More than 1,400 millionaires paid no U.S. income taxes in 2009, according to the IRS

[Big Fitz]

Anyone who wants capital gains taxed at lower rates than wages/salaries needs to justify it.

OH...MY...GOD

Seriously?

Really?

What in your mind makes a federally determine tax rate on invested capital equivalent to...or in any way related to...a person's market determined salary?

Stated differently, what in the hell are you talking about?

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future? It seems your problem is not that both profit, but that the investor profits MORE. Would that be envy rearing it's ugly head? Shall we factor in the speed you can lose it all into the equation too, to counteract how efficiently an investor makes money?

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor? How much is his few tons of coal a day worth to the greater common good than say an ebil rich person investing a few hundred thousand in a couple of high risk startups?

(BTW, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, GE, Westinghouse, Standard Oil, Apple, Microsoft, Bell, and all other companies once were startups too.)

 

[Katzndogz]

No leftist wants the rich to pay a fair share. They want the rich to be able to KEEP what the left considers fair while the government take everything else.

 

[Big Fitz]

No leftist wants the rich to pay a fair share. They want the rich to be able to KEEP what the left considers fair while the government take everything else.

and the rich obey what they say. It's not really about money. It's about power. If they can reach the same point with a tax code as they can with a gun to the temple, it's less messy and traumatic.

The control's the same. It's the old saw "I will give you the world, just kneel down and worship me." in different trappings.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

OH...MY...GOD

Seriously?

Really?

What in your mind makes a federally determine tax rate on invested capital equivalent to...or in any way related to...a person's market determined salary?

Stated differently, what in the hell are you talking about?

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future?

as a trader, i like the way you think. i should pay less tax than everybody else. heck, half the time i trade in my underwear. paying less than someone punching a clock is cool.

ok, i'm just kidding. no one is forcing me to trade.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

OH...MY...GOD

Seriously?

Really?

What in your mind makes a federally determine tax rate on invested capital equivalent to...or in any way related to...a person's market determined salary?

Stated differently, what in the hell are you talking about?

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future? It seems your problem is not that both profit, but that the investor profits MORE. Would that be envy rearing it's ugly head? Shall we factor in the speed you can lose it all into the equation too, to counteract how efficiently an investor makes money?

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor? How much is his few tons of coal a day worth to the greater common good than say an ebil rich person investing a few hundred thousand in a couple of high risk startups?

(BTW, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, GE, Westinghouse, Standard Oil, Apple, Microsoft, Bell, and all other companies once were startups too.)

Risk and reward is lost on Marxists.... to them, some guy toiling over a lump of coal is taking all the risks.

 

[Wiseacre]

Show me the ultra rich guy who is willing to cap his tax deductions to a maximum of 5% of his AGI. Sure, raise my taxes on my income, AFTER I've put 95% of it in a tax free foundation somewhere.

 

[NYcarbineer]

OH...MY...GOD

Seriously?

Really?

What in your mind makes a federally determine tax rate on invested capital equivalent to...or in any way related to...a person's market determined salary?

Stated differently, what in the hell are you talking about?

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future? It seems your problem is not that both profit, but that the investor profits MORE. Would that be envy rearing it's ugly head? Shall we factor in the speed you can lose it all into the equation too, to counteract how efficiently an investor makes money?

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor? How much is his few tons of coal a day worth to the greater common good than say an ebil rich person investing a few hundred thousand in a couple of high risk startups?

(BTW, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, GE, Westinghouse, Standard Oil, Apple, Microsoft, Bell, and all other companies once were startups too.)

What rich guy puts his entire life and livelihood on the line when he makes an investment?

 

[Big Fitz]

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future?

as a trader, i like the way you think. i should pay less tax than everybody else. heck, half the time i trade in my underwear. paying less than someone punching a clock is cool.

ok, i'm just kidding. no one is forcing me to trade.

Thanks, but I'm not saying that. what I am saying is that both the coal miner and the investor are taking risks but of different kinds. Neither should be penalized for the speed in which they make money, or the amount they make.

A flat tax is for everyone in every way they earn. Be it sweat of the brow or risk of their coin, there is no difference. He who makes more, with a flat percentage PAYS more. If he wants to pay less, he should MAKE less. No one should begrudge them their hard HONEST work. (Thieves and crooks go without saying)

Everyone is always looking for that advantage... that sweet spot... in which to get ahead of the competition or maximize their profit as to get more for less work. Coal miners no longer have to pull half ton carts on a donkey out of mines while swinging a pick, shovel or hammer. They have machines and quick conveyors to do the work. This has made them far more skilled and profitable to their own paycheck as well as the owners for what they can provide. In the same way, day trading, mutual funds and electronic systems make trading more profitable for that stock broker.

That said, the coal miner risks their life underground physically, but his earnings are as secure as long as people need the product he pulls from the ground and the management doesn't screw up or the law stops him. The investor on the other hand faces financial ruin instead of physical. His income is not as secure, and is just as easy to destroy as the miner's life is.

You may ascribe different values to these risks if you want. But they are risks none the less. Just like football, it doesn't matter how many yards, turnovers, time of possession you may have. In the end, the game is still won by points on the board, and that is how we should judge taxation. You made it, pay your taxes, regardless of the method in which it came to you.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No leftist wants the rich to pay a fair share. They want the rich to be able to KEEP what the left considers fair while the government take everything else.

You're an idiot. The Right wants to cut capital gains and corporate taxes to zero, while letting the people who actually work for a living pay the taxes.

