Muslim prisoners win freedom to pray in groups.

[Missourian]

The judge made the right decision..........

I concur.

 

[JustTheFacts]

'American Taliban' wins right to group prayer in prison - CNN.com

Up until 2007, the unit of mostly Muslim prisoners in a prison in Indiana were allowed to gather 3 times a day for prayer. Recently, although they are still allowed to gather, and even listen to the Quran, they have been limited to praying once a week, except for Ramadan. A judge ruled that those rules violate their religious freedoms.

Valedictorians from public high schools who incorporate prayer into their speech are denied. The Muslim convicted felons have more religious freedoms than American public school students.

Incorrect. Student led prayer is allowed in public schools.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Did I say a specific religion? The point was when God was in schools, acedemics were achieved. Now we have a failed system. This is not an accidental occurence.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[saveliberty]

'American Taliban' wins right to group prayer in prison - CNN.com

Up until 2007, the unit of mostly Muslim prisoners in a prison in Indiana were allowed to gather 3 times a day for prayer. Recently, although they are still allowed to gather, and even listen to the Quran, they have been limited to praying once a week, except for Ramadan. A judge ruled that those rules violate their religious freedoms.

Valedictorians from public high schools who incorporate prayer into their speech are denied. The Muslim convicted felons have more religious freedoms than American public school students.

Incorrect. Student led prayer is allowed in public schools.

You sir are the one who is incorrect.

 

[lukelk]

I'm shocked that you would think that Sunni, really, shocked.

Actually I think the issue of religious freedom in prison is a tricky one. Being in prison you lose lots of freedoms, and depending on the situation, religion is one of them.

wrong, you maintain the freedom of religion in prison. also to the person who said students can make religious statements in PUBLIC schools is correct. There isa difference between the two, now if the prison forced all inmates to listen to the muslim speech, that would be the parallel

 

[saveliberty]

They using that loudspeaker call to prayer thingy? Man, talk about having to listen to something REALLY annoying.

 

[pinqy]

Valedictorians from public high schools who incorporate prayer into their speech are denied. The Muslim convicted felons have more religious freedoms than American public school students.

Incorrect. Student led prayer is allowed in public schools.

You sir are the one who is incorrect.

Students are allowed to meet and organize and pray as long as it truly is student-led and no teachers are involved. Basically, as long as there is no appearance that the school supports or encourages it, it's allowed (neither can the school discourage it).

And a person with government endorsement/support giving a religious speech to a captive audience is not anything similar to a private group conducting private prayers for themselves.

The ruling in Lee v Weisman (1992) was:

The principle that government may accommodate the free exercise of religion does not supersede the fundamental limitations imposed by the Establishment Clause, which guarantees, at a minimum, that a government may not coerce anyone to support or participate in religion or its exercise, or otherwise act in a way which "establishes a [505 U.S. 577, 578] [state] religion or religious faith, or tends to do so."

 

[saveliberty]

Incorrect. Student led prayer is allowed in public schools.

You sir are the one who is incorrect.

Students are allowed to meet and organize and pray as long as it truly is student-led and no teachers are involved. Basically, as long as there is no appearance that the school supports or encourages it, it's allowed (neither can the school discourage it).

And a person with government endorsement/support giving a religious speech to a captive audience is not anything similar to a private group conducting private prayers for themselves.

The ruling in Lee v Weisman (1992) was:

The principle that government may accommodate the free exercise of religion does not supersede the fundamental limitations imposed by the Establishment Clause, which guarantees, at a minimum, that a government may not coerce anyone to support or participate in religion or its exercise, or otherwise act in a way which "establishes a [505 U.S. 577, 578] [state] religion or religious faith, or tends to do so."

pinqy, the valevictorian read a prayer at graduation and was originally denied her diploma. About as student led as you're going to get. Obvisously some think there are more restrictions than simply student led huh?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Maybe they should have prayed more BEFORE they got thrown in prison.

Fuckem

 

[pinqy]

You sir are the one who is incorrect.

Students are allowed to meet and organize and pray as long as it truly is student-led and no teachers are involved. Basically, as long as there is no appearance that the school supports or encourages it, it's allowed (neither can the school discourage it).

And a person with government endorsement/support giving a religious speech to a captive audience is not anything similar to a private group conducting private prayers for themselves.

The ruling in Lee v Weisman (1992) was:

The principle that government may accommodate the free exercise of religion does not supersede the fundamental limitations imposed by the Establishment Clause, which guarantees, at a minimum, that a government may not coerce anyone to support or participate in religion or its exercise, or otherwise act in a way which "establishes a [505 U.S. 577, 578] [state] religion or religious faith, or tends to do so."

pinqy, the valevictorian read a prayer at graduation and was originally denied her diploma. About as student led as you're going to get. Obvisously some think there are more restrictions than simply student led huh?

Student led and voluntary student participation and lack of school involvement. A graduation ceremony is an officially school-sponsored event and where the school normally reads and approves the valedictorian speech before-hand. So at the graduation, the students in the audience are required to listen/participate in a religious exercise, sponsored by the school, as a condition of attendence. That's a violation of the establishment clause. A private student meeting during lunch or recess that does not disrupt or interfere with classes and is limited to those who wish to be there is fine.

Free exercise does not mean the government can provide you with a forum.

