comprehension does not make my post "vacuous". Did you graduate from high school? Your posts don't really sound like it.

Now please go drool on your keyboard some more.

 

[KissMy]

No, it's not. That's just your way of saying you can't back it up, so you're running away.

You're just being purposely obtuse, THAT was what I meant. Sorry, you'll have to turn in your crystal ball. Your mind reading skills are bogus.

Big government tit milking Kaz always lies & everyone knows it.

Another commie wishing Obama had the testosterone Putin has I see

Obama has penis envy for Putin, that's why you hate him so much.

Yes, people who don't want anything from government are milking government tits and those of you who want other people's money are fiercely independent and the true contributors to society. Liberals are so smart, I don't know how you come up with those incredible insights.

You were paid by big government contractor Booz Allen! The only commercial practice Booz has is informing companies how to lobby to get government money & avoid paying taxes.

"Government Contracting Is Booz Allen's Business"

"According to their 10-K filing, "we have strong and longstanding relationships with a diverse group of clients at all levels of the U.S. government. During fiscal 2013, we derived 99% of our revenue from services under more than 5,700 contracts and task orders. The single largest entity that we served in fiscal 2013 was the Army, which represented approximately 16% of our revenue in that period. We derived 91% of our revenue in the fiscal 2013 from engagements for which we acted as the prime contractor." Of that revenue, a further 23%, or $1.3 billion, came from U.S. Intelligence agencies."

"Booz Allen is Active in Washington"

"Booz Allen group, located near DC with headquarters in McLean, Virginia, is an active political player. Reports show that Booz Allen contributed $1.2 million in recent years to campaign finance, with $176,757 going to Barack Obama, $54,360 to Hillary Clinton, $51,951 to Mitt Romney, and $44,264 to John McCain. Fifty-five percent (55%) of their contributions went to Democratic candidates and causes, while 44% went to Republicans.

They employ over 70 individuals to sit on 54 federal advisory committees, including those that report to the Department of Defense, Department of Transportation, Federal Communications Commission, NASA, the Department of State, and the Department of Homeland Security."

 

[Lakhota]

New York Tabloids React To U.S.-Cuba Deal With Cigar-Centric Front Pages

President Obama is taking care of business!

 

[Lakhota]

The stock markets are LOVING President Obama's new Cuba policy!!!!!​

 

[mikegriffith1]

I applaud Obama for this move. I just don't agree with the arguments of the likes of Marco Rubio and John Bolton. I think this move was long overdue. This will be great for American business and will, I believe, lead to liberalization in Cuba over time.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes it is not like he shouldn't be working on how to fix Obamacare or anything.

I thought you guys were gunna repeal it?

Give them a little time......They've only tried a little more than 50 times. They're just little republicans after all.

Why does the left celebrate the Democrat's tyranny, lies, and corruption?

Why does the right keep doing the same dumb crap expecting a different outcome?

Example? No of course you don't have one.

The House has voted 54 times in four years on Obamacare. Here 8217 s the full list. - The Washington Post

 

[TooTall]

Long overdue

We can trade and visit VietNam and China but not Cuba

Then it should have been easy for Obama to get congress to go along with it right...go ahead explain it I say you can't.

your wingers blocked everything. so what on earth are you talking about?

Harry Reid blocked more than the Republicans ever dreamed of blocking, and the American people voted to change the Senate last month to solve that problem.

 

[kaz]

LOL, nothing can say clearer that you have nothing than to repeat my own line back to me.

Since you put it so nice, I'll answer your question. I have to answer two ways. The first is the broad solution, the second is the narrow one.

1) As a libertarian, I don't think it's for the government to regulate what people or companies do outside the US. I don't think we should have such a thing as embargoes unless we are in a declared war.

2) Given our current system, on the narrow case of Cuba, I would not remove the embargo unless we go to a broader libertarian system. I still oppose most embargoes even if we don't change the system. However, we as a country so badly screwed the Cuban people multiple times. First we took them in our only war of true aggression, the Spanish American war. We let them be ruled by a dictator, then we let him fall for a Marx who was worse. Then Kennedy murdered their freedom fighters in the Bay of Pigs by leading them to believe they had air cover then not providing it. That then scared Castro into allowing the Russians in full throttle and taking us to the brink of nuclear war. So at this point I view it as a matter for the Cuban people, and the best representative of the voice of the Cuban people are the free Cubans in Miami who want the embargo to remain.

ya... business should be unobstructed but intimate relationships should be governed by the gubmint, right:?

