My thoughts on transgenderism, gender fluidity. See what you think.

[Mac1958]

I'm not asking anyone to read this post in it's entirety, feel free to discuss portions, those which you care to address, or add to the discussion.

While we don't agree on everything, I appreciate the fact that you can think for yourself and not just get in line. As for me, I'd boil it down to two things, one that leads into the other.

First, gender dysphoria is already a recognized condition and I think we should just treat it as such. It doesn't mean that the person is bad or should be treated with scorn or unqualified to live their life and be in the workforce. And second, I just don't understand this need the Left has to constantly try to blur the line between men and women. This abject refusal to admit that we are different (and in my estimation, different in delightful ways). This has never made sense to me. What is the point?

So the Left has done what it always does on the cultural issues: It designates a group of people as a Certified Victim Group, holds them up on a pedestal, and expects everyone else to fall in line. Those who choose NOT to fall in line are immediately attacked, intimidated and punished. Does the Left really believe that these tactics are going to somehow change hearts and minds? All it has done is increase resentment and make people far more likely to lash out when confronted with it. Human nature.

This desperation to normalize everything is so weird to me. What's the great benefit of being normal, anyway?

 

[Rigby5]

Well, Republicans sure are writing a bunch of laws about it, so, there ya go.

But you already mentioned about how puberty blockers and medical changes before puberty are bad.
So there is a need for a "bunch of laws about it".

 

[Rigby5]

I don't care what pronouns a person wants me to call them. I'll respect their wishes.

When we learned how to talk, we were taught rules.
Those rules can't change just because someone decides they personally prefer something else.
If you start doing that, the language will cease to exist, words will have no meaning, and communications will end.

 

[g5000]

When we learned how to talk, we were taught rules.
Those rules can't change just because someone decides they personally prefer something else.
If you start doing that, the language will cease to exist, words will have no meaning, and communications will end.

It hasn't shut you up, now has it.

 

[Rumpole]

But you already mentioned about how puberty blockers and medical changes before puberty are bad.
So there is a need for a "bunch of laws about it".

I wouldn't presume, as a non doctor, to know what is best for a patient, that is between the doctor and patient. What a number of red states are doing is banning the practice, and I'm not suggesting this is the right course of action, either. I think red state have gone too far in that direction without basing their legislation in medical science.

Where I would be concerned if there is zealotry going on, and kids who shouldn't be placed on the blockers, or given treatment but are given gender affirming treatment needlessly given the woke zealots in the field. I'm not going as far as to totally ban the practice, because surely there are legitimate medical cases, but, what I worry about is woke types resorting to recommending a child to change sex when what they should be doing is encouraging the child that it's okay to be gay, it's okay to be an effeminate male, and that changing sex is dangerous for health, etc. I think the law should make clear that allowing transgender sex change affirmation should be the last resort and in extreme cases. I worry that not enough effort is being made in this area. In this field we should have, not as 'laws' but as 'guidelines' handed to the medical profession from the AMA and other professional organizations. I think politicians should not be in the business of telling doctor how to practice medicine. I think the law should direct these professional organizations to based their guidelines on what their priorities should be, and that is the extent of laws, in my view.

 

[Blaster]

Study examines straight men and their sexual attraction to transgender women

An analysis of online Reddit conversations also revealed a paradox: the same men devalue both trans and cisgender women.

news.ucr.edu

 

[Cellblock2429]

For the TLDR crowd, not asking you to read the entire thing, just take a point, or two, if that's all you want. No problem.

I realize modern psychology has shifted its view to accept that if someone believes one is of the opposite gender, then that person is that gender, and now the term 'gender' and 'sex', are not necessarily the same thing. However, I disagree, and for millenia this was not the case. In terms of history, this is a recent development. Now, many recent developments are now fact. but psychology is a soft science, it's not like physics when results are either there, or they are not, and physicists an reproduce the results you claim on a published paper. There is considerable more subjectivity in psychology, than the hard sciences.

Psychology is sometimes considered a soft science, but this can be a matter of debate and interpretation.

The term "soft science" is often used to refer to fields of study that rely heavily on subjective interpretation and do not typically involve precise quantitative measurement. Fields like sociology, anthropology, and psychology are sometimes considered soft sciences because they rely on observations, case studies, and interviews to gather data and often deal with complex, difficult-to-measure variables such as emotions, beliefs, and attitudes.

