Mormon girl comes out as gay in church. The church cuts her mic...

[Meriweather]

Now, when we give the God-Fraudsters a subsidy in the form of a tax exemption, it means that someone else has to pay a little more to keep a civilized society going.

I take it you are in favor of the Rotary Club, Scouts, etc. also paying taxes? I know in many states, Girl Scouts don't even have to pay sales tax on their Girl Scout cookies. Clubs and churches are made up of individuals who have already paid taxes on the money they donate to their clubs and churches. Who, exactly, has to pay a little more to keep civilized society going? It appears what you are advocating is that people of faith pay extra to keep society going. They are taxed once for their earnings, and yet you believe they should be taxed this second time in order to pay the taxes for the organization to which they belong.

Also keep in mind that ministers, right along with everyone else, pay taxes on their own incomes.

 

[JoeB131]

I take it you are in favor of the Rotary Club, Scouts, etc. also paying taxes? I know in many states, Girl Scouts don't even have to pay sales tax on their Girl Scout cookies. Clubs and churches are made up of individuals who have already paid taxes on the money they donate to their clubs and churches. Who, exactly, has to pay a little more to keep civilized society going? It appears what you are advocating is that people of faith pay extra to keep society going. They are taxed once for their earnings, and yet you believe they should be taxed this second time in order to pay the taxes for the organization to which they belong.

Also keep in mind that ministers, right along with everyone else, pay taxes on their own incomes.

I advocate they pay their fair share, just like the rest of us have to.

Now, if they are really doing charitable work, this isn't a problem. Just like any other business. Of course, the business of churches is scamming people out of their money, just like it was in the Middle Ages when your church sold indulgences to get people into heaven.

But I think there should be an EXTRA tax on churches that preach homophobia, because it is such an awful societal ill.

 

[Avatar4321]

As a lifelong Mormon, I find it amusing when some ignorant mute donkey who has no clue what we believe tries to tell us what we believe.

I know exactly what people in your freakish cult believe.

You think a pedophile named Joseph Smith was talking to God.

The difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra-Crispy!!!

That is what I find amusing and that is why I don't listen to the nuts. I know little about the Mormons and their beliefs, however most of them are very sincere and kind.

I've never met a bigger bunch of backstabbing cocksuckers in my life.

My favorite are the ones who claim we secretly worship the lizard people living in the tunnels under SLC

Wouldn't know, never heard that.

The thing is, when I bring up the silly things you guys do believe, you tend to hem and haw about them.

Do you really think the Native Americans were Hebrews? That seems like a pretty simple question. Because if the Book of Mormon were true, we'd have a shitload of evidence of it.

either Joseph Smith was talking to God or he was making stuff up.

Given that the Kinderhook tablets and Book of Abraham Papyri were later found to not be what he represented them as, the evidence would seem to indicate that Joseph Smith was making stuff up to scam less smart people out of their money and fuck their teenage daughters.

If you know then your accounts are libel. We were giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You don't have to be full of anger and hate. Come to Christ and give Him your burden. He will heal you.

 

[Avatar4321]

I guess this falls right in line with the common left wrong-wing way of thinking that reducing taxes on any group—letting them keep more of what was rightfully theirs all along—amounts to giving them a “subsidy”.

No, I think you misunderstand what taxes are. Taxes are the cost of living in a civilized society. Infrastructure, security, education, etc.

Now, when we give the God-Fraudsters a subsidy in the form of a tax exemption, it means that someone else has to pay a little more to keep a civilized society going.

That doesn't seem fair, given Religion really doesn't have any benefit other than making you weak-minded idiots feel better about your inevitable death.

Religious freedom is explicitly affirmed in the First Amendment. To allow government to tax religion is to allow government to interfere with religion, in a manner that is irreconcilable with this protection of religious freedom. It's notable that JoeB131 has repeatedly called for government to abuse this power in exactly the way the First Amendment was clearly meant to forbid, by allowing government to dictate what beliefs a religion may have as a condition of being allowed tax-exempt status.

Guy, the thing is, we already restrict religious freedom.

It's why a church can't perform human sacrifices or handle poisonous snakes or smoke Peyote legally. It's why members of your fucked up cult can't practice polygamy. (Amazingly, when the government told the Mormons they couldn't get Utah into the union unless they renounced polygamy, it was AMAZING how fast "God" changed his mind on the subject.

The thing is, the issue of who gets a tax exemption has already been resolved.

Creativity (religion) - Wikipedia

Yup, this cult doesn't get a tax exemption because it preaches racism.

The same should be done for churches that preach homophobia/

You think plural marriage was ended to get Utah into the union? Seriously?

