Need to bring back the draft

[CurveLight]

Nice to see that you still insist upon your feeble attempts to dis my service record. Keep trying, you simply can't do it. I know it hurts to see someone who is better than you are at almost everything you wished you were. But you know, all of us can't be the best. And me? I never claimed anything than what I am. Just a retired Signal Corps Sergeant who never claimed anything more than that. And you still can't stand it...

Almost makes me feel sorry for your meager existence. So keep attacking since that's what seems to makes you happy. But do tell us are you for or against a new draft? Since that is the theme of the thread.

Don't play the sympathy card again failed lifer. It's not dissing your service to point out you got the boot versus a voluntary retirement. It's called honesty. (That explains why it seems so foreign to you)

Still no comment on the record suicides. Yep. You care soooooooooo fucking much about our troops you turn a blind eye to that one.

Please tell us how you know that I "got the boot". I'm sure all of us are waiting in anticipation for your next lie. You are a proven liar and have no right to talk about honesty and this is simply another of your lies. So go ahead and tell us your lie.

I might comment on the suicide rate of todays military if I had a reason to, and had studied the subject. But since I haven't, I won't make a fool of myself by making a comment about something I do not know about. Unlike some people.

Oh and please tell us how much you care about the troops while you are spreading your lies. May as well add to the list.

You've already made a fool of yourself by commenting without researching. Want to falsely accuse me of lying again you fucking coward? Remember when you said the draft isn't needed because our military is doing "just fine?" So you just admitted you wont comment on the record high suicide rate because you haven't studied it. If you haven't studied those basics then what exactly was your comment that our military is doing just fine based on? Don't you get tired of me bitch slapping you so often?

You got forced out under Clinton's drawdown because you were stagnate dead weight by the lack of achievments in your career. You told on yourself when you said you partially retired because you refused to serve under a draft dodger. I thought "real" soldiers were supposed to respect the CIC? You had no problem lauding two war dodgers for the 8 years the Cheney admin was in power. Hell, you even cheered those dodgers as they sent our Troops to needlessly die. You have never had honor. That is why it is easy to expose the kool-aid pumping through your veins. But hey, in your dusty head just make all that disappear by calling me a liar. Im sure there is no connection between this behavior and why you are a failed lifer. Or maybe there is?

 

[Gadawg73]

Drafee units?

Somebody is bullshitting somebody here. Can't be sure who, but somebody is remembering something that never happened.

There were no draftee "units".

The Army and Marine Corps both drafted people during Viet Nam, and neither created draftee units.

Ok, I worded it completely wrong and you are completely right about ALL draftee units.
But you know my point and are running from it like a monkey on fire.
Enlisted men do not want to have cherry draftees in a combat zone and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that in the early 60s draftees were around 80K when my brother and his buddies enlisted and they were almost 400K in 1966 when my brother and his buddies were in the thick of it. Units were flooded with draftees from 65-68.
60% of deaths in Nam were age 21 and younger. Now tell me that a younger drafted soldier makes a better soldier and back it up. A volunteer force is older, better educated, more mature and better trained. Enlisted men acounted for 70% of deaths in Viet Nam. They were the ones CALLED for combat time and time and time again. Why? I assume you are smart enough to figure that one out.
No enlisted man wants a PREDOMINANTLY draftee unit or a unit that was a 'piecemeal" unit behind them if they had a choice. Do I have to explain what a piecemeal unit was?
I can assure no one is bull shitting as those are the words of my brother early after his return and often for the last 41 years. My mother almost had a nervous breakdown when he was there, he has the battle ribbons to show for it and two of his childhood buddies are buried down the street from here as they were killed in 1966.

The disparaging of fellow Americans is quite bizarre. Instead of soapboxing I will provide a link to a well known Unit from Vietnam that were 75% draftees.

Http://www.eagerarms.com/bondsbetweensoldiers.html

If sticking up for and repeating the professional combat experiences of the current military that opposes induction, my brother and his buddies are "soapboxing" then I plead guilty.
However, none of my stats are as you have no rebuttal to any of that.