However, it's important to note that psychology is a broad field that encompasses many different subfields, some of which involve more precise, quantitative measurements. For example, cognitive psychology and neuropsychology use neuroimaging techniques to measure brain activity, and experimental psychology uses carefully controlled experiments to test hypotheses and measure outcomes.

In addition, psychology has made significant contributions to other fields, such as medicine, education, and business, which suggests that it is a rigorous and valuable scientific discipline.

Overall, while some aspects of psychology may involve subjective interpretation, the field as a whole is a complex and multifaceted science that incorporates both qualitative and quantitative methods. So, my point is, psychology is a kind of hybrid science, part subjective, part objective. It is on the subject of gender fluidity, in my personal opinion, there is considerable subjectivity going on. I personally don't like the word 'woke' it's a weasel word, so it won't be used here.

I am critical with my liberal brethren in some key respects on this subject, and in agreement on others.

Now then, on 'pronouns' let's get that out of the way, first.

If I use a pronoun referring to an effeminate male, and I happen to be aware that that person transfemale who dresses as a female, wears make up, etc, I would assume that that persons prefers the feminine pronoun and I have no issue obliging them on that point. I do it because it's not that big of a deal with me, and I don't want to fight, if I can avoid it. But, that I would do that is out of courtesy, not obligation.

However, if that same effeminate male approached me as asked me my opinion as to that person's sex, I would answer as follows:

I am one who believes gender and sex are the same thing, as this was the norm for millenia and I see no reason to believe otherwise. Does that answer your question? My point is, if you don't want an honest answer to the question, don't ask it. Some might agree with your point of view, some might not, be prepared for it and respect their sensitivities, and we will respect yours, where we can. On that point, my position is as follows:

1. I do understand there is a real phenomenon called 'transgender/gender fluidity' and it shouldn't be trivialized or ridiculed or shamed.

2. On the matter of children, It is my view that adults, given that children have vivid imaginations, tend to be influenced by adults and what is on television, subject to peer pressure, get ideas with which they easily change their mind, or lose interest, as time passes, that they often pursue fads and things trendy, that we, as adults, should try and convince a child, who might be gender confused, given that it might be merely an outside influence, a temporal thing, we should try first to have the child acknowledge their biological sex is their true sex, and if they (boys) exhibit effeminate characteristics, explain to the child that it is perfectly okay for a boy to be effeminate, perfectly okay for a girl to be masculine (as in a 'tomboy'), that these conditions often fade as they grow up, and that I believe, sincerely, it is actually better for one's mental and spiritual health to be honest and acknowledge what one truly is, and that, for children, over time, their truer selves emerge from the fog of life's barrage of confusing influences.

After the age of 18, if they still are determined to be transgender, that is their right and we should respect it. If I were to counsel a young man, or young woman, I would still act in accordance to the above, given the chance they are still young, and still might change. I tell a young man or woman, it's perfectly okay to be gay, and watch out for the tendency some gay boys and girls to envy being straight, the solution of which would be to change one sex. In my view, envy would be the wrong reason to change one's sex. But doing that, is a radical change for one's biology, and can lead to serious health consequences. Proceed with the utmost caution.

But, for children, I adamantly don't believe in sex change surgery, puberty blockers, for children, no matter how apparently 'urgent a child may make it seem . As I understand it, there is no surgery going on? (is there? I hope not), but some kids are given puberty blockers, and I think this is wrong (but I'm not an expert, or a Doctor, so it comes with a caveat).

Children are children, they have powerful and fanciful imaginations (I remember vividly my own childhood--I remember in the 6th grade, I envied left handed kids. I thought being left-handed was 'cool', and since I was practically ambidextrous, it was easy for me to pretend being left handed. After awhile, the fad faded and I returned to being my normal self, predominantly right handed) and much is urgent in the life of a child. To make such an assumption for a child, leading to life altering drugs and surgery, in my view, is a mistake, and could be a tragic one, if harm comes to the child, that the child changes his/her mind, later on.

3. I believe transgenders, gays, lesbians, etc., should be treated with respect and they should not be discriminated against and have all the rights that all citizens possess and that anti discrimination laws pertain to them, as they do to race, creed, etc.

4. I am more than happy to treat a transgender with their preferred pronouns, and treat them as their gender to which they identify. However, there are limits, and those are commented on, herein.

