McCain's "War Hero" Status in Extreme Doubt. Trump Was Right ?

[nat4900]

Ouroborus........

 

[Syriusly]

It comes down to a few handful of vet's disgruntled over McCain's viewpoints of the POW/MIA issue. McCain sided with the National League of Families and the Pentagon authorities on the issue. The League of Families represented the immediate relatives of those missing in Southeast Asia. The bulk of them had relatives that were BNR's, body not recovered. Those were persons who where believed to have been killed in action but whose bodies could not be recovered due to circumstances, but whose death was testified to with a certain level of certainty by fellow American witnesses. A prime example would be an aircraft exploding on a clear day over water and seen by other aircraft crew to have been unsurvivable and gone down with no parachutes seen. Subsequent searches for debris were unsuccessful, hence, body not recovered.
The League of Families, Pentagon and McCain believed those promoting the idea that living American POW/MIA's continued to be held in Vietnam and Laos were simply scams to collect funds for "rescues" and "private searches" and persons honestly hoodwinked by the hucksters. McCain was not the only former POW or veteran that felt this way, including the Vietnam Veterans of America, but he was certainly the most visible and the issue for the majority of former POW's was one they preferred to stay away from.
McCain's biggest downfall with veterans came when two founders of the Rolling Thunder POW/MIA annual motorcycle rally, a group with a huge audience joined with the anti McCain supporters of GW Bush and began the swift boating of McCain during the primaries, particularly in South Carolina. From there it just mushroomed into a sort of small cottage industry.
What is seen today are the remnants of that long ago chapter in dirty politics and malicious trickery in American politics.

we swift boated Kerry's ass but not McCain that i remember

Kerry had it coming.

Absolutely nothing to do with McCain or Trump, a non veteran disparaging the military service of a veteran.

Trump did spend 4 years in, and graduated from a military high school.

Attending a 'military high school' does not make someone a veteran- and especially not a combat veteran.

John McCain- volunteered for combat- was horribly wounded as a result of that combat, tortured and served our country with distinction.
Donald Trump- volunteered to make lots of money- and avoided combat. And there is nothing wrong with that- Clinton did, Bush did- but if someone is going to call out a combat vet on his service, it is perfectly apt to point out who volunteered for combat duty- and who did not.

 

[Camp]

It comes down to a few handful of vet's disgruntled over McCain's viewpoints of the POW/MIA issue. McCain sided with the National League of Families and the Pentagon authorities on the issue. The League of Families represented the immediate relatives of those missing in Southeast Asia. The bulk of them had relatives that were BNR's, body not recovered. Those were persons who where believed to have been killed in action but whose bodies could not be recovered due to circumstances, but whose death was testified to with a certain level of certainty by fellow American witnesses. A prime example would be an aircraft exploding on a clear day over water and seen by other aircraft crew to have been unsurvivable and gone down with no parachutes seen. Subsequent searches for debris were unsuccessful, hence, body not recovered.
The League of Families, Pentagon and McCain believed those promoting the idea that living American POW/MIA's continued to be held in Vietnam and Laos were simply scams to collect funds for "rescues" and "private searches" and persons honestly hoodwinked by the hucksters. McCain was not the only former POW or veteran that felt this way, including the Vietnam Veterans of America, but he was certainly the most visible and the issue for the majority of former POW's was one they preferred to stay away from.
McCain's biggest downfall with veterans came when two founders of the Rolling Thunder POW/MIA annual motorcycle rally, a group with a huge audience joined with the anti McCain supporters of GW Bush and began the swift boating of McCain during the primaries, particularly in South Carolina. From there it just mushroomed into a sort of small cottage industry.
What is seen today are the remnants of that long ago chapter in dirty politics and malicious trickery in American politics.

we swift boated Kerry's ass but not McCain that i remember

Kerry had it coming.

Absolutely nothing to do with McCain or Trump, a non veteran disparaging the military service of a veteran.

Trump did spend 4 years in, and graduated from a military high school.

Attending a 'military high school' does not make someone a veteran- and especially not a combat veteran.

John McCain- volunteered for combat- was horribly wounded as a result of that combat, tortured and served our country with distinction.
Donald Trump- volunteered to make lots of money- and avoided combat. And there is nothing wrong with that- Clinton did, Bush did- but if someone is going to call out a combat vet on his service, it is perfectly apt to point out who volunteered for combat duty- and who did not.