That has nothing to do with anything I said.

it does when people pretend they're "libertarians"

it's ok to pretend though

Yet another vacuous post, I never see anything else from you.

OK, I'll play, give me some examples of my views that are not libertarian?

I anticipate another non-answer. Prove me wrong.

Your lack of comprehension does not make my post "vacuous". Did you graduate from high school? Your posts don't really sound like it.

Now please go drool on your keyboard some more.

What about ignoring the question? Does that make you vacuous?

You: it does when people pretend they're "libertarians"

Me: OK, I'll play, give me some examples of my views that are not libertarian?

So, what about it?

I wrote an entire op on the subject, you can use that to fry me since you say you're not vacuous.

What is a small government libertarian US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[kaz]

No, it's not. That's just your way of saying you can't back it up, so you're running away.

You're just being purposely obtuse, THAT was what I meant. Sorry, you'll have to turn in your crystal ball. Your mind reading skills are bogus.

Big government tit milking Kaz always lies & everyone knows it.

Another commie wishing Obama had the testosterone Putin has I see

Obama has penis envy for Putin, that's why you hate him so much.

Yes, people who don't want anything from government are milking government tits and those of you who want other people's money are fiercely independent and the true contributors to society. Liberals are so smart, I don't know how you come up with those incredible insights.

You were paid by big government contractor Booz Allen! The only commercial practice Booz has is informing companies how to lobby to get government money & avoid paying taxes.

Booz Allen split in 2008. The commercial practice I worked for is now called Booz & Company. I did no government work for them, directly or indirectly. No one I knew there did.

What is now called Booz Allen & Hamilton used to be called their technology practice. 90% plus of their work was government related. We operated as two businesses, which is why splitting up meant almost nothing. People didn't even transfer other than rare exceptions between them they were so different.

Not sure what your point is, skippy, just filling in some information. I did do two government consulting gigs, neither as I said were at Booz Allen though.

1) Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) - They wanted to bring commercial rigor to government departments. They sucked at it though, they wanted to do it without holding anyone accountable for anything, which is why government fails all the time.

2) (D)ARPA - I did a web strategy for them. Techies are impressed by that. You can ask one why. Then I did a bunch of other work building on the web strategy. They also wanted commercial perspective, but they were a much better organization that OPIC and did a lot more worth it.

Those projects were maybe combined 6 months worth of work, the rest of my experience is 100% commercial.

 

[Borillar]

Time to start planning your Cuba vacation. It should be worth the trip just to see all the old cars.

Yeah you liberals can tour the Cuban prisons and mock the political prisoners the communist thugs threw in jail, enjoy. /sarcasm

Sure, and while on the island, conservatives can go visit Gitmo and mock the political prisoners the neocon thugs threw in jail, enjoy. /sarcasm

So terrorists intent on killing Americans are now "political prisoners"? That's a new low even for liberals.

How do you know they were terrorists? Waterboard them until they admit it? Been lots of them let go after being held for years - not guilty of anything. Of course now they have reason to hate the US, after being held and tortured for years.

 

[TooTall]

Long overdue

We can trade and visit VietNam and China but not Cuba

Then it should have been easy for Obama to get congress to go along with it right...go ahead explain it I say you can't.

Congress can't do jack shit....no surprise there

Thankfully, our President is showing leadership where Congress can't

they're going to love being vetoed for the next two years.

At least the country will know who the obstructionist is. For the last six years Harry Reid has been Obama's pocket veto. Now Obama will have to do it on his own. That will be his legacy!

 

[TooTall]

This will give progressive neo-coms , marxist professors, and occutards a place to feel at home in.

I'm supposing that our American leftists will be moving to Cuba so they can enjoy free healthcare. They're hippocrites if they don't move there immediately. We will lose the USMB members however. I don't think Fidel will allow Internet access outside Cuba.

I wonder who will be leaving the board?

Only 5% of the 11 million Cubans have internet access.

 

[TooTall]

Cuba is a worker's paradise with all the modern conveniences of the 1950's.

Looks like that will change

Who will sell them modern conveniences?

The Chinese and Russia.

 

[Lakhota]

Even Aqua Buddha Man likes it.