 

[saveliberty]

Student led and voluntary student participation and lack of school involvement. A graduation ceremony is an officially school-sponsored event and where the school normally reads and approves the valedictorian speech before-hand. So at the graduation, the students in the audience are required to listen/participate in a religious exercise, sponsored by the school, as a condition of attendence. That's a violation of the establishment clause. A private student meeting during lunch or recess that does not disrupt or interfere with classes and is limited to those who wish to be there is fine.

Free exercise does not mean the government can provide you with a forum.

I disagree, the student was asked to speak at the event. The primary purpose of that speech is to impart how she achieved in education and what had meaning to her. Freedom of Speech clearly should have allowed her to take a very brief part of her speech to express that.

Thank you for point out there are two other condidtions which limit praying in school settings. That was my main point.

Also, the government IS supplying prisoners with a location and opportunity to pray.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Maybe they should have prayed more BEFORE they got thrown in prison.

Fuckem

Indeed. What good ever came from constitutional rights? Fuckem.

 

[AmyNation]

Student led and voluntary student participation and lack of school involvement. A graduation ceremony is an officially school-sponsored event and where the school normally reads and approves the valedictorian speech before-hand. So at the graduation, the students in the audience are required to listen/participate in a religious exercise, sponsored by the school, as a condition of attendence. That's a violation of the establishment clause. A private student meeting during lunch or recess that does not disrupt or interfere with classes and is limited to those who wish to be there is fine.

Free exercise does not mean the government can provide you with a forum.

I disagree, the student was asked to speak at the event. The primary purpose of that speech is to impart how she achieved in education and what had meaning to her. Freedom of Speech clearly should have allowed her to take a very brief part of her speech to express that.

Thank you for point out there are two other condidtions which limit praying in school settings. That was my main point.

Also, the government IS supplying prisoners with a location and opportunity to pray.

"Supplying" is really a stretch.

 

[Inthemiddle]

LOL, I'm sure if you asked the prisoners, they'd gladly take their praying to some other location.

 

[saveliberty]

Student led and voluntary student participation and lack of school involvement. A graduation ceremony is an officially school-sponsored event and where the school normally reads and approves the valedictorian speech before-hand. So at the graduation, the students in the audience are required to listen/participate in a religious exercise, sponsored by the school, as a condition of attendence. That's a violation of the establishment clause. A private student meeting during lunch or recess that does not disrupt or interfere with classes and is limited to those who wish to be there is fine.

Free exercise does not mean the government can provide you with a forum.

I disagree, the student was asked to speak at the event. The primary purpose of that speech is to impart how she achieved in education and what had meaning to her. Freedom of Speech clearly should have allowed her to take a very brief part of her speech to express that.

Thank you for point out there are two other condidtions which limit praying in school settings. That was my main point.

Also, the government IS supplying prisoners with a location and opportunity to pray.

"Supplying" is really a stretch.

Certainly being far more helpful than the government is to students regarding prayer.

 

[pinqy]

Student led and voluntary student participation and lack of school involvement. A graduation ceremony is an officially school-sponsored event and where the school normally reads and approves the valedictorian speech before-hand. So at the graduation, the students in the audience are required to listen/participate in a religious exercise, sponsored by the school, as a condition of attendence. That's a violation of the establishment clause. A private student meeting during lunch or recess that does not disrupt or interfere with classes and is limited to those who wish to be there is fine.

Free exercise does not mean the government can provide you with a forum.

I disagree, the student was asked to speak at the event.

Which means that anything she says can be seen as being from a representative of the school.

The primary purpose of that speech is to impart how she achieved in education and what had meaning to her. Freedom of Speech clearly should have allowed her to take a very brief part of her speech to express that.

Which it does, but not to the extent of turning it into a platform for religious expression. A mention of "God's inspirtation" or something of the sort would have been fine. A full-blown prayer is not. The difference is acknowledgement of religious belief versus religious exercise.

Also, the government IS supplying prisoners with a location and opportunity to pray.

Not quite. Since they have no choice about being in prison, it is reasonable accomodation to allow religious groups (any and all) to hold private prayer meetings. This does not require any other prisoners to attend (as a valedictorian speech does).

The Supreme Court ruled in Good News Club v Milford Central School that schools must allow religious groups to meet on the same terms as other outside groups.

Basically, there's a difference between allowing voluntary association and an endoresement. Can it reasonably be seen that a School approving a Valedictorian speech means that the School approves of the message? Sure. Can it reasonably seen that a school or prison allowing its inmates to meet privately with no endorsement/support or distinguishing between groups is an approval of the message? No.

 

[saveliberty]

More prayer might mean less prisoners. I find it interesting prayer in prisons is even an issue for liberals. They usually are bashing religion at every turn. The interest appears hypocritical.

 

[AmyNation]

More prayer might mean less prisoners. I find it interesting prayer in prisons is even an issue for liberals. They usually are bashing religion at every turn. The interest appears hypocritical.

It's the difference between voluntary and compulsory.

 

[saveliberty]

More prayer might mean less prisoners. I find it interesting prayer in prisons is even an issue for liberals. They usually are bashing religion at every turn. The interest appears hypocritical.

It's the difference between voluntary and compulsory.

Actually its between good and evil.

 

[g5000]

I'm shocked that you would think that Sunni, really, shocked.

Actually I think the issue of religious freedom in prison is a tricky one. Being in prison you lose lots of freedoms, and depending on the situation, religion is one of them.

No, you do not lose your right to practice your faith in prison.

I volunteered in jails and prisons for over a decade. Every faith was allowed to practice. Even Wiccans and a White Supremacist religion were allowed to have services.