 

[CurveLight]

Ok, I worded it completely wrong and you are completely right about ALL draftee units.
But you know my point and are running from it like a monkey on fire.
Enlisted men do not want to have cherry draftees in a combat zone and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that in the early 60s draftees were around 80K when my brother and his buddies enlisted and they were almost 400K in 1966 when my brother and his buddies were in the thick of it. Units were flooded with draftees from 65-68.
60% of deaths in Nam were age 21 and younger. Now tell me that a younger drafted soldier makes a better soldier and back it up. A volunteer force is older, better educated, more mature and better trained. Enlisted men acounted for 70% of deaths in Viet Nam. They were the ones CALLED for combat time and time and time again. Why? I assume you are smart enough to figure that one out.
No enlisted man wants a PREDOMINANTLY draftee unit or a unit that was a 'piecemeal" unit behind them if they had a choice. Do I have to explain what a piecemeal unit was?
I can assure no one is bull shitting as those are the words of my brother early after his return and often for the last 41 years. My mother almost had a nervous breakdown when he was there, he has the battle ribbons to show for it and two of his childhood buddies are buried down the street from here as they were killed in 1966.

The disparaging of fellow Americans is quite bizarre. Instead of soapboxing I will provide a link to a well known Unit from Vietnam that were 75% draftees.

Http://www.eagerarms.com/bondsbetweensoldiers.html

If sticking up for and repeating the professional combat experiences of the current military that opposes induction, my brother and his buddies are "soapboxing" then I plead guilty.
However, none of my stats are as you have no rebuttal to any of that.

I provided the link to prove your claims about draftees is bullshit. You didn't even provide any related data. Well, you pointed out the increase in the number of draftees. But isn't that an expected result of instituting a draft?

Draftees accounted for 30% of KIAs in Nam so that means the majority who died were volunteers. By your logic of numbers draftees had a higher survival rate than the volunteers.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Don't play the sympathy card again failed lifer. It's not dissing your service to point out you got the boot versus a voluntary retirement. It's called honesty. (That explains why it seems so foreign to you)

Still no comment on the record suicides. Yep. You care soooooooooo fucking much about our troops you turn a blind eye to that one.

Please tell us how you know that I "got the boot". I'm sure all of us are waiting in anticipation for your next lie. You are a proven liar and have no right to talk about honesty and this is simply another of your lies. So go ahead and tell us your lie.

I might comment on the suicide rate of todays military if I had a reason to, and had studied the subject. But since I haven't, I won't make a fool of myself by making a comment about something I do not know about. Unlike some people.

Oh and please tell us how much you care about the troops while you are spreading your lies. May as well add to the list.

You've already made a fool of yourself by commenting without researching. Want to falsely accuse me of lying again you fucking coward? Remember when you said the draft isn't needed because our military is doing "just fine?" So you just admitted you wont comment on the record high suicide rate because you haven't studied it. If you haven't studied those basics then what exactly was your comment that our military is doing just fine based on? Don't you get tired of me bitch slapping you so often?

You got forced out under Clinton's drawdown because you were stagnate dead weight by the lack of achievments in your career. You told on yourself when you said you partially retired because you refused to serve under a draft dodger. I thought "real" soldiers were supposed to respect the CIC? You had no problem lauding two war dodgers for the 8 years the Cheney admin was in power. Hell, you even cheered those dodgers as they sent our Troops to needlessly die. You have never had honor. That is why it is easy to expose the kool-aid pumping through your veins. But hey, in your dusty head just make all that disappear by calling me a liar. Im sure there is no connection between this behavior and why you are a failed lifer. Or maybe there is?

And again bentdick lies.

Yes you see, it was my decision to retire after 22 years of active service.
But this isn't about Bush or Cheney, this is about you, curvelight making a personal attack on me and my service. And this is about the lies that you keep attempting to spread about me. So you keep trying to misdirect and keep lying about me all you want.
You have the gall to come on here and make these feeble attacks against my service and dare to talk about honor.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. You are a proven liar and you do nothing here but add to that list of lies. Oh and I don't call you a liar loosely. If you would like I can direct everyone straight to where I proved you flat out lied about me. Besides on this thread that is. Is that what you want you little liar? Maybe We can start a thread about curvelights lies? But then, who would give a shit?
Any thread about a worthless piece of shit like you is a waste of bandwidth. In fact, even this one post is no longer worth my time.