Rand Paul: Trade With Cuba 'Probably A Good Idea'

 

[TooTall]

The Chamber of Commerce backs the normalization of relations with Cuba, so does pro-business groups the National Foreign Trade Council and USA*Engage, along with the National Farmers Union.
Normalization of Relations will create more permanent jobs than the Keystone pipeline, in the exporting/importing sector, the agriculture sector and the tourism industry. Plus new markets for US products would generate job growth in manufacturing..

Yes, it could and Cuba can simply transport US products to such countries as Iran, N.Korea, and even Russia which have been banned to send to those hostile regimes, thereby undercutting sanctions.

Don't you think that your claim is kinda a stretch. Most exports would be agriculture and domestic living related. I'm pretty sure we won't be exporting weapons to Cuba.

I think you should check to see what sanctions are on Iran, N.Korea and Russia!

The Chamber of Commerce backs the normalization of relations with Cuba, so does pro-business groups the National Foreign Trade Council and USA*Engage, along with the National Farmers Union.
Normalization of Relations will create more permanent jobs than the Keystone pipeline, in the exporting/importing sector, the agriculture sector and the tourism industry. Plus new markets for US products would generate job growth in manufacturing..

A few people will make a lot of money. That is probably the root of everything. A few high money donors were able to get to the right people in the corrupt Obama Administration. I bet if someone was to follow the money it would lead to the answer of why Obama did this stupid thing.

Meanwhile American dollars will be used to fiance a very brutal regime. I thought you Liberals didn't like the idea of supporting brutal regimes? You sure as hell have complained about other administrations and other countries.

I really think that most people don't give a damn about normalizing relations with Cuba. The only reason the Libtards jumped on that bandwagon today is that Obama did it and they do love and support their Messiah.

Well, as a majority of Americans from all sides of the aisle favor normalizing relations with Cuba and have for quite awhile. Add the pro-business and agriculture organizations I listed in a previous post, that's a lot of people who favor improved relations with Cuba.
The Embargo didn't work, why do people want to keep on doing that hasn't worked?
Somebody is out of step with the real world here.
Oh and Flash, you are way too paranoid.

The embargo didn't have the desired affect as long as Castro was supported with the oil money from Venezuela. With the drop in oil prices, that aid has gone away. All Obama had to do is wait and see when the Cubans would throw out the ruling Castros. Instead, he bailed them out and took the place of Venezuela. Not a wise move IMO.

 

[KissMy]

The Chamber of Commerce backs the normalization of relations with Cuba, so does pro-business groups the National Foreign Trade Council and USA*Engage, along with the National Farmers Union.
Normalization of Relations will create more permanent jobs than the Keystone pipeline, in the exporting/importing sector, the agriculture sector and the tourism industry. Plus new markets for US products would generate job growth in manufacturing..

Yes, it could and Cuba can simply transport US products to such countries as Iran, N.Korea, and even Russia which have been banned to send to those hostile regimes, thereby undercutting sanctions.

Don't you think that your claim is kinda a stretch. Most exports would be agriculture and domestic living related. I'm pretty sure we won't be exporting weapons to Cuba.

I think you should check to see what sanctions are on Iran, N.Korea and Russia!

The Chamber of Commerce backs the normalization of relations with Cuba, so does pro-business groups the National Foreign Trade Council and USA*Engage, along with the National Farmers Union.
Normalization of Relations will create more permanent jobs than the Keystone pipeline, in the exporting/importing sector, the agriculture sector and the tourism industry. Plus new markets for US products would generate job growth in manufacturing..

A few people will make a lot of money. That is probably the root of everything. A few high money donors were able to get to the right people in the corrupt Obama Administration. I bet if someone was to follow the money it would lead to the answer of why Obama did this stupid thing.

Meanwhile American dollars will be used to fiance a very brutal regime. I thought you Liberals didn't like the idea of supporting brutal regimes? You sure as hell have complained about other administrations and other countries.

I really think that most people don't give a damn about normalizing relations with Cuba. The only reason the Libtards jumped on that bandwagon today is that Obama did it and they do love and support their Messiah.

Well, as a majority of Americans from all sides of the aisle favor normalizing relations with Cuba and have for quite awhile. Add the pro-business and agriculture organizations I listed in a previous post, that's a lot of people who favor improved relations with Cuba.
The Embargo didn't work, why do people want to keep on doing that hasn't worked?
Somebody is out of step with the real world here.
Oh and Flash, you are way too paranoid.

The embargo didn't have the desired affect as long as Castro was supported with the oil money from Venezuela. With the drop in oil prices, that aid has gone away. All Obama had to do is wait and see when the Cubans would throw out the ruling Castros. Instead, he bailed them out and took the place of Venezuela. Not a wise move IMO.