5. I simply do not accept the concept of 'non binary'. To me, these persons are androgenous/A-sexual. Unless you are born in with a rare case of being intersex, you are either or female. This idea of not indicating sex on birth certificates is insane. This was the conventional wisdom for such persons, when I grew up and over decades. I will use he or she or him or her as they prefer, but NOT 'they'. No one has the right to change what centuries have decided meanings of words mean.True, meanings of words evolve, but it happens always organically, NEVER by 'decree'. However, if anyone obliges on that point, it is out of courtesy, not obligation. I choose not to, on the subject of A-sexual persons. Why? Because 'they/their/them' normally means plural. I understand that 'they' has been used, though rarely, when describing singular when the sex of the person being spoken of is not known, that is the only grammatical exception, i.e, 'Someone-they left their jacket on the park bench').

However, that being said.

1. I believe that heterosexuals have the right to date only other heterosexuals. If they date transgender, that is their willful choice, but for a heterosexual who claims he or is only willing to date, marry, fall in love with, only other heterosexuals that this does NOT constitute discrimination against transgendered persons. One cannot help who one is attracted to. I warn transfemales who might be considering surgery but only in order that they perceive they might be able to attract straight males. I say, hold on! While there might be some straight males who see you as a woman, myself, being a straight male, I must say, no, they will probably see you as a gay man, and you will have a tough time finding a straight man. In fact, transfemales would be much better off not getting surgery, and I strongly suspect there are far more gay men (for some I've talked to about it, anyway) that prefer well endowed transfemales, than there will be straight males who are so liberated they will accept you as they would any woman, and I advise them strongly not to go through it it. It would be an irreversible decision and I don't see how it could improve one's libido, it seems logical that it would kill it, but I just don't know. That's my position, anyway. If there is research on this, then point me to it.

2. I believe that heterosexuals (or anyone, for that matter) have the right to use whatever pronouns they prefer with regard to transexuals, non binary persons, and any heterosexual who uses a transgendered or non binary person's prefered pronoun is an act of courtesy but such cannot be forced or legislated.

3. Sports, this is a problem. I understand that women are complaining, and they have a valid point. I'm not a sports enthusiast so I will let the professionals duke it out on this subject. I'm with the ladies, though, that's my leaning, unless someone can convince me of otherwise.

4. Restrooms. No one with a penis should be allowed to use a woman's facility, and vice versa. End of argument. Post op, I haven't figured that one out. Help me out.

I invite challenges, comments, discussions, affirmations, etc., as long as it is civil. If it is otherwise, such comments will be ignored.

I'm not asking anyone to read this post in it's entirety, feel free to discuss portions, those which you care to address, or add to the discussion.

/——/ Thanks for the cut and paste.

 

[HeyNorm]

You have every right to your opinion and to speak your opinion.

The real question is your intent.

Are you such a stickler for expressing your truth that you tell a woman how ugly she is in the morning? Tell the cops at the donut shop they'd be better off at the salad bar across the street? Tell the parents of a downs child to get their moron home where it belongs?

Is it about speaking your truth by denying theirs or using your right to speak to hurt someone who's never harmed you.

In either case you're acting purposefully with te intent to harm another person.

Born that way vs. wanting a fetish normalized.

How cute.

 

[sartre play]

I see the problem,
What I cant abide is it being blown up into a massive problem and done for one reason only.
Only for the sake of political propaganda,
that helps too keep a part of the population angry all the time.
People That are already afraid of everything.
We are mired in other problems
problems that effect a majority of us.
not just those effected by a few hundred thousand people at best.

 

[Dadoalex]

Born that way vs. wanting a fetish normalized.

How cute.

Fetish is your issue.
Born the wrong way is theirs.

 

[marvin martian]

Fetish is your issue.
Born the wrong way is theirs.

Stay away from the kids.

 

[Dadoalex]

Stay away from the kids.

Why?
I've said nothing untrue.

 

[HeyNorm]

Fetish is your issue.
Born the wrong way is theirs.

Nope. I live in reality. They should as well.

 

[Leviticus]

The way I see it, People should be allowed to live their lives. However they see fit as long as they are not harming others. The fact that republicall themselves small government, When some of their main policy positions include Using the government to Control people's personal lives is a complete joke.

And let get one thing straight, If you're a person who opposes transgenderism or homosexuality because of religious beliefs I only have one thing to say to you. F*** y** and f*** your god. Your religious beliefs do not dictate the rights of other people. Take your theocratic fascism and shove it up your a**.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

For the TLDR crowd, not asking you to read the entire thing, just take a point, or two, if that's all you want. No problem.