If that was the case it would have ended in the 1850s

 

[Avatar4321]

I take it you are in favor of the Rotary Club, Scouts, etc. also paying taxes? I know in many states, Girl Scouts don't even have to pay sales tax on their Girl Scout cookies. Clubs and churches are made up of individuals who have already paid taxes on the money they donate to their clubs and churches. Who, exactly, has to pay a little more to keep civilized society going? It appears what you are advocating is that people of faith pay extra to keep society going. They are taxed once for their earnings, and yet you believe they should be taxed this second time in order to pay the taxes for the organization to which they belong.

Also keep in mind that ministers, right along with everyone else, pay taxes on their own incomes.

I advocate they pay their fair share, just like the rest of us have to.

Now, if they are really doing charitable work, this isn't a problem. Just like any other business. Of course, the business of churches is scamming people out of their money, just like it was in the Middle Ages when your church sold indulgences to get people into heaven.

But I think there should be an EXTRA tax on churches that preach homophobia, because it is such an awful societal ill.

Thankfully our founders had the foresight to deny the federal government authority to pass any law restricting the free exercise of religion

 

[JoeB131]

If you know then your accounts are libel. We were giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You don't have to be full of anger and hate. Come to Christ and give Him your burden. He will heal you.

You see, you confirm my point. Instead of actually ARGUING THE POINT, you appeal to emotion.

Yes, or no, were the Native Americans descended from the Hebrews? WHere are the cities mentioned in the book of Mormon?

Why did Joseph Smith lie about translating the Abraham Papyri?

Thankfully our founders had the foresight to deny the federal government authority to pass any law restricting the free exercise of religion

which has nothing to do with the tax code.

You see, the reason why you can't have 5 wives like your ancestors is the federal government DID tell your sick little cult you couldn't do polygamy any more.

God changed his mind when the government told him he had to.

 

[JoeB131]

You think plural marriage was ended to get Utah into the union? Seriously?

If that was the case it would have ended in the 1850s

It's established historical fact.

1890 Manifesto - Wikipedia

The "1890 Manifesto" (also known as the "Woodruff Manifesto" or the "Anti-polygamy Manifesto") is a statement which officially advised against any future plural marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Issued by church president Wilford Woodruff in September 1890, the Manifesto was a response to mounting anti-polygamy pressure from the United States Congress, which by 1890 had disincorporated the church, escheated its assets to the U.S. federal government, and imprisoned many prominent polygamist Mormons. Upon its issuance, the LDS Church in conference accepted Woodruff's Manifesto as "authoritative and binding."

The Manifesto was a dramatic turning point in the history of the LDS Church. It advised against church members from entering into any marriage prohibited by the law of the land, and made it possible for Utah to become a U.S. state. Nevertheless, even after the Manifesto, the church quietly continued to perform a small number of plural marriages in the United States, Mexico, and Canada,[1][2] thus necessitating a Second Manifesto during U.S. congressional hearings in 1904.

Now, when the government started cracking down on Churches that were advocating racism, guess what happened?

Yup!

Black people and priesthood (LDS) - Wikipedia

On June 8, 1978, the First Presidency released to the press an official declaration, now a part of Doctrine and Covenants, which contained the following statement:

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the church may receive the Holy Priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that follows there from, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.[45]

You see, it's amazing how quickly God changes his mind when you threaten the money-making end of your cult.

I promise you, if the Feds revoked your tax exemptions for your homophobia, you will be fucking amazed how fast your current Prophet has a heart to heart with God and they mutually decide God is okay with the gays.

 

[JoeB131]

Thankfully our founders had the foresight to deny the federal government authority to pass any law restricting the free exercise of religion

Not really.... just ask the polygamists in your cult.

 

[Papageorgio]

That is what I find amusing and that is why I don't listen to the nuts. I know little about the Mormons and their beliefs, however most of them are very sincere and kind.

I've never met a bigger bunch of backstabbing cocksuckers in my life.

People find what they are looking for. I find most people are honest and trustworthy, but that is just my outlook and attitude. You seem to be more cynical and pessimistic, and that is what you find.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you know then your accounts are libel. We were giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You don't have to be full of anger and hate. Come to Christ and give Him your burden. He will heal you.

You see, you confirm my point. Instead of actually ARGUING THE POINT, you appeal to emotion.

Yes, or no, were the Native Americans descended from the Hebrews? WHere are the cities mentioned in the book of Mormon?

Why did Joseph Smith lie about translating the Abraham Papyri?

Thankfully our founders had the foresight to deny the federal government authority to pass any law restricting the free exercise of religion

which has nothing to do with the tax code.

You see, the reason why you can't have 5 wives like your ancestors is the federal government DID tell your sick little cult you couldn't do polygamy any more.

