Nearly 13 years old the ACA has proven GOP dead wrong... again, again, and again.

[Lesh]

More like 1.8 TRILLION.....and counting....


Indeed, the CBO projects that the gross cost of spending on exchange subsidies and related spending combined with increased federal spending on Medicaid will be over $1.8 trillion from 2015-2024.

“Gross cost”

Now tell us how much it added to the debt

 

[Seymour Flops]

Liar...

Even more shocking, HHS reports, “Average individual market premiums more than doubled from $2,784 per year in 2013 to $5,712 on Healthcare.gov in 2017—an increase of $2,928 or 105%.” Needless to say, ObamaCare has fallen woefully short in its grand ambition to slice health insurance premiums by $2,500 per year.

LoL!

I haven't thought about that little promise in years.

Lest we forget, here is Obama making it:



How stupid do Democrats feel for falling for that? Probably not as stupid as they should feel.

I don't remember a single Republican believing it. They would say sarcastically, "I wonder what I should do with the extra $2,500 . . . "

 

[pknopp]

LoL!

I haven't thought about that little promise in years.

Let we forget, here is Obama making it:



How stupid do Democrats feel for falling for that? Probably not as stupid as they should feel.

Was it a lie? Absolutely. Did I and do I condemn him for it? I do.

Is it as bad as believing that Trump was going to make Mexico pay for the wall?

Do we really want to argue that? LOL

 

[Nostra]

“Gross cost”

Now tell us how much it added to the debt

“Increased spending”. How did they pay for it?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Here at 4:15, Obamacare Architect Jonathan Gruber admits who the victims of Obamacare are:



The wealthiest 2% (of course) and healthy young people, forced to pay for the old and sick.

That was the truth that Gruber and Obama worked so hard to hide from us, in order to get the scheme passed.

 

[Nostra]

LoL!

I haven't thought about that little promise in years.

Lest we forget, here is Obama making it:



How stupid do Democrats feel for falling for that? Probably not as stupid as they should feel.

I don't remember a single Republican believing it. They would say sarcastically, "I wonder what I should do with the extra $2,500 . . . "

Is that the one he won Liar Of The Year for, or was it one of the many other Barrycare lies?

 

[Nostra]

Was it a lie? Absolutely. Did I and do I condemn him for it? I do.

Is it as bad as believing that Trump was going to make Mexico pay for the wall?

Do we really want to argue that? LOL

ORANGE MAN BAD!

What a lazy Simp.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Was it a lie? Absolutely. Did I and do I condemn him for it? I do.

Is it as bad as believing that Trump was going to make Mexico pay for the wall?

Do we really want to argue that? LOL

Yes, we do. At least we do if we care about the country more than we care about "Go BLUE!" or "Go RED!"

Whataboutism has its place. That place would be a debate, for example, about which president was most truthful about the effects of his policy goals. If that were this thread, you make a great point. Trump did promise to make Mexico pay for the wall and to complete the wall in his first term. He did neither, though he could easily have done both.

I believe that if Trump had actually built a wall, and especially if he had actually forced Mexico to pay for it, he would have been able to get enough votes in 2020 to overcome all of the shenanigans during that election. Not doing so was one of his biggest political failures.

I don't believe that Trump voters were stupid to believe him, because those goals were so achievable and obviously needed. But, stupid or not, we believed a promise that was not kept.

OK?

Can we talk about Obamacare now, or do you have further deflections?

 

[pknopp]

Yes, we do. At least we do if we care about the country more than we care about "Go BLUE!" or "Go RED!"

Whataboutism has its place. That place would be a debate, for example, about which president was most truthful about the effects of his policy goals. If that were this thread, you make a great point. Trump did promise to make Mexico pay for the wall and to complete the wall in his first term. He did neither, though he could easily have done both.

I believe that if Trump had actually built a wall, and especially if he had actually forced Mexico to pay for it, he would have been able to get enough votes in 2020 to overcome all of the shenanigans during that election. Not doing so was one of his biggest political failures.

I don't believe that Trump voters were stupid to believe him, because those goals were so achievable and obviously needed. But, stupid or not, we believed a promise that was not kept.

OK?

Can we talk about Obamacare now, or do you have further deflections?

I talked about Obamacare and how I've argued many times how it failed at what it should have accomplished. My reply was only because of an argument that it's only some that believe and defend the lies their politician tells.

And BTW, it was stupid to believe as it was never, ever going to happen, so......................

My argument stands.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I talked about Obamacare and how I've argued many times how it failed at what it should have accomplished. My reply was only because of an argument that it's only some that believe and defend the lies their politician tells.

Oh.

Who made that argument that only some believe and defend the lies their politician tells? Would you not rather make that counter argument to them, and not me who never said that?

 

[pknopp]

Oh.

Who made that argument that only some believe and defend the lies their politician tells? Would you not rather make that counter argument to them, and not me who never said that?

