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The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didnt construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didnt revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty youre talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade.
If you want to know where the masses are worst off, its exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system. --Milton Friedman
CARPE DIEM: Milton Friedman Responds to Obama
Every re-distributive economy is an inhumane shithole, every single one of them. It's so fucking bad they have to build walls to keep anybody with a brain from fleeing. But that's the exact system embraced and adored by the "American" Left. They love a system that has a 100% Guaranteed fail rate and while they're living in the #1 economy in the world.
Insanity. Absolute fucking insanity.
This assumes that the essential argument is between free markets and socialism. It's not. Neither exists. Here is what does exist. A partnership between the private sector and government. Your rant doesn't explain what's good about things like the Hoover Dam and the national Interstate.
The private sector craves modern industrial infrastructure and a legal system to protect their property and enforce their contracts and [things like] FDIC insurance to protect their risk. The private sector lives off subsidies and bailouts. Profit makers crave government help, that's why the USA has built the largest lobbying system in the world.
You seem to be making a point around which there is very little controversy, namely that a successful economy must find a way to channel rather than block selfishness. Nobody is arguing for socialism. You've been captured by a talk radio straw man. We're trying to figure out how to build the Hoover Dam when no single market actor can afford to do it. We're trying to appraise the value of the government investment in commercial aviation and computer technology - and the level which capital depends on the modern industrial state, supplied by the public, made possible by taxation. Also your rant doesn't draw distinctions between the state controlled, re-distributive economy of Denmark - where people are free, happy and well educated - and China, the unfree place with whom the glorious American private sector does the most business.
Capitalism is heavily dependent on these freedom-hating nations for labor and raw material. WalMart and the American retail sector would not exist without communist China. Capitalism despises freedom in the following way: a free middle class brings terribly high labor costs, and they tend to impose a higher regulatory burden because they don't want corporations polluting their water. Investment Capital thrives in freedom-hating parts of the world. Do you know how much higher the returns are with sweatshop labor. The point of post-Reagan capitalism was to make it easier for American investment capital to be partnered with freedom-hating nations who could supply ultra cheap labor and ultra cheap raw material. This suggests that the whole issue of freedom is complicated. Your rant doesn't help us understand any of the interesting stuff.
Frank, your essential premise about incentivizing productivity by letting people realize the highest possible returns on their efforts is not a new idea. We all understand that if you pay people not to work, they won't work. You haven't addressed any of the complicated stuff though. The NYC Subway system and the fucking Brooklyn Bridge was made possible by [things like] government and taxation - by private/public partnerships. Your rant doesn't draw any distinctions. The technology that fueled the 80s consumer electronics boom was hugely dependent on the Cold War Pentagon and NASA. Your rant doesn't explain what is supplied purely by the private sector and what is supplied by Washington. It sounds well-meaning but extremely un-educated. You can do better. You have done better.
People who worked for government died for you in WWII. Ronald Reagan's father was saved by an FDR work program paid for by higher taxes on the wealthy. It was - at the time - understood as an investment in the American people. And it paid dividends in the form of a great president - the 40th. Rather than demonizing government indiscriminately, at least try to understand what government provides that is useful, and what it supplies that isn't. Understand both sides of the equation. Join the debate good man! Say something interesting.
You're so wrong it's impossible to talk to you.
The argument isn't for "no government" I don't know where you get such stupid ideas, it must come from being an Obamaroid.
You don't know what a "free enterprise system" is, so how you think you can comment is, well, it's really funny; it's like listening to someone pretend to know a foreign language, like Pee Wee Hermann speaking French.
Government and infrastructure are essential parts of a Free Enterprise System, we don't rely on them as the engine of economic growth.
Did that help?
Sorry, but the American left does not want an "all-powerful instrument for and arbitrator of fairness via authoritarian control".
You guys are fucking retards living in a delusional world of vapid lies.
Government expansion is at disagreement with you.....
The government has NOT fucking expanded under Obama. Keep touting that myth, idiot. People aren't going to just believe your utter bullshit.
I dont want to blow your cover...........
So I guess the gov't just pulled the money to do all those things out of its ass???
None of the things you listed would be possilbe w/o the PRIVATE SECTOR.... which supplies capital for the gov't to build said projects.
One more point you fail to address..... there are also FAILED businesses an every one of those "gov't supplied highways".... how ya gonna splain that??
Let's stay on Freidmans point.....
The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus"
Both the moon landings and atomic bomb came from government bureaus
No they didn't dummy...
Those ideas were manifested by the individual not the government.... The government hired them as independent contractors.
Government expansion is at disagreement with you.....
The government has NOT fucking expanded under Obama. Keep touting that myth, idiot. People aren't going to just believe your utter bullshit.
Do you have any idea how many stories are out there in reference to expansion..............
Thanks for playing .................
We wont mention the pay raises
DUHHHHH! Now can we do someting about the physical and mental infrastructure of the country falling down around our ears after 30 years of voodoo? Could the "no compromise, un-American GOP" (TIME)possibly pass a GOP style Jobs Act that would add 2% to growth? Whatta bunch of a-holes and ignorant dupes....
Let's stay on Freidmans point.....
The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus"
Both the moon landings and atomic bomb came from government bureaus
No they didn't dummy...
Those ideas were manifested by the individual not the government.... The government hired them as independent contractors.
Wrong again. Both ideas came from the government and were conceived and managed by government bureaucracies
The government, by law, is not allowed to compete directly with the private sector. The government establishes the need, writes the parameters of what it needs then recruits the private sector to build it.
It was government (taxpayer ) investment that built the atomic bomb and got us to the moon.......not the private sector
Government expansion is at disagreement with you.....
