Myth busting universal healthcare

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The United States lags behind other industrialized nations in the quality of its healthcare despite having the costliest system in the world, according to a report released on Thursday.

The US healthcare system is plagued by inefficiency, inequality and an incoherent national policy, said the report from the private Commonwealth Fund foundation.

"The US spends twice per capita what other major industrialized countries spend on health care, and costs continue to rise faster than income," said the report.

"We should expect a better return on this investment."

The foundation used a 100-point scorecard to rate the system based on 37 categories, including access to health care, quality of care and efficiency.

The US average came to 65, two points down from a previous measure in 2006. The score is compared to other countries and the best performing US states, counties or hospitals.

The measures showed "that the US is losing ground in providing access to care and has uneven health care quality" and also revealed "broad evidence of inefficient and inequitable care," it said.

The United States ranked last among 19 industrialized states when it comes to preventing premature deaths from conditions such as heart attacks that can be treated with timely, effective care, the report said.

Up to 101,000 less people would die prematurely if the US achieved the lower mortality rates of top performing countries such as France or Japan, it said.

Infant mortality rates also remain high in the United States compared to other industrialized nations.

Access to health care was on the decline, with more Americans without health insurance or without adequate insurance. In 2007, 75 million working-age adults were either uninsured or underinsured, up from 61 million in 2003.

Americans reported more delays in securing appointments with doctors. "In 2007, as in 2005, less than half of US adults with health problems were able to get a rapid appointment with a physician when they were sick," it said.

The US scored poorly on efficiency, with patients subjected to duplicate tests, unnecessary hospital admissions, high administrative costs and outdated record keeping, it said.

Only 28 percent of US doctors use electronic medical records, compared to nearly 100 percent in leading countries.

The report, based on data from US government agencies and other sources, underlined some areas of progress, including improved safety at hospitals and better control of diabetes and high blood pressure.

US healthcare costs more, delivers less: study - Yahoo! News
 
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How often do you seriously ask that question of our military budget?

Our military budget costs are posted each year, so why would I have to ask?

This Universal Health care idea, is not part of the bedget, so I can not go look and see how much it will cost.

therefore I ask again. HOW MUCH WILL THIS COST A YEAR!!!!!!!!!!

I think that is a perfectly reasonable question, and franky the only numbers someone has given so far, seem WAY TO LOW to me.

My father died of Cancer only 1.4 years after being diagnosed. His insurance company paid 338,000 dollars for his treatment during that time. Now I do not know about you, but things like that lead to believe that the real costs of Universal health care will be exponentially more than 59 billion a year. In fact I think the real costs will make the military budget and the war in Iraq seem cheap! Now seeing we are running near half tillion dollar deficits, we really need to take a step back, and find out how much this will really cost before we jump into it.
 
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Our military budget costs are posted each year, so why would I have to ask?

This Universal Health care idea, is not part of the bedget, so I can not go look and see how much it will cost.

therefore I ask again. HOW MUCH WILL THIS COST A YEAR!!!!!!!!!!

I think that is a perfectly reasonable question, and franky the only numbers someone has given so far, seem WAY TO LOW to me.

My father died of Cancer only 1.4 years after being diagnosed. His insurance company paid 338,000 dollars for his treatment during that time. Now I do not know about you, but things like that lead to believe that the real costs of Universal health care will be exponentially more than 59 billion a year. In fact I think the real costs will make the military budget and the war in Iraq seem cheap! Now seeing we are running near half tillion dollar deficits, we really need to take a step back, and find out how much this will really cost before we jump into it.

how far along was the cancer before he was diagnosed?
 
Our military budget costs are posted each year, so why would I have to ask?

This Universal Health care idea, is not part of the bedget, so I can not go look and see how much it will cost.

therefore I ask again. HOW MUCH WILL THIS COST A YEAR!!!!!!!!!!

I think that is a perfectly reasonable question, and franky the only numbers someone has given so far, seem WAY TO LOW to me.

My father died of Cancer only 1.4 years after being diagnosed. His insurance company paid 338,000 dollars for his treatment during that time. Now I do not know about you, but things like that lead to believe that the real costs of Universal health care will be exponentially more than 59 billion a year. In fact I think the real costs will make the military budget and the war in Iraq seem cheap! Now seeing we are running near half tillion dollar deficits, we really need to take a step back, and find out how much this will really cost before we jump into it.

demographic%20change_health%20care%20costs%20per%20country_96dpi_1.jpg
 
Thanks for making my case for me With your graph Kirk. Health care is expsensive as hell in this nation, and you think if the govrnment is paying for it that it will what? Get cheaper? and at what costs will that come? At the cost of lower quality, and less inovation. It is the money to be made in health care, that keeps the best doctors in the world here, and the best inovations in medicine here. If you force the costs down with regulations, it will come at the cost of those things. You will trade quality for Quantity.