 

[Big Fitz]

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future? It seems your problem is not that both profit, but that the investor profits MORE. Would that be envy rearing it's ugly head? Shall we factor in the speed you can lose it all into the equation too, to counteract how efficiently an investor makes money?

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor? How much is his few tons of coal a day worth to the greater common good than say an ebil rich person investing a few hundred thousand in a couple of high risk startups?

(BTW, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, GE, Westinghouse, Standard Oil, Apple, Microsoft, Bell, and all other companies once were startups too.)

Risk and reward is lost on Marxists.... to them, some guy toiling over a lump of coal is taking all the risks.

Unless it is THEIR dollar.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future? It seems your problem is not that both profit, but that the investor profits MORE. Would that be envy rearing it's ugly head? Shall we factor in the speed you can lose it all into the equation too, to counteract how efficiently an investor makes money?

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor? How much is his few tons of coal a day worth to the greater common good than say an ebil rich person investing a few hundred thousand in a couple of high risk startups?

(BTW, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, GE, Westinghouse, Standard Oil, Apple, Microsoft, Bell, and all other companies once were startups too.)

What rich guy puts his entire life and livelihood on the line when he makes an investment?

not me. i use about 5%, or less, of my portfolio for each trade. some new traders, who don't have much to trade with, will use it all. you have to remember that when you don't have much money to trade, your profits get eaten with commissions (if you're making tiny trades). but, that's all some people can afford to trade.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Carbinated one is one of USMB's resident class warriors.

For wanting capital gains to be taxed the SAME as wages? Explain that.

Here's you're explanation:

Capital gains taxes should be ELIMINATED... COMPLETELY.

And whose taxes do you want to raise to replace the revenue you lose from that?

Your own?

 

[Big Fitz]

Simple. Time.

A person investing in the stock market can make as much in one day as a coal miner can working in one year. In fact, this should be the standard we use for taxing. The longer it took you to create the money, the lower the tax rate.

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future? It seems your problem is not that both profit, but that the investor profits MORE. Would that be envy rearing it's ugly head? Shall we factor in the speed you can lose it all into the equation too, to counteract how efficiently an investor makes money?

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor? How much is his few tons of coal a day worth to the greater common good than say an ebil rich person investing a few hundred thousand in a couple of high risk startups?

(BTW, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, GE, Westinghouse, Standard Oil, Apple, Microsoft, Bell, and all other companies once were startups too.)

What rich guy puts his entire life and livelihood on the line when he makes an investment?

Let's see....

Rockafeller did
Edison did
Tesla did
Westinghouse did
Krok did
Dave Thomas did.
Colonel Sanders did.
Carnegie did


Most of the richest men and women in the world who started up a company did.

 

[Big Fitz]

For wanting capital gains to be taxed the SAME as wages? Explain that.

Here's you're explanation:

Capital gains taxes should be ELIMINATED... COMPLETELY.

And whose taxes do you want to raise to replace the revenue you lose from that?

Your own?

Cut out unconstitutional spending and you don't need that money.

Problem solved.

 

[Big Fitz]

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart. So who's taking a risk here with their future? It seems your problem is not that both profit, but that the investor profits MORE. Would that be envy rearing it's ugly head? Shall we factor in the speed you can lose it all into the equation too, to counteract how efficiently an investor makes money?

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor? How much is his few tons of coal a day worth to the greater common good than say an ebil rich person investing a few hundred thousand in a couple of high risk startups?

(BTW, Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, GE, Westinghouse, Standard Oil, Apple, Microsoft, Bell, and all other companies once were startups too.)

What rich guy puts his entire life and livelihood on the line when he makes an investment?

not me. i use about 5%, or less, of my portfolio for each trade. some new traders, who don't have much to trade with, will use it all. you have to remember that when you don't have much money to trade, your profits get eaten with commissions (if you're making tiny trades). but, that's all some people can afford to trade.

True, traders and previously monied investors don't. They understand that their resource IS their money and don't take stupid risks. They work their money to make money.

That's why capital gains may as well be income and taxed the same as income.

 

[DontBeStupid]

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart.

True. He can only lose his life.

So who's taking a risk here with their future?

See above.

Additionally, the only traders who lose their entire fortune in one day are the bad ones.

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor?

They both make none.

All fun aside, it is pretty clear how little you think of people who actually work for a living. That's fine. You're entitled to whatever twisted opinion you want. But the rest of us know that this country does not move forward by punishing working class Americans.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

Here's you're explanation:

Capital gains taxes should be ELIMINATED... COMPLETELY.

And whose taxes do you want to raise to replace the revenue you lose from that?

Your own?

Cut out unconstitutional spending and you don't need that money.

Problem solved.

do you have any confidence that either party (save maybe paul) will do that in your lifetime?

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

since i am actually a trader, and most in this thread probably aren't, does that mean my opinion means more?

 

[Big Fitz]

But a coal miner cannot lose his entire fortune in that same day, Cantbesmart.

True. He can only lose his life.

So who's taking a risk here with their future?

See above.

Additionally, the only traders who lose their entire fortune in one day are the bad ones.

BTW, how many more jobs does a coal miner make as compared to an investor?

They both make none.

All fun aside, it is pretty clear how little you think of people who actually work for a living. That's fine. You're entitled to whatever twisted opinion you want. But the rest of us know that this country does not move forward by punishing working class Americans.

You are a short sighted little man... and I use the term 'man' loosely.

 

[Big Fitz]

since i am actually a trader, and most in this thread probably aren't, does that mean my opinion means more?

Absolutely not. I'm glad to hear your input. Wish I could do your line of work, but I'm not skilled or funded in a way I can at this time of my life.