I realize modern psychology has shifted its view to accept that if someone believes one is of the opposite gender, then that person is that gender, and now the term 'gender' and 'sex', are not necessarily the same thing. However, I disagree, and for millenia this was not the case. In terms of history, this is a recent development. Now, many recent developments are now fact. but psychology is a soft science, it's not like physics when results are either there, or they are not, and physicists an reproduce the results you claim on a published paper. There is considerable more subjectivity in psychology, than the hard sciences.

Psychology is sometimes considered a soft science, but this can be a matter of debate and interpretation.

The term "soft science" is often used to refer to fields of study that rely heavily on subjective interpretation and do not typically involve precise quantitative measurement. Fields like sociology, anthropology, and psychology are sometimes considered soft sciences because they rely on observations, case studies, and interviews to gather data and often deal with complex, difficult-to-measure variables such as emotions, beliefs, and attitudes.

However, it's important to note that psychology is a broad field that encompasses many different subfields, some of which involve more precise, quantitative measurements. For example, cognitive psychology and neuropsychology use neuroimaging techniques to measure brain activity, and experimental psychology uses carefully controlled experiments to test hypotheses and measure outcomes.

In addition, psychology has made significant contributions to other fields, such as medicine, education, and business, which suggests that it is a rigorous and valuable scientific discipline.

Overall, while some aspects of psychology may involve subjective interpretation, the field as a whole is a complex and multifaceted science that incorporates both qualitative and quantitative methods. So, my point is, psychology is a kind of hybrid science, part subjective, part objective. It is on the subject of gender fluidity, in my personal opinion, there is considerable subjectivity going on. I personally don't like the word 'woke' it's a weasel word, so it won't be used here.

I am critical with my liberal brethren in some key respects on this subject, and in agreement on others.

Now then, on 'pronouns' let's get that out of the way, first.

If I use a pronoun referring to an effeminate male, and I happen to be aware that that person transfemale who dresses as a female, wears make up, etc, I would assume that that persons prefers the feminine pronoun and I have no issue obliging them on that point. I do it because it's not that big of a deal with me, and I don't want to fight, if I can avoid it. But, that I would do that is out of courtesy, not obligation.

However, if that same effeminate male approached me as asked me my opinion as to that person's sex, I would answer as follows:

I am one who believes gender and sex are the same thing, as this was the norm for millenia and I see no reason to believe otherwise. Does that answer your question? My point is, if you don't want an honest answer to the question, don't ask it. Some might agree with your point of view, some might not, be prepared for it and respect their sensitivities, and we will respect yours, where we can. On that point, my position is as follows:

1. I do understand there is a real phenomenon called 'transgender/gender fluidity' and it shouldn't be trivialized or ridiculed or shamed.

2. On the matter of children, It is my view that adults, given that children have vivid imaginations, tend to be influenced by adults and what is on television, subject to peer pressure, get ideas with which they easily change their mind, or lose interest, as time passes, that they often pursue fads and things trendy, that we, as adults, should try and convince a child, who might be gender confused, given that it might be merely an outside influence, a temporal thing, we should try first to have the child acknowledge their biological sex is their true sex, and if they (boys) exhibit effeminate characteristics, explain to the child that it is perfectly okay for a boy to be effeminate, perfectly okay for a girl to be masculine (as in a 'tomboy'), that these conditions often fade as they grow up, and that I believe, sincerely, it is actually better for one's mental and spiritual health to be honest and acknowledge what one truly is, and that, for children, over time, their truer selves emerge from the fog of life's barrage of confusing influences.

After the age of 18, if they still are determined to be transgender, that is their right and we should respect it. If I were to counsel a young man, or young woman, I would still act in accordance to the above, given the chance they are still young, and still might change. I tell a young man or woman, it's perfectly okay to be gay, and watch out for the tendency some gay boys and girls to envy being straight, the solution of which would be to change one sex. In my view, envy would be the wrong reason to change one's sex. But doing that, is a radical change for one's biology, and can lead to serious health consequences. Proceed with the utmost caution.

But, for children, I adamantly don't believe in sex change surgery, puberty blockers, for children, no matter how apparently 'urgent a child may make it seem . As I understand it, there is no surgery going on? (is there? I hope not), but some kids are given puberty blockers, and I think this is wrong (but I'm not an expert, or a Doctor, so it comes with a caveat).

Children are children, they have powerful and fanciful imaginations (I remember vividly my own childhood--I remember in the 6th grade, I envied left handed kids. I thought being left-handed was 'cool', and since I was practically ambidextrous, it was easy for me to pretend being left handed. After awhile, the fad faded and I returned to being my normal self, predominantly right handed) and much is urgent in the life of a child. To make such an assumption for a child, leading to life altering drugs and surgery, in my view, is a mistake, and could be a tragic one, if harm comes to the child, that the child changes his/her mind, later on.