Your little chart only proves that Universal health care in this country will either lower the quality of our health care, or be extrodinarily exspenive, Or Both, and all those costs will be born by our Government. Either taxes will sky rocket, or the Deficits will.
 
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Thanks for making my case for me With your graph Kirk. Health care is expsensive as hell in this nation, and you think if the govrnment is paying for it that it will what? Get cheaper? and at what costs will that come? At the cost of lower quality, and less inovation. It is the money to be made in health care, that keeps the best doctors in the world here, and the best inovations in medicine here. If you force the costs down with regulations, it will come at the cost of those things. You will trade quality for Quantity.

Your little chart only proves that Universal health care in this country will either lower the quality of our health care, or be extrodinarily exspenive, Or Both, and all those costs will be born by our Government. Either taxes will sky rocket, or the Deficits will.

My little chart proves that universal healthcare has inherent cost savings and can provide healthcare for everyone better than our current bloated for profit system.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
 
My little chart proves that universal healthcare has inherent cost savings and can provide healthcare for everyone better than our current bloated for profit system.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei


as I have pointed out in the past, that list is based on access to health care, not on quality of health care.

Besides nothing you are saying does anything to dispute our claims that universal health care in the US will cost TRILLIONS of dollars a year.
 
as I have pointed out in the past, that list is based on access to health care, not on quality of health care.

Besides nothing you are saying does anything to dispute our claims that universal health care in the US will cost TRILLIONS of dollars a year.

but you couldnt back up your claims. as you said, it's just a 'feeling.' and the other guy was including medicare and medicaid in his budget proj's (which i'm guessing you are doing that too). and they will exist and cost money whether obama is elected or not
 
as I have pointed out in the past, that list is based on access to health care, not on quality of health care.

Besides nothing you are saying does anything to dispute our claims that universal health care in the US will cost TRILLIONS of dollars a year.

Healthcare takes up 15% of our GDP right now. Most of the other developed countries pay about half that percentage, and they cover everyone. Universal healthcare will save us trillions of dollars in the long run.
 
Healthcare takes up 15% of our GDP right now. Most of the other developed countries pay about half that percentage, and they cover everyone. Universal healthcare will save us trillions of dollars in the long run.


COMPLETE AND TOTAL BS. But as I said believe what you want, I will not waste time arguing with a blind partisan hack.
 
COMPLETE AND TOTAL BS. But as I said believe what you want, I will not waste time arguing with a blind partisan hack.

I just showed you the data that shows that the other developed countries pay almost half what we do for healthcare and cover everyone.

How is that BS?
 
Healthcare takes up 15% of our GDP right now. Most of the other developed countries pay about half that percentage, and they cover everyone. Universal healthcare will save us trillions of dollars in the long run.

How about including in your analysis only those countries that have 300 million or more people. Then tell us how we stack up. It's one thing to do it with countries less than 100 or 150 million. It is quite another to double or triple those numbers.
 
How about including in your analysis only those countries that have 300 million or more people. Then tell us how we stack up. It's one thing to do it with countries less than 100 or 150 million. It is quite another to double or triple those numbers.

can you include in your 'analysis' (i used that word lightly, as you have offered nothing but conjecture) why that would make it so much more impossible and expensive? or can you back up anything you say with hard data? and i'm not talking just showing how much medicare and medicaid cost, as that will be spent regardless (as i already told you, but you seem to ignore)
 
How about including in your analysis only those countries that have 300 million or more people. Then tell us how we stack up. It's one thing to do it with countries less than 100 or 150 million. It is quite another to double or triple those numbers.

This always cracks me up. Oh, we're too big to have alternative energy.....Oh, we're too big to have universal healthcare. Bullsh*t!

We are THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. We have more resources and usable land than any country in the world. The only thing holding us back are the Republicans and the corporate lobbyists.
 
can you include in your 'analysis' (i used that word lightly, as you have offered nothing but conjecture) why that would make it so much more impossible and expensive? or can you back up anything you say with hard data? and i'm not talking just showing how much medicare and medicaid cost, as that will be spent regardless (as i already told you, but you seem to ignore)

I don't think I've attempted to analyze anything on this thread. I've made a suggestion as to the real problem with the health care system. I've taken a couple of pot shots at kirk that I believe he has inadequately responded to, but I haven't attempted an analysis.
 
This always cracks me up. Oh, we're too big to have alternative energy.....Oh, we're too big to have universal healthcare. Bullsh*t!

We are THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. We have more resources and usable land than any country in the world. The only thing holding us back are the Republicans and the corporate lobbyists.

I thought we were in debt up to our eyeballs because of Bush. Which is it ?
 

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