You argued that Republicans didn't believe the lie. I simply pointed out that they believed even dumber lies though.

Done right, Obamacare could have been what he promised. (It wasn't). Mexico was never under any circumstance going to pay for the wall.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You argued that Republicans didn't believe the lie. I simply pointed out that they believed even dumber lies though.

Done right, Obamacare could have been what he promised. (It wasn't). Mexico was never under any circumstance going to pay for the wall.

Since you insist on derailing the thread instead of having the courtesy to start your own thread, I will stop responding about that here.

Look for a thread about how "Mexico was never under any circumstances going to pay for the wall." Coming soon to a message board near you . . .

 

[Flash]

On March 23, 2010 Obama and a democratic House and Senate passed the ACA (Obamacare) 100% on party lines. Not one single Republican supported this plan. None. 58 Democratic Senators and 2 independents pushed the ACA through congress. The GOP issued doomsday warning of impending doom to our healthcare system. So where do we sit today?

• Zero increase in the out of pocket trend from ACA
• Zero increase in overall spending increase from ACA
• Historically low percentage of people uninsured
• Zero death panels are in place
• You can go to the doctor you want to go to

The GOP's dire warning regarding the Obamacare (ACA) have all ended up in the wasteland of unrealized fear mongering by people who only care about election, not service. Why would anyone support a group this wrong about everything? Tens of millions of lives improved with no corresponding economic downside.

OVERALL HEALTH CARE EXPENSES OVER TIME - Notice no change the to the trend line

View attachment 747265

OUT OF POCKET SPENDING OVER TIME - Notice no change ot the trend line

View attachment 747267


NUMBER OF UNINSURED AMERICANS - Notice all the lives positively impacted by legislation
View attachment 747269

Sources

U.S. national health expenditure per capita 1960-2022 | Statista

Per capita national health expenditures in the United States have increased significantly since 1960.

www.statista.com

How Many Americans Are Uninsured?

Around 30 million Americans have no health insurance. MoneyGeek explores the demographic of the uninsured and their reasons for remaining uninsured.

www.moneygeek.com

Out-of-pocket spending - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

Country Comparison: Trend over time: By diagnosis: By race/ethnicity: By age: By sex: By insurance status: By health status: By amount, total population: Among people with large employer coverage, amount by setting: Among people with large employer coverage, distribution of cost-sharing by setting:

www.healthsystemtracker.org

You stupid Moon Bats believe every friggin lie the Libtards tell you.

Obamacare was a disaster for health care.

My PCP hates Obamacare because it forced him to go with a large medical group that tremendously ran up his overhead cost. Before Obamacare he charged $75 for a visit. Now he is charging $300 and it is because of the burdensome requirements that doesn't do jackshit to improve health care. He hates Obama for fucking everything up. So do many more doctors.

Insurance, co payments and deductibles cost are up for everybody because of Obamacare.

Once again you post lies.

You Moon bats live a life of lies.

 

[Nostra]

You argued that Republicans didn't believe the lie. I simply pointed out that they believed even dumber lies though.

Done right, Obamacare could have been what he promised. (It wasn't). Mexico was never under any circumstance going to pay for the wall.

Who believed they would pay for the wall?

 

[citygator]

Liar...

Even more shocking, HHS reports, “Average individual market premiums more than doubled from $2,784 per year in 2013 to $5,712 on Healthcare.gov in 2017—an increase of $2,928 or 105%.” Needless to say, ObamaCare has fallen woefully short in its grand ambition to slice health insurance premiums by $2,500 per year.

Second, ObamaCare supporters claimed it would drastically reduce the uninsured population. Unfortunately, this also has not happened. As of this writing, there are roughly 28 million Americans without health insurance. And the number of those without health insurance has increased in recent years. And now that the individual mandate (a dubious provision forcing Americans to purchase health insurance) has been repealed, this number is expected to rise even more.

Why is this happening? According to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), “Simply put, there are too many people without subsidies who cannot afford coverage under Obamacare.”

To exemplify why millions of Americans remain uninsured,

CMS provides this personal account: “A 60-year old couple in Grand Island, Nebraska making $70,000 a year—which is just slightly too much to qualify for Obamacare’s premium subsidy—is faced with paying $38,000, over half of their yearly income, to buy a silver plan with an $11,100 annual maximum out-of-pocket limit.” No wonder 28 million Americans are uninsured.

CMS notes, “We should not be surprised if they make the tough decision to drop their coverage. With a similar cold reality facing millions of American families, it was inevitable that Obamacare’s affordability crisis would eventually show up in the rates of uninsured Americans.”

Third, President Obama repeatedly assured voters, “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period.” After ObamaCare was enacted, millions of Americans were unable to keep their pre-ObamaCare health insurance plan.

According to a report by The Heritage Foundation, “Obamacare has significantly disrupted the market for those who buy coverage on their own by imposing new coverage and benefit mandates, causing a reported 4.7 million health insurance cancelations of an existing policy in 32 states.”