You are good for some lite entertainment though. So don't feel too badly.

 

[Gadawg73]

The disparaging of fellow Americans is quite bizarre. Instead of soapboxing I will provide a link to a well known Unit from Vietnam that were 75% draftees.

Http://www.eagerarms.com/bondsbetweensoldiers.html

If sticking up for and repeating the professional combat experiences of the current military that opposes induction, my brother and his buddies are "soapboxing" then I plead guilty.
However, none of my stats are as you have no rebuttal to any of that.

I provided the link to prove your claims about draftees is bullshit. You didn't even provide any related data. Well, you pointed out the increase in the number of draftees. But isn't that an expected result of instituting a draft?

Draftees accounted for 30% of KIAs in Nam so that means the majority who died were volunteers. By your logic of numbers draftees had a higher survival rate than the volunteers.

That is right because they did more combat time and longer stints than the 13 months a draftee did.
Your link proves none of my points wrong. I never said draftees were bad folks. Talk about BS! War is no Little League baseball game where we speak well of all the kids and put a happy face on it. If you do not know that draftees are not as well trained as an enlisted man with EXPERIENCE in the field then you are ill equipped to continue in this "debate".
You have watched too many Platoon re-runs. Great movie but factually incorrect.

 

[CurveLight]

Please tell us how you know that I "got the boot". I'm sure all of us are waiting in anticipation for your next lie. You are a proven liar and have no right to talk about honesty and this is simply another of your lies. So go ahead and tell us your lie.

I might comment on the suicide rate of todays military if I had a reason to, and had studied the subject. But since I haven't, I won't make a fool of myself by making a comment about something I do not know about. Unlike some people.

Oh and please tell us how much you care about the troops while you are spreading your lies. May as well add to the list.

You've already made a fool of yourself by commenting without researching. Want to falsely accuse me of lying again you fucking coward? Remember when you said the draft isn't needed because our military is doing "just fine?" So you just admitted you wont comment on the record high suicide rate because you haven't studied it. If you haven't studied those basics then what exactly was your comment that our military is doing just fine based on? Don't you get tired of me bitch slapping you so often?

You got forced out under Clinton's drawdown because you were stagnate dead weight by the lack of achievments in your career. You told on yourself when you said you partially retired because you refused to serve under a draft dodger. I thought "real" soldiers were supposed to respect the CIC? You had no problem lauding two war dodgers for the 8 years the Cheney admin was in power. Hell, you even cheered those dodgers as they sent our Troops to needlessly die. You have never had honor. That is why it is easy to expose the kool-aid pumping through your veins. But hey, in your dusty head just make all that disappear by calling me a liar. Im sure there is no connection between this behavior and why you are a failed lifer. Or maybe there is?

And again bentdick lies.

Yes you see, it was my decision to retire after 22 years of active service.
But this isn't about Bush or Cheney, this is about you, curvelight making a personal attack on me and my service. And this is about the lies that you keep attempting to spread about me. So you keep trying to misdirect and keep lying about me all you want.
You have the gall to come on here and make these feeble attacks against my service and dare to talk about honor.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. You are a proven liar and you do nothing here but add to that list of lies. Oh and I don't call you a liar loosely. If you would like I can direct everyone straight to where I proved you flat out lied about me. Besides on this thread that is. Is that what you want you little liar? Maybe We can start a thread about curvelights lies? But then, who would give a shit?
Any thread about a worthless piece of shit like you is a waste of bandwidth. In fact, even this one post is no longer worth my time.

You are good for some lite entertainment though. So don't feel too badly.

I lied? You'll probably throw your computer on the floor after I embarrass you again.

"As far as Clintoin there you are half right I decided
to retire when Clinton took office . It was a moral decision on my part . I refused to
serve under a draft dodger any longer than I had to . It took me 9 months to get
out . For a while it looked like my request would be disproved ."
Http://www.usmessageboard.com/1732985-post304.html

I told you before. Don't fuck with me. Now you know why. Again.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You've already made a fool of yourself by commenting without researching. Want to falsely accuse me of lying again you fucking coward? Remember when you said the draft isn't needed because our military is doing "just fine?" So you just admitted you wont comment on the record high suicide rate because you haven't studied it. If you haven't studied those basics then what exactly was your comment that our military is doing just fine based on? Don't you get tired of me bitch slapping you so often?