3. I believe transgenders, gays, lesbians, etc., should be treated with respect and they should not be discriminated against and have all the rights that all citizens possess and that anti discrimination laws pertain to them, as they do to race, creed, etc.

4. I am more than happy to treat a transgender with their preferred pronouns, and treat them as their gender to which they identify. However, there are limits, and those are commented on, herein.

5. I simply do not accept the concept of 'non binary'. To me, these persons are androgenous/A-sexual. Unless you are born in with a rare case of being intersex, you are either or female. This idea of not indicating sex on birth certificates is insane. This was the conventional wisdom for such persons, when I grew up and over decades. I will use he or she or him or her as they prefer, but NOT 'they'. No one has the right to change what centuries have decided meanings of words mean.True, meanings of words evolve, but it happens always organically, NEVER by 'decree'. However, if anyone obliges on that point, it is out of courtesy, not obligation. I choose not to, on the subject of A-sexual persons. Why? Because 'they/their/them' normally means plural. I understand that 'they' has been used, though rarely, when describing singular when the sex of the person being spoken of is not known, that is the only grammatical exception, i.e, 'Someone-they left their jacket on the park bench').

However, that being said.

1. I believe that heterosexuals have the right to date only other heterosexuals. If they date transgender, that is their willful choice, but for a heterosexual who claims he or is only willing to date, marry, fall in love with, only other heterosexuals that this does NOT constitute discrimination against transgendered persons. One cannot help who one is attracted to. I warn transfemales who might be considering surgery but only in order that they perceive they might be able to attract straight males. I say, hold on! While there might be some straight males who see you as a woman, myself, being a straight male, I must say, no, they will probably see you as a gay man, and you will have a tough time finding a straight man. In fact, transfemales would be much better off not getting surgery, and I strongly suspect there are far more gay men (for some I've talked to about it, anyway) that prefer well endowed transfemales, than there will be straight males who are so liberated they will accept you as they would any woman, and I advise them strongly not to go through it it. It would be an irreversible decision and I don't see how it could improve one's libido, it seems logical that it would kill it, but I just don't know. That's my position, anyway. If there is research on this, then point me to it.

2. I believe that heterosexuals (or anyone, for that matter) have the right to use whatever pronouns they prefer with regard to transexuals, non binary persons, and any heterosexual who uses a transgendered or non binary person's prefered pronoun is an act of courtesy but such cannot be forced or legislated.

3. Sports, this is a problem. I understand that women are complaining, and they have a valid point. I'm not a sports enthusiast so I will let the professionals duke it out on this subject. I'm with the ladies, though, that's my leaning, unless someone can convince me of otherwise.

4. Restrooms. No one with a penis should be allowed to use a woman's facility, and vice versa. End of argument. Post op, I haven't figured that one out. Help me out.

I invite challenges, comments, discussions, affirmations, etc., as long as it is civil. If it is otherwise, such comments will be ignored.

I'm not asking anyone to read this post in it's entirety, feel free to discuss portions, those which you care to address, or add to the discussion.

No one questions a sis genderered hetero person when they knew who they identified as or to whom they were attracted to. It just is what it is.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Nope. I live in reality. They should as well.

You live in your reality.
What if you didn’t?

 

[Dadoalex]

Nope. I live in reality. They should as well.

Your reality.
Their reality is much different.
Their reality includes being hated by closet queens like you just because they are.

 

[HeyNorm]

Your reality.
Their reality is much different.
Their reality includes being hated by closet queens like you just because they are.

You must have asked your buddies at the gay bar for that response.

 

[HeyNorm]

The way I see it, People should be allowed to live their lives. However they see fit as long as they are not harming others. The fact that republicall themselves small government, When some of their main policy positions include Using the government to Control people's personal lives is a complete joke.

And let get one thing straight, If you're a person who opposes transgenderism or homosexuality because of religious beliefs I only have one thing to say to you. F*** y** and f*** your god. Your religious beliefs do not dictate the rights of other people. Take your theocratic fascism and shove it up your a**.

How friggen tolerant of you.

 

[Dadoalex]

You must have asked your buddies at the gay bar for that response.

And you must have asked your fellow closet queens for that one.

Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals

A new analysis of implicit bias and explicit sexual orientation statements may help to explain the underpinnings of anti-gay bullying and hate crimes

www.scientificamerican.com