Need Plumbing Advice

[Ringel05]

This is not a question for the handyman plumber (like myself, unless you know the answer).

My hot water pressure drops a few seconds after I turn the hot water on in every tap in the house.
Sediment issues? Any ideas?

 

[Blagger]

My advice would be to approach a registered professional with your query; not jeopardize your property by seeking help from anonymous sources with unknown credibility or experience.

Carpentry, decorating and homewares are one thing, but plumbing, electrical and structual are a completely different thing altogether, and come with potentially irreparable consequences.

That said, I was hoping this would be a toilet focused thread.

 

[Samson]

This is not a question for the handyman plumber (like myself, unless you know the answer).

My hot water pressure drops a few seconds after I turn the hot water on in every tap in the house.
Sediment issues? Any ideas?

Don't turn the hot water on in every tap in the house.

 

[Ringel05]

My advice would be to approach a registered professional with your query; not jeopardize your property by seeking help from anonymous sources with unknown credibility or experience.

Carpentry, decorating and homewares are one thing, but plumbing, electrical and structual are a completely different thing altogether, and come with potentially irreparable consequences.

That said, I was hoping this would be a toilet focused thread.

Number one, I know what I'm doing when it comes to home repair, I used to build em, (houses that is), how ever this is a new issue I have never run into before.
Number two, there are a couple of guys on this board that are professional plumbers and that's who I'm really directing my question to so no, they're not really all that anonymous and I've read their responses in the past, they know their shit.
What I'm looking for is a potential inexpensive fix before I have to change out the hot water heater or dismantle and replace half the plumbing, all of which I am fully capable of doing myself competently.

 

[Blagger]

My advice would be to approach a registered professional with your query; not jeopardize your property by seeking help from anonymous sources with unknown credibility or experience.

Carpentry, decorating and homewares are one thing, but plumbing, electrical and structual are a completely different thing altogether, and come with potentially irreparable consequences.

That said, I was hoping this would be a toilet focused thread.

Number one, I know what I'm doing when it comes to home repair, I used to build em, (houses that is), how ever this is a new issue I have never run into before.
Number two, there are a couple of guys on this board that are professional plumbers and that's who I'm really directing my question to so no, they're not really all that anonymous and I've read their responses in the past, they know their shit.
What I'm looking for is a potential inexpensive fix before I have to change out the hot water heater or dismantle and replace half the plumbing, all of which I am fully capable of doing myself competently.

After re-reading my response I concede that I came across as rather patronising, it's just that I've seen this kind of scenario before. Someone comes online seeking advice to avoid expensive maintainance, and they recieve (however well intentioned) shortcuts that only lead to more expense, having to rectify any damage caused by 'advice' from an anonymous source.

I'm a structual and demolitions engineer and I've lost count of how many times that I've dissuaded friends and family from making or attempting structual altercations themselves after recieving unfounded advice found on the internet.

Good luck in finding the solution.

 

[uscitizen]

Iron pipe or plastic of some type?
How old is the WH?

I would say the WH is plugged at a quick guess.
If iron pipe though could be a rust plugging issue.
Does water come out of the WH drain when you open it? And at a continued flow?
if so the problem is in the outlet of the WH or the associated plumbing.

I would shut off the gas or electric to the WH before testing/draining to avoid explosions, death that kind of undesireable events.

Also be sure the WH is completely filled before restoring the power/heat source.

 

[PixieStix]

Water heater manufacturers recommend flushing sediment from your storage type water heater periodically.


I do it once a year. Hard water sediment is a problem for some areas of the country

 

[Jos]

Try This Let me google that for you

 

[Synthaholic]

Try This Let me google that for you

There are some very good plumbing forums online, Ringel.

 

[Blagger]

Try This Let me google that for you

Ha Ha!!

Well, that took me by surprise, Jos. Much obliged.

 

[Ringel05]

Iron pipe or plastic of some type?
How old is the WH?

I would say the WH is plugged at a quick guess.
If iron pipe though could be a rust plugging issue.
Does water come out of the WH drain when you open it? And at a continued flow?
if so the problem is in the outlet of the WH or the associated plumbing.

I would shut off the gas or electric to the WH before testing/draining to avoid explosions, death that kind of undesireable events.

Also be sure the WH is completely filled before restoring the power/heat source.

Copper, electric don't know how old, we've been here 5 years. I guess I'll have to flush the WH tomorrow, hopefully that will fix the problem. I'm wondering if I can back flush from the washing machine hot water feed to clear any possible blockage at the feed side of the valves.... Older plumbing system, house built in 1972, don't imagine there will be a back flow preventer in the older system.
This might be a good time to replace the old gate valves with ball valves but will have to buy a new "torch", the old one went bad last year.
I've also been considering replacing the WH with a tankless system.

 

[Intense]

Iron pipe or plastic of some type?
How old is the WH?