You got forced out under Clinton's drawdown because you were stagnate dead weight by the lack of achievments in your career. You told on yourself when you said you partially retired because you refused to serve under a draft dodger. I thought "real" soldiers were supposed to respect the CIC? You had no problem lauding two war dodgers for the 8 years the Cheney admin was in power. Hell, you even cheered those dodgers as they sent our Troops to needlessly die. You have never had honor. That is why it is easy to expose the kool-aid pumping through your veins. But hey, in your dusty head just make all that disappear by calling me a liar. Im sure there is no connection between this behavior and why you are a failed lifer. Or maybe there is?

And again bentdick lies.

Yes you see, it was my decision to retire after 22 years of active service.
But this isn't about Bush or Cheney, this is about you, curvelight making a personal attack on me and my service. And this is about the lies that you keep attempting to spread about me. So you keep trying to misdirect and keep lying about me all you want.
You have the gall to come on here and make these feeble attacks against my service and dare to talk about honor.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. You are a proven liar and you do nothing here but add to that list of lies. Oh and I don't call you a liar loosely. If you would like I can direct everyone straight to where I proved you flat out lied about me. Besides on this thread that is. Is that what you want you little liar? Maybe We can start a thread about curvelights lies? But then, who would give a shit?
Any thread about a worthless piece of shit like you is a waste of bandwidth. In fact, even this one post is no longer worth my time.

You are good for some lite entertainment though. So don't feel too badly.

I lied? You'll probably throw your computer on the floor after I embarrass you again.

"As far as Clintoin there you are half right I decided
to retire when Clinton took office . It was a moral decision on my part . I refused to
serve under a draft dodger any longer than I had to . It took me 9 months to get
out . For a while it looked like my request would be disproved ."
Http://www.usmessageboard.com/1732985-post304.html

I told you before. Don't fuck with me. Now you know why. Again.

Um, yes you lied. And there is nothing in that post that proves anything except that you have been telling the same lie for a very long time. And If I ever decide you are worth Fucking with, you will be crying to Gunny for relief. Now go away liar. you simply aren't worth it. Mr "i made E4 in less than 3 years"...LOL We all did dumb ass.

 

[CurveLight]

If sticking up for and repeating the professional combat experiences of the current military that opposes induction, my brother and his buddies are "soapboxing" then I plead guilty.
However, none of my stats are as you have no rebuttal to any of that.

I provided the link to prove your claims about draftees is bullshit. You didn't even provide any related data. Well, you pointed out the increase in the number of draftees. But isn't that an expected result of instituting a draft?

Draftees accounted for 30% of KIAs in Nam so that means the majority who died were volunteers. By your logic of numbers draftees had a higher survival rate than the volunteers.

That is right because they did more combat time and longer stints than the 13 months a draftee did.
Your link proves none of my points wrong. I never said draftees were bad folks. Talk about BS! War is no Little League baseball game where we speak well of all the kids and put a happy face on it. If you do not know that draftees are not as well trained as an enlisted man with EXPERIENCE in the field then you are ill equipped to continue in this "debate".
You have watched too many Platoon re-runs. Great movie but factually incorrect.

My link proves your broadbrushing about draftees is bullshit. Much like your dismissal of the stats that undermine your position.

 

[SFC Ollie]

visitors found this page by searching for these keywords:
Curvelight lies
,
armed forces draft board
,
pro bring the military draft back 2010
,
draft
,
military builds character
,
armed forces draft
,
political opinions on bringing back the draft

lol

 

[Gadawg73]

I provided the link to prove your claims about draftees is bullshit. You didn't even provide any related data. Well, you pointed out the increase in the number of draftees. But isn't that an expected result of instituting a draft?

Draftees accounted for 30% of KIAs in Nam so that means the majority who died were volunteers. By your logic of numbers draftees had a higher survival rate than the volunteers.