God changed his mind when the government told him he had to.

The tax code are laws passed by congress. You are advocating using the tax code to punish churches for preaching something you don't like. That violates specifically the free exercise clause and free speech clause.

I'm not here to argue every thing you get wrong. Especially since I've done it multiple times only to be ignored. You can find accurate information without much effort.

If you want to destroy yourself and live in bitterness I cannot stop you. I can only invite you to turn to Christ, be healed, and stop trying to fight His church. If you come to Him He will bless you

 

[JoeB131]

The tax code are laws passed by congress. You are advocating using the tax code to punish churches for preaching something you don't like. That violates specifically the free exercise clause and free speech clause.

again, that horse already got out of the barn when the government revoked the tax exemptions of all the churches - including yours - that advocated segregation and racism. The question isn't "Can it?" but "Should it?"

yes, yes, they should.

I'm not here to argue every thing you get wrong. Especially since I've done it multiple times only to be ignored. You can find accurate information without much effort.

So just one simpleone. How did Joseph Smith get the Abraham Papyri wrong? If he was talking to God and all, how did he mistake a Ptolemaic era funerary scroll for an account of Abraham living in Egypt?

 

[JoeB131]

People find what they are looking for. I find most people are honest and trustworthy, but that is just my outlook and attitude. You seem to be more cynical and pessimistic, and that is what you find.

I wasn't looking for anything. I didn't even know what a Mormon was when I first encountered them in 1983, much less the batshit crazy stuff they believe.

 

[Avatar4321]

Thankfully our founders had the foresight to deny the federal government authority to pass any law restricting the free exercise of religion

Not really.... just ask the polygamists in your cult.

And that decision will likely be overturned on multiple grounds when the polygamist movement challenges it again.

 

[Avatar4321]

The tax code are laws passed by congress. You are advocating using the tax code to punish churches for preaching something you don't like. That violates specifically the free exercise clause and free speech clause.

again, that horse already got out of the barn when the government revoked the tax exemptions of all the churches - including yours - that advocated segregation and racism. The question isn't "Can it?" but "Should it?"

yes, yes, they should.

I'm not here to argue every thing you get wrong. Especially since I've done it multiple times only to be ignored. You can find accurate information without much effort.

So just one simpleone. How did Joseph Smith get the Abraham Papyri wrong? If he was talking to God and all, how did he mistake a Ptolemaic era funerary scroll for an account of Abraham living in Egypt?

He didn't. You'd know this if you did any in depth research into the matter and if most of the papyra hadnt been destroyed in the great Chicago fire.

 

[BreezeWood]

And that decision will likely be overturned on multiple grounds when the polygamist movement challenges it again.

and you claim not to have crucified a child for expressing her personal concerns by some for a controversial subject yet we are subjected by you to listen to your position on an equally controversial subject one of which just as many would be willing to consider the same as the one you denied the child. for those that do understand the 1st century and that of the life of Jesus, you are a pathetic example of the Times true meaning.

 

[JoeB131]

And that decision will likely be overturned on multiple grounds when the polygamist movement challenges it again.

That point went over your head...

The governmetn said, "Polygamy is bad."

Your prophet said, "Polygamy is God's Will!"

The Government said, "We are going to screw with you until you put an end to polygamy!!!"

Your prophet said, "Hey, I just had a talk with God, and he says Polygamy is bad now. Praise Jesus! What a miracle."

He didn't. You'd know this if you did any in depth research into the matter and if most of the papyra hadnt been destroyed in the great Chicago fire.

Um, no, it wasn't. in fact, the papyri are in the NY Metropolitan Museum.

Book of Abraham - Wikipedia

Original manuscripts of the Book of Abraham, microfilmed in 1966 by Jerald Tanner, show portions of the Joseph Smith Papyri and their purported translations into the Book of Abraham. Ritner concludes, contrary to the LDS position, due to the microfilms being published prior to the rediscovery of the Joseph Smith Papyri, that "it is not true that 'no eyewitness account of the translation survives'", that the Book of Abraham is "confirmed as a perhaps well-meaning, but erroneous invention by Joseph Smith",

 

[tyroneweaver]

As a lifelong Mormon, I find it amusing when some ignorant mute donkey who has no clue what we believe tries to tell us what we believe.

I know exactly what people in your freakish cult believe.

You think a pedophile named Joseph Smith was talking to God.

The difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra-Crispy!!!

That is what I find amusing and that is why I don't listen to the nuts. I know little about the Mormons and their beliefs, however most of them are very sincere and kind.

I've never met a bigger bunch of backstabbing cocksuckers in my life.