I would say the WH is plugged at a quick guess.
If iron pipe though could be a rust plugging issue.
Does water come out of the WH drain when you open it? And at a continued flow?
if so the problem is in the outlet of the WH or the associated plumbing.

I would shut off the gas or electric to the WH before testing/draining to avoid explosions, death that kind of undesireable events.

Also be sure the WH is completely filled before restoring the power/heat source.

Copper, electric don't know how old, we've been here 5 years. I guess I'll have to flush the WH tomorrow, hopefully that will fix the problem. I'm wondering if I can back flush from the washing machine hot water feed to clear any possible blockage at the feed side of the valves.... Older plumbing system, house built in 1972, don't imagine there will be a back flow preventer in the older system.
This might be a good time to replace the old gate valves with ball valves but will have to buy a new "torch", the old one went bad last year.
I've also been considering replacing the WH with a tankless system.

Just turn it off, Turn the water lines off on both sides so you get minimal air in the lines, and drain it. turn on the input line to flush it. If the sediment is real bad or the tiniest leak develops, replace it. Check the screen on the washing machine fill hose, if there is still low pressure there, same, same with Dishwasher. If your shower is still weak, get a plumber.

 

[American Horse]

Iron pipe or plastic of some type?
How old is the WH?

I would say the WH is plugged at a quick guess.
If iron pipe though could be a rust plugging issue.
Does water come out of the WH drain when you open it? And at a continued flow?
if so the problem is in the outlet of the WH or the associated plumbing.

I would shut off the gas or electric to the WH before testing/draining to avoid explosions, death that kind of undesireable events.

Also be sure the WH is completely filled before restoring the power/heat source.

Copper, electric don't know how old, we've been here 5 years. I guess I'll have to flush the WH tomorrow, hopefully that will fix the problem. I'm wondering if I can back flush from the washing machine hot water feed to clear any possible blockage at the feed side of the valves.... Older plumbing system, house built in 1972, don't imagine there will be a back flow preventer in the older system.
This might be a good time to replace the old gate valves with ball valves but will have to buy a new "torch", the old one went bad last year.
I've also been considering replacing the WH with a tankless system.

Just turn it off, Turn the water lines off on both sides so you get minimal air in the lines, and drain it. turn on the input line to flush it. If the sediment is real bad or the tiniest leak develops, replace it. Check the screen on the washing machine fill hose, if there is still low pressure there, same, same with Dishwasher. If your shower is still weak, get a plumber.

You don't need a torch; why don't you just use the new "Sharkbite" connectors, and take the opportunity to put in some cpvc water lines while you're at it?

You say all your faucets lose pressure after the water is on for a second; the pressure just peters out. You may only have half inch lines everywhere, and the pressure is low in the main that supplies the neighborhood or development. If you have air chambers installed in your water lines (usually there is one above the water heater) to prevent water pipe "hammering" those chambers may give you an initial surge, and then when the compressed air has first provided that surge, drop down to the ambient pressure level in the line, which would be the case if the pressure is low entering the house.

Your water company will check water pressure at the meter for free, and maybe you can get them to check it at one of your outside faucets while they're at it.

All your screens in your aerators may have a layer of lime built up in them; I imagine you have checked them already, but if not you should. once the water heater is drained it should feel "light" when you give it a little tilt or push at the top. If it's not light when empty it may be full of lime.

The water heater and the hot water lines are only half of the system. If the the problem of pressure dropping off is not exclusive to the hot side, how could it be a problem at the water heater specifically?

I would look really hard at the costs of a tankless water heater, and ask people at a supply house who have the same opportunity of selling you either a standard tank model or a tankless, so as to eliminate a bias. I did an analysis for a customer who asked for it and his costs including maintenance were going to be much higher over time with the tankless. The tankless seems to only be advantageous in gaining the space of the tank water heater for some other use.

 

[syrenn]

Just my two cents.

Get a new water heater from a big box (home depot/ lewos) with a warentee. Before the warentee is up take it back and tell them it leaks.

How are you plumed? For pressure i like a 3/4 from the street down to 1/2 to the taps.

 

[Synthaholic]

Ringel, you should buy one of these from Lowes:

I got back $1,200 in rebates from my city, plus $420 in Federal Tax Credits. Plus, $75 for recycling my old water heater. The unit itself is currently $1,399 through Monday, 29th (today), due to a 12% off sale.

I've had mine for 6 months and I have rarely needed to engage the electric heating elements. I just use the heap pump setting and it barely uses any electricity. And the added bonus is that it blows air conditioned air when the heat pump is on, helping to cool the laundry room and part of the adjoining room.

I highly recommend it, if you need a new heater.

 

[Ernie S.]

It's more likely sediment in a valve either jus before or just after the water heater. Sediment in the heater itself falls pretty much harmlessly to the bottom of the tank and just sets there til drained or disturbed.The first thing I'd try is closing and then opening the cold supply to the water heater and any valves after it.