That is right because they did more combat time and longer stints than the 13 months a draftee did.
Your link proves none of my points wrong. I never said draftees were bad folks. Talk about BS! War is no Little League baseball game where we speak well of all the kids and put a happy face on it. If you do not know that draftees are not as well trained as an enlisted man with EXPERIENCE in the field then you are ill equipped to continue in this "debate".
You have watched too many Platoon re-runs. Great movie but factually incorrect.

My link proves your broadbrushing about draftees is bullshit. Much like your dismissal of the stats that undermine your position.

I am not broadbushing draftees. I am repeating what every Nam vet has told me. I was drafted in 1972 and never called. I would have been less experienced than an enlisted man. That is a fact that I would not have been defensive about.
The stats are that enlisted men are better trained and more experienced because they are in longer than draftees.
That is the argument here. The argument has been and always will be if a volunteer military is better trained and a better quality military than a draftee military. You can twist and distort and pick and nip all you want but that is the argument.
The military and the Pentagon state with no opposition anywhere within they do NOT want a draft.
And the reason why is NOT that a draftee is as good a soldier as an enlisted man. He can't be and it is not his fault. He is an in and out soldier.

 

[Mr Natural]

That is right because they did more combat time and longer stints than the 13 months a draftee did.
Your link proves none of my points wrong. I never said draftees were bad folks. Talk about BS! War is no Little League baseball game where we speak well of all the kids and put a happy face on it. If you do not know that draftees are not as well trained as an enlisted man with EXPERIENCE in the field then you are ill equipped to continue in this "debate".
You have watched too many Platoon re-runs. Great movie but factually incorrect.

My link proves your broadbrushing about draftees is bullshit. Much like your dismissal of the stats that undermine your position.

I am not broadbushing draftees. I am repeating what every Nam vet has told me. I was drafted in 1972 and never called. I would have been less experienced than an enlisted man. That is a fact that I would not have been defensive about.
The stats are that enlisted men are better trained and more experienced because they are in longer than draftees.
That is the argument here. The argument has been and always will be if a volunteer military is better trained and a better quality military than a draftee military. You can twist and distort and pick and nip all you want but that is the argument.
The military and the Pentagon state with no opposition anywhere within they do NOT want a draft.
And the reason why is NOT that a draftee is as good a soldier as an enlisted man. He can't be and it is not his fault. He is an in and out soldier.

Draftees are enlisted.

 

[SFC Ollie]

My link proves your broadbrushing about draftees is bullshit. Much like your dismissal of the stats that undermine your position.

I am not broadbushing draftees. I am repeating what every Nam vet has told me. I was drafted in 1972 and never called. I would have been less experienced than an enlisted man. That is a fact that I would not have been defensive about.
The stats are that enlisted men are better trained and more experienced because they are in longer than draftees.
That is the argument here. The argument has been and always will be if a volunteer military is better trained and a better quality military than a draftee military. You can twist and distort and pick and nip all you want but that is the argument.
The military and the Pentagon state with no opposition anywhere within they do NOT want a draft.
And the reason why is NOT that a draftee is as good a soldier as an enlisted man. He can't be and it is not his fault. He is an in and out soldier.

Draftees are enlisted.

I think he means volunteers.

 

[Mr Natural]

I am not broadbushing draftees. I am repeating what every Nam vet has told me. I was drafted in 1972 and never called. I would have been less experienced than an enlisted man. That is a fact that I would not have been defensive about.
The stats are that enlisted men are better trained and more experienced because they are in longer than draftees.
That is the argument here. The argument has been and always will be if a volunteer military is better trained and a better quality military than a draftee military. You can twist and distort and pick and nip all you want but that is the argument.
The military and the Pentagon state with no opposition anywhere within they do NOT want a draft.
And the reason why is NOT that a draftee is as good a soldier as an enlisted man. He can't be and it is not his fault. He is an in and out soldier.

Draftees are enlisted.

I think he means volunteers.

Probably.

(I hope.)

 

[Gadawg73]

My link proves your broadbrushing about draftees is bullshit. Much like your dismissal of the stats that undermine your position.