I was thinking the same at first, but there is no bailout, only normalizing political communications. This will take a long time, then negotiations can begin & that will take a lot more time. Castro will be under serious pressure by then. Obama may have had to move before the new congress shuts him down & to make sure the US gets Cuba before Putin goes more crazy & puts missiles back in there.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

A swap of prisoners and sweeping new policies kick start a new era of relations with Cuba. Considering the policies in force since 1961 have done little, it could lead to more normal relations with the soon-to-be post-Castro Cuba.

Cuba releases American Alan Gross in prisoner swap - CNN.com

Yep... Just as the idiots were getting a good re-lather over making terrorists uncomfortable... Their King; the Peasantpimp if the Union States... cuts a deal with the most notorious torturers in the Western Hemisphere.

And not 'makin' 'em stay up late' torture... No no... We're talkin' 220vac and a a set of jumper cables, 1/2 drill to the knees, cutting out tongue and testicles. Old School sadistic COMMUNIST torturers ... we're PAL nows.

 

[kiwiman127]

The Chamber of Commerce backs the normalization of relations with Cuba, so does pro-business groups the National Foreign Trade Council and USA*Engage, along with the National Farmers Union.
Normalization of Relations will create more permanent jobs than the Keystone pipeline, in the exporting/importing sector, the agriculture sector and the tourism industry. Plus new markets for US products would generate job growth in manufacturing..

Yes, it could and Cuba can simply transport US products to such countries as Iran, N.Korea, and even Russia which have been banned to send to those hostile regimes, thereby undercutting sanctions.

Don't you think that your claim is kinda a stretch. Most exports would be agriculture and domestic living related. I'm pretty sure we won't be exporting weapons to Cuba.

I think you should check to see what sanctions are on Iran, N.Korea and Russia!

The Chamber of Commerce backs the normalization of relations with Cuba, so does pro-business groups the National Foreign Trade Council and USA*Engage, along with the National Farmers Union.
Normalization of Relations will create more permanent jobs than the Keystone pipeline, in the exporting/importing sector, the agriculture sector and the tourism industry. Plus new markets for US products would generate job growth in manufacturing..

A few people will make a lot of money. That is probably the root of everything. A few high money donors were able to get to the right people in the corrupt Obama Administration. I bet if someone was to follow the money it would lead to the answer of why Obama did this stupid thing.

Meanwhile American dollars will be used to fiance a very brutal regime. I thought you Liberals didn't like the idea of supporting brutal regimes? You sure as hell have complained about other administrations and other countries.

I really think that most people don't give a damn about normalizing relations with Cuba. The only reason the Libtards jumped on that bandwagon today is that Obama did it and they do love and support their Messiah.

Well, as a majority of Americans from all sides of the aisle favor normalizing relations with Cuba and have for quite awhile. Add the pro-business and agriculture organizations I listed in a previous post, that's a lot of people who favor improved relations with Cuba.
The Embargo didn't work, why do people want to keep on doing that hasn't worked?
Somebody is out of step with the real world here.
Oh and Flash, you are way too paranoid.

The embargo didn't have the desired affect as long as Castro was supported with the oil money from Venezuela. With the drop in oil prices, that aid has gone away. All Obama had to do is wait and see when the Cubans would throw out the ruling Castros. Instead, he bailed them out and took the place of Venezuela. Not a wise move IMO.

Well, thats an interesting point.
But obviously Venezuela didn't supply that much aid. All one has to do is look at their infrastructure. They were at one time one of the most advanced nations in Latin America, but that was before the revolution. Today their infrastructure is pathetic, all of Cuba is in need of repair, they're a half century behind.
If the embargo would be lifted, it would be a hey day for American businesses. Several American business groups and agriculture groups, including the Chamber of Commerce and have been trying get a movement to get the US and Cuba relations normalized.
Moving forward is good for the Cuban people. Based on factual historical events of communist countries moving towards capitalistic economies and the aftereffect, it's a win-win.
Cuba is sitting on the doorstep of the greatest capitalistic society in the world.

 

[JoeB131]

Use your dictionary, you moron. I'm not here to educate you on basic terminology and how they differ. You can continue to call corporatism capitalism all you like, but they are not the same. Not even close.

So you are kind of admitting you really can't define a difference that means anything in a real term.

Thanks.