 

[Ringel05]

Copper, electric don't know how old, we've been here 5 years. I guess I'll have to flush the WH tomorrow, hopefully that will fix the problem. I'm wondering if I can back flush from the washing machine hot water feed to clear any possible blockage at the feed side of the valves.... Older plumbing system, house built in 1972, don't imagine there will be a back flow preventer in the older system.
This might be a good time to replace the old gate valves with ball valves but will have to buy a new "torch", the old one went bad last year.
I've also been considering replacing the WH with a tankless system.

Just turn it off, Turn the water lines off on both sides so you get minimal air in the lines, and drain it. turn on the input line to flush it. If the sediment is real bad or the tiniest leak develops, replace it. Check the screen on the washing machine fill hose, if there is still low pressure there, same, same with Dishwasher. If your shower is still weak, get a plumber.

You don't need a torch; why don't you just use the new "Sharkbite" connectors, and take the opportunity to put in some cpvc water lines while you're at it?

You say all your faucets lose pressure after the water is on for a second; the pressure just peters out. You may only have half inch lines everywhere, and the pressure is low in the main that supplies the neighborhood or development. If you have air chambers installed in your water lines (usually there is one above the water heater) to prevent water pipe "hammering" those chambers may give you an initial surge, and then when the compressed air has first provided that surge, drop down to the ambient pressure level in the line, which would be the case if the pressure is low entering the house.

Your water company will check water pressure at the meter for free, and maybe you can get them to check it at one of your outside faucets while they're at it.

All your screens in your aerators may have a layer of lime built up in them; I imagine you have checked them already, but if not you should. once the water heater is drained it should feel "light" when you give it a little tilt or push at the top. If it's not light when empty it may be full of lime.

The water heater and the hot water lines are only half of the system. If the the problem of pressure dropping off is not exclusive to the hot side, how could it be a problem at the water heater specifically?

I would look really hard at the costs of a tankless water heater, and ask people at a supply house who have the same opportunity of selling you either a standard tank model or a tankless, so as to eliminate a bias. I did an analysis for a customer who asked for it and his costs including maintenance were going to be much higher over time with the tankless. The tankless seems to only be advantageous in gaining the space of the tank water heater for some other use.

The pressure drop off is on the hot side only. Cold side is unaffected.
I did some research this morning on the tankless and discovered a few consumer issues including the cost. I'm definitely not going that route.

 

[Ernie S.]

Tankless could be the way to go. You don't need to re-mortgage the hose to buy one either. See link

The hardest part of installing one is the electrical connection. You will most likely need to run heavy gauge wire and a bigger circuit breaker. Another consideration is incoming water temperature, especially in winter. A typical 60 amp tankless will heat water 60 degrees over incoming temperature at 2 gallons/minute flow.

Back flushing might work, but it requires disconnecting some pipes. Another thing to try is to close the supply valve and drain the tank. Opening the pressure relief valve will allow the tank to drain, baring the boiler drain plugging up with crap. When the tank is near empty, hook a Shop-Vac to the drain fitting, close the relief valve and drop the hot supply line at a convenient sink or your washing machine and let it hang in a bucket of hot water. Turn on the Shop-Vac until you've sucked the water out of the bucket.

I've used this method to undo what one of my service techs did when he hooked up a granulated carbon filter backward and filled up a customer's plumbing with about 2 cubic feet of rice grain sized carbon granules.

 

[Ringel05]

Tankless could be the way to go. You don't need to re-mortgage the hose to buy one either. See link

The hardest part of installing one is the electrical connection. You will most likely need to run heavy gauge wire and a bigger circuit breaker. Another consideration is incoming water temperature, especially in winter. A typical 60 amp tankless will heat water 60 degrees over incoming temperature at 2 gallons/minute flow.

Back flushing might work, but it requires disconnecting some pipes. Another thing to try is to close the supply valve and drain the tank. Opening the pressure relief valve will allow the tank to drain, baring the boiler drain plugging up with crap. When the tank is near empty, hook a Shop-Vac to the drain fitting, close the relief valve and drop the hot supply line at a convenient sink or your washing machine and let it hang in a bucket of hot water. Turn on the Shop-Vac until you've sucked the water out of the bucket.

I've used this method to undo what one of my service techs did when he hooked up a granulated carbon filter backward and filled up a customer's plumbing with about 2 cubic feet of rice grain sized carbon granules.

Sorry, I know fixing it was a pain in the ass but that's funny. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Synthaholic]

The pressure drop off is on the hot side only. Cold side is unaffected.
I did some research this morning on the tankless and discovered a few consumer issues including the cost. I'm definitely not going that route.

Electric tankless is a good deal if your rates are low. At Tennessee's 6-7 cents, it's good. At Florida's 12-13 cents, it's bad. I wouldn't want to be at the mercy of fluctuating energy prices, if I could avoid it.