My favorite are the ones who claim we secretly worship the lizard people living in the tunnels under SLC

Wouldn't know, never heard that.

The thing is, when I bring up the silly things you guys do believe, you tend to hem and haw about them.

Do you really think the Native Americans were Hebrews? That seems like a pretty simple question. Because if the Book of Mormon were true, we'd have a shitload of evidence of it.

either Joseph Smith was talking to God or he was making stuff up.

Given that the Kinderhook tablets and Book of Abraham Papyri were later found to not be what he represented them as, the evidence would seem to indicate that Joseph Smith was making stuff up to scam less smart people out of their money and fuck their teenage daughters.

Cant help but notice you like to knight jump and hopover to subjects you feel comfortable with

 

[Papageorgio]

People find what they are looking for. I find most people are honest and trustworthy, but that is just my outlook and attitude. You seem to be more cynical and pessimistic, and that is what you find.

I wasn't looking for anything. I didn't even know what a Mormon was when I first encountered them in 1983, much less the batshit crazy stuff they believe.

It's the law of attraction, I notice that in all most all your relationships that you have posted on the board. You like being the poor victim. Anyone with a brain can see that, unfortunately, I don't think you have one.

 

[Avatar4321]

And that decision will likely be overturned on multiple grounds when the polygamist movement challenges it again.

and you claim not to have crucified a child for expressing her personal concerns by some for a controversial subject yet we are subjected by you to listen to your position on an equally controversial subject one of which just as many would be willing to consider the same as the one you denied the child. for those that do understand the 1st century and that of the life of Jesus, you are a pathetic example of the Times true meaning.

I would fully expect anyone getting up in fast and testimony meeting and proclaiming they think they should practice polygamy to also have their mic cut. It's not the forum to raise such issues.

And no I don't think interrupting an inappropriate and potentially embarrassing public situation is comparable to putting someone to death in one of the most brutal and vicious means ever devised by mankind. I'm kind of funny like that.

I also happen to be familiar with the case law that has occurred in the past 150 years, particularly the recent case law legalizing so called same sex marriage as well as the balancing tests now used in religious liberty cases. And I know they completely undermine the reasoning given that allowed the federal government to outlaw polygamy back in 1890s. I also know that polygamist are trying to overturn those laws. It's a matter of time. Especially as public opinion polls say people oppose polygamy less.

So I can't possibly see how you think the case law will stand long term

 

[Avatar4321]

And that decision will likely be overturned on multiple grounds when the polygamist movement challenges it again.

That point went over your head...

The governmetn said, "Polygamy is bad."

Your prophet said, "Polygamy is God's Will!"

The Government said, "We are going to screw with you until you put an end to polygamy!!!"

Your prophet said, "Hey, I just had a talk with God, and he says Polygamy is bad now. Praise Jesus! What a miracle."

He didn't. You'd know this if you did any in depth research into the matter and if most of the papyra hadnt been destroyed in the great Chicago fire.

Um, no, it wasn't. in fact, the papyri are in the NY Metropolitan Museum.

Book of Abraham - Wikipedia

Original manuscripts of the Book of Abraham, microfilmed in 1966 by Jerald Tanner, show portions of the Joseph Smith Papyri and their purported translations into the Book of Abraham. Ritner concludes, contrary to the LDS position, due to the microfilms being published prior to the rediscovery of the Joseph Smith Papyri, that "it is not true that 'no eyewitness account of the translation survives'", that the Book of Abraham is "confirmed as a perhaps well-meaning, but erroneous invention by Joseph Smith",

That's not how the conversation went

Gov: You can't practice your religion

Saints: We have first amendment rights

Supreme court: No you don't

To the Lord: You commanded us to practice plural marriage and obey the laws of the land. Our appeals have been denied so we can't do both, what should we do?

LORD: Obedience to the laws of the land are more important. We have work to do.

Saints: No problem.

Note that neither mine summation nor your caricature had Utah becoming a state in the conversation.

But this is precisely why we need continuing revelation. Situations change, challenges arise, we need instruction from Heaven on how to deal with them.

The Lord commands and revokes at His pleasure. He commanded Noah to build an ark, we aren't commanded that. He commanded the Israelites to follow the law of Moses until Christ came. At one point Peter James and John were commanded not to share what happened on the mount of transfiguration. Later they were commanded to share it.

At one point the Lord commanded the gospel to go to only the house of Israel. Later he commanded us to go to the gentiles.

In our days he commanded us to gather in Ohio. We were kicked out. He commanded us to gather in Missouri, we were kicked out. He commanded us to gather in Illinois. We were kicked out. We were commanded to gather in the rockies. From there we were given new commandments and the Lord will continue to command as He sees fit. Hopefully we will obey