In other words, ObamaCare’s mandates and regulations have upended the health insurance market, causing millions to lose their pre-ObamaCare plans.

ObamaCare has been an abysmal failure when it comes to the integral promise of, “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period.” Such is why President Obama’s pledge was named the Lie of the Year for 2013 by PolitiFact.

ObamaCare: 10 years of distress and disappointment

ObamaCare has failed miserably because it lacks free-market principles and is a one-size-fits all, centrally planned boondoggle.

thehill.com

But...in truth....it did work as planned....it undermined private health insurance making it more expensive...it just hasn't destroyed it to the point the government can seize control of the whole thing yet....

You are dead wrong. Dead wrong. You’re falling for what everyone falls for. Show me on this graph of premiums where Obamacare impacted it. I’ll wait.

Sure they went up after Obamacare but they went up before too. It made no impact to costs… just covered more people.

Section 1: Cost of Health Insurance - 10020 | KFF

The average annual premiums in 2022 are $7,911 for single coverage and $22,463 for family coverage. These amounts are similar to the premiums in 2021 ($7,739 for single coverage and $22,221 for family coverage). The average family premium has increased 20% since 2017 and 43% since 2012. This...

www.kff.org

 

[citygator]

You stupid Moon Bats believe every friggin lie the Libtards tell you.

Obamacare was a disaster for health care.

My PCP hates Obamacare because it forced him to go with a large medical group that tremendously ran up his overhead cost. Before Obamacare he charged $75 for a visit. Now he is charging $300 and it is because of the burdensome requirements that doesn't do jackshit to improve health care. He hates Obama for fucking everything up. So do many more doctors.

Insurance, co payments and deductibles cost are up for everybody because of Obamacare.

Once again you post lies.

You Moon bats live a life of lies.

Show me on any data I posted a negative impact from Obamacare. No where. None. Zero.

No shit your insurance is going up. It always goes up. Just like tuition goes up and the price of bread.

Its trajectory never changed with Obamacare. Obamacare was simply about access of affordable healthcare for 20M people. It doesn’t make healthcare magically cheap.

 

[citygator]

I’ve posted data everywhere in this thread and all I’ve seen in return is fake news ratings, personal stories, and snippets of price increases after ACA without looking at price increases before ACA were on the same track.

Your GQP leaders aren’t trying to repeal because they know it’s good, know it’s working, and have no better options.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You are dead wrong. Dead wrong. You’re falling for what everyone falls for. Show me on this graph of premiums where Obamacare impacted it. I’ll wait.

Sure they went up after Obamacare but they went up before too. It made no impact to costs… just covered more people.

View attachment 747556

Section 1: Cost of Health Insurance - 10020 | KFF

The average annual premiums in 2022 are $7,911 for single coverage and $22,463 for family coverage. These amounts are similar to the premiums in 2021 ($7,739 for single coverage and $22,221 for family coverage). The average family premium has increased 20% since 2017 and 43% since 2012. This...

www.kff.org

Look where the sharpest rise in that graph is:

2010 was the year Obamacare passed.

Contrast that with Obama's promised savings of $2500 per year if Obamacre passed.

The increase in the number of people insured is a function of Obamacare subsidies for people who did not choose to bear the expense of health insurance premiums prior to those subsidies. Those subsidies to be paid for by that sharp increase in premiums for those who do. That or simply printing money which depletes the value of the money people who were already paying premiums earn and save.

So in 2010 the healthy began paying for the sick, due to the requirement that insurance accept people with pre-existing conditions who had not insured themselves prior to the need for treatement At the same time, those already paying the high cost of their own insurance began being forced to pay for the high cost of other people's insurance as well.

None of that is a mystery. Again, Jonathan Gruber explained it very honestly.

 

[themirrorthief]

You argued that Republicans didn't believe the lie. I simply pointed out that they believed even dumber lies though.

Done right, Obamacare could have been what he promised. (It wasn't). Mexico was never under any circumstance going to pay for the wall.

a few bombs dropped on mexico city would have changed that

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

On March 23, 2010 Obama and a democratic House and Senate passed the ACA (Obamacare) 100% on party lines. Not one single Republican supported this plan. None. 58 Democratic Senators and 2 independents pushed the ACA through congress. The GOP issued doomsday warning of impending doom to our healthcare system. So where do we sit today?

• Zero increase in the out of pocket trend from ACA
• Zero increase in overall spending increase from ACA
• Historically low percentage of people uninsured
• Zero death panels are in place
• You can go to the doctor you want to go to

It failed, by Obama's own metrics, but naturally you see it as a success. You also think Biden is a good president. That's how low the bar has been set.

Obama’s $2,500 Promise | National Review

Presidential candidate Barack Obama has a cure for high health-care costs. If elected, he would cut the average family’s annual health-insurance premiums by $2,500, and everyone would get health co…

www.nationalreview.com