The government has NOT fucking expanded under Obama. Keep touting that myth, idiot. People aren't going to just believe your utter bullshit.
Do you have any idea how many stories are out there in reference to expansion..............
Thanks for playing .................
We wont mention the pay raises
I suppose murder, death, starvation, culls and purges are the progressives ideal utopia...
As long as we starve together !
What made this country once great is the understanding on individualism. Individuals built this nation not a bunch of idiots in government.... The founders gave us liberty and an opportunity to create a nation - we did that - now our government wants to take it all away because it's not fair to some....
Guess what? life isn't fair - there is no such thing as equal or fair.... The idea of fairness and equality is a total pipe dream....
Look at the Olympics - some individuals are better than others - life is the same way and we just cant hand out blue ribbons to everyone....
Then the progressives claim those who are successful are greedy? hell no - those who loathe them are the greedy ones - they want what they have worked hard for.....
The government has NOT fucking expanded under Obama. Keep touting that myth, idiot. People aren't going to just believe your utter bullshit.
Do you have any idea how many stories are out there in reference to expansion..............
Thanks for playing .................
We wont mention the pay raises
There are stories out there because idiots like you think you can sway people with outright lies. People like YOU are creating the stories. People with a desire for things to be something they're not, so you can somehow feel justified.
Show us where the government has expanded like you're talking about. I can show you that the number of government workers has been dropping quite a bit under the Obama administration.
Henry Ford had workers on the line, genius.
The government has NOT fucking expanded under Obama. Keep touting that myth, idiot. People aren't going to just believe your utter bullshit.
Do you have any idea how many stories are out there in reference to expansion..............
Thanks for playing .................
We wont mention the pay raises
There are stories out there because idiots like you think you can sway people with outright lies. People like YOU are creating the stories. People with a desire for things to be something they're not, so you can somehow feel justified.
Show us where the government has expanded like you're talking about. I can show you that the number of government workers has been dropping quite a bit under the Obama administration.
Do you have any idea how many stories are out there in reference to expansion..............
Thanks for playing .................
We wont mention the pay raises
There are stories out there because idiots like you think you can sway people with outright lies. People like YOU are creating the stories. People with a desire for things to be something they're not, so you can somehow feel justified.
Show us where the government has expanded like you're talking about. I can show you that the number of government workers has been dropping quite a bit under the Obama administration.
The Republicans want smaller government, smaller government means less government workers. The George W. Bush administration created Homeland Security, a massive expansion of government. Facts and recent history are why the right needs to make up stories - reality gets in the way of their ideology.
Let's stay on Freidmans point.....
The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus"
Both the moon landings and atomic bomb came from government bureaus
No they didn't dummy...
Those ideas were manifested by the individual not the government.... The government hired them as independent contractors.
Wrong again. Both ideas came from the government and were conceived and managed by government bureaucracies
The government, by law, is not allowed to compete directly with the private sector. The government establishes the need, writes the parameters of what it needs then recruits the private sector to build it.
It was government (taxpayer ) investment that built the atomic bomb and got us to the moon.......not the private sector
The only thing Milton Friedman is bitch-slapping are the worms. The sonofabitch has been dead for seven years.The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didnt construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didnt revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty youre talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade.
If you want to know where the masses are worst off, its exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system. --Milton Friedman
CARPE DIEM: Milton Friedman Responds to Obama
Every re-distributive economy is an inhumane shithole, every single one of them. It's so fucking bad they have to build walls to keep anybody with a brain from fleeing. But that's the exact system embraced and adored by the "American" Left. They love a system that has a 100% Guaranteed fail rate and while they're living in the #1 economy in the world.
Insanity. Absolute fucking insanity.
Yes her book was an eye opener, capitalist imperialism is pretty hideous with its clothes off.The only thing Milton Friedman is bitch-slapping are the worms. The sonofabitch has been dead for seven years.The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didnt construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didnt revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty youre talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade.
If you want to know where the masses are worst off, its exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system. --Milton Friedman
CARPE DIEM: Milton Friedman Responds to Obama
Every re-distributive economy is an inhumane shithole, every single one of them. It's so fucking bad they have to build walls to keep anybody with a brain from fleeing. But that's the exact system embraced and adored by the "American" Left. They love a system that has a 100% Guaranteed fail rate and while they're living in the #1 economy in the world.
Insanity. Absolute fucking insanity.
Friedman's crowning achievement is having influenced Pinochet's destruction of the Chilean middle class and transforming that nation into a totalitarian police state. Now his "supply side, trickle down" scam, embraced by the Grade-B actor and corporatist puppet, Ronald Reagan, has done its damage right here.
There are two categories of American who are favorably disposed toward Friedman (and the Chicago Boys) policies. They are a) wealthy corporatists, and b) ignorant, brainwashed fools.
Anyone who wishes to learn the truth about Milton Friedman should read Naomi Klein's excellent book, The Shock Doctrine. (There also is a video version) Very educational!
Friedman is dead, quite a trick.
Which is funny, as he makes you morons look pathetic from the grave.Friedman is dead, quite a trick.
I don't know how many fucking times you have to be told. George W. Bush is not a Conservative. He is a Republican with liberal tendencies.Do you have any idea how many stories are out there in reference to expansion..............
Thanks for playing .................
We wont mention the pay raises
There are stories out there because idiots like you think you can sway people with outright lies. People like YOU are creating the stories. People with a desire for things to be something they're not, so you can somehow feel justified.
Show us where the government has expanded like you're talking about. I can show you that the number of government workers has been dropping quite a bit under the Obama administration.
The Republicans want smaller government, smaller government means less government workers. The George W. Bush administration created Homeland Security, a massive expansion of government. Facts and recent history are why the right needs to make up stories - reality gets in the way of their ideology.