I am not broadbushing draftees. I am repeating what every Nam vet has told me. I was drafted in 1972 and never called. I would have been less experienced than an enlisted man. That is a fact that I would not have been defensive about.
The stats are that enlisted men are better trained and more experienced because they are in longer than draftees.
That is the argument here. The argument has been and always will be if a volunteer military is better trained and a better quality military than a draftee military. You can twist and distort and pick and nip all you want but that is the argument.
The military and the Pentagon state with no opposition anywhere within they do NOT want a draft.
And the reason why is NOT that a draftee is as good a soldier as an enlisted man. He can't be and it is not his fault. He is an in and out soldier.

Draftees are enlisted.

Draftees are drafted. Enlisted men enlist as volunteers.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I am not broadbushing draftees. I am repeating what every Nam vet has told me. I was drafted in 1972 and never called. I would have been less experienced than an enlisted man. That is a fact that I would not have been defensive about.
The stats are that enlisted men are better trained and more experienced because they are in longer than draftees.
That is the argument here. The argument has been and always will be if a volunteer military is better trained and a better quality military than a draftee military. You can twist and distort and pick and nip all you want but that is the argument.
The military and the Pentagon state with no opposition anywhere within they do NOT want a draft.
And the reason why is NOT that a draftee is as good a soldier as an enlisted man. He can't be and it is not his fault. He is an in and out soldier.

Draftees are enlisted.

Draftees are drafted. Enlisted men enlist as volunteers.

that would be what I thought you meant. However a draftee went through the same training as a volunteer. We had draftees in my Basic training company, and I was a volunteer. There were also draftees in my AIT company. So the initial training was the same, and many went straight from training to Nam. Both draftees and volunteers.

 

[Gadawg73]

Draftees are enlisted.

Draftees are drafted. Enlisted men enlist as volunteers.

that would be what I thought you meant. However a draftee went through the same training as a volunteer. We had draftees in my Basic training company, and I was a volunteer. There were also draftees in my AIT company. So the initial training was the same, and many went straight from training to Nam. Both draftees and volunteers.

Most of my friends were drafted and many served in Nam. I mean no disrespect to anyone, they know it and none of them did more than 13 months. They did their best.
All I am saying is that a volunteer that wants to be there becomes a better soldier the overwhelming majority of the time. Continuos turnover costs a SHIT LOAD of $$$ with draftees and what you get is never as good as a volunteer.

 

[Mr Natural]

I am not broadbushing draftees. I am repeating what every Nam vet has told me. I was drafted in 1972 and never called. I would have been less experienced than an enlisted man. That is a fact that I would not have been defensive about.
The stats are that enlisted men are better trained and more experienced because they are in longer than draftees.
That is the argument here. The argument has been and always will be if a volunteer military is better trained and a better quality military than a draftee military. You can twist and distort and pick and nip all you want but that is the argument.
The military and the Pentagon state with no opposition anywhere within they do NOT want a draft.
And the reason why is NOT that a draftee is as good a soldier as an enlisted man. He can't be and it is not his fault. He is an in and out soldier.

Draftees are enlisted.

Draftees are drafted. Enlisted men enlist as volunteers.

A draftee still goes in as an E-1. Just like someome who joins voluntarily.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Draftees are drafted. Enlisted men enlist as volunteers.

that would be what I thought you meant. However a draftee went through the same training as a volunteer. We had draftees in my Basic training company, and I was a volunteer. There were also draftees in my AIT company. So the initial training was the same, and many went straight from training to Nam. Both draftees and volunteers.

Most of my friends were drafted and many served in Nam. I mean no disrespect to anyone, they know it and none of them did more than 13 months. They did their best.
All I am saying is that a volunteer that wants to be there becomes a better soldier the overwhelming majority of the time. Continuos turnover costs a SHIT LOAD of $$$ with draftees and what you get is never as good as a volunteer.

There is no doubt that the volunteer Army is a more professional Army. And now that we know this we do not want to go back to the draft. Let's hope that Americas youth will continue to support her military as they always seem to have came through in the past.

(and because I said this Bentdick will come back in after when he can sneak on the computer again and disagree with it.)

 

[Sunni Man]

I was a Nam era draftee.

None of us wanted to be there.

And none of us want die there for such a lost cause.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I was a Nam era draftee.

None of us wanted to be there.

And none of us want die there for such a lost cause.

None of the volunteers wanted to be there or die there either.