The movie Toy Soldiers comes to mind.

 

[Claudette]

McCain wasn't a war hero. He was a POW who survived like countless other POW's have survived.

He brokered his survival into politics and Congress where he's been ever since.

He's a hero my ass.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And that is your opinion, Claudette. Most veterans will disagree with you. imo, that is far more important than what you think.

ADDRESS TO THE ARIZONA VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS VFW STATE CONVENTION - Speeches - United States Senator John McCain

McCain Remarks at the VFW Convention

 

[Syriusly]

McCain wasn't a war hero. He was a POW who survived like countless other POW's have survived.

He brokered his survival into politics and Congress where he's been ever since.

He's a hero my ass.

Pretty much the entire Congress after WW2 consisted of men who 'brokered' their survival into politics and Congress- it is a time honored position.

Who is a hero exactly? That is arguable- but he is a combat veteran- who volunteered to serve in combat- and suffered tremendously from his service. Disagree with his politics all you want(I certainly do not agree with his politics) but don't diss his service to our country.

 

[Claudette]

Oh I admire him for his service just as I admire any man or woman who serves.

Both my brother and my cousin served in Nam. My cousin did three tours over there and he wasn't some rear eschelon MF. He spent most of his time on patrols in the DMZ.

McCain's no hero though. All he did was survive as many other POW's through countless wars have done.

He bartered his survival into a life in politics.

A hero he ain't.

 

[protectionist]

Attending a 'military high school' does not make someone a veteran- and especially not a combat veteran.

John McCain- volunteered for combat- was horribly wounded as a result of that combat, tortured and served our country with distinction.
Donald Trump- volunteered to make lots of money- and avoided combat. And there is nothing wrong with that- Clinton did, Bush did- but if someone is going to call out a combat vet on his service, it is perfectly apt to point out who volunteered for combat duty- and who did not.

1. Trump's military high schools affiliated with the US Army's military academy at West Point, is neighbor to it, and is described as "tough"

2. McCain volunteered when there was draft, and might have thought he would get drafted into the Army, which is MUCH tougher than the Navy.

3. There is no evidence that McCain was tortured. None.

4. There is some evidence that McCain collaborated with the North Vietnamese, giving them military secrets in exchange for personal favors. That is "distinction", but of the wrong kind.

5. What evidence is there that Trump avoided combat ? And if he had, so what ? Vietnam was a bad war, against people who were not attacking or threatening the USA.

 

[JakeStarkey]

1. immaterial

2. he came from a Navy family

3. lie

4. another lie

5. he was shot down over North Vietnam, not Tampa Bay

 

[Camp]

Attending a 'military high school' does not make someone a veteran- and especially not a combat veteran.

John McCain- volunteered for combat- was horribly wounded as a result of that combat, tortured and served our country with distinction.
Donald Trump- volunteered to make lots of money- and avoided combat. And there is nothing wrong with that- Clinton did, Bush did- but if someone is going to call out a combat vet on his service, it is perfectly apt to point out who volunteered for combat duty- and who did not.

1. Trump's military high schools affiliated with the US Army's military academy at West Point, is neighbor to it, and is described as "tough"

2. McCain volunteered when there was draft, and might have thought he would get drafted into the Army, which is MUCH tougher than the Navy.

3. There is no evidence that McCain was tortured. None.

4. There is some evidence that McCain collaborated with the North Vietnamese, giving them military secrets in exchange for personal favors. That is "distinction", but of the wrong kind.

5. What evidence is there that Trump avoided combat ? And if he had, so what ? Vietnam was a bad war, against people who were not attacking or threatening the USA.

You took to many stupid idiot pills today. It happens. Be more careful tomorrow.

 

[protectionist]

1. immaterial

2. he came from a Navy family

3. lie

4. another lie

5. he was shot down over North Vietnam, not Tampa Bay

1. Relevant

2. So what ?

3. YOU are lying. the proof is in the OP

4. You are lying again. Evidence is in the OP. (3 sources)

5. What evidence is there that Trump avoided combat ? And if he had, so what ? Vietnam was a bad war, against people who were not attacking or threatening the USA.

 

[protectionist]

Those without substance to add, go bake cookies.

 

[protectionist]

You took to many stupid idiot pills today. It happens. Be more careful tomorrow.

You could have just said you are clueless, and have no substance to add to the tread. We would have believed you.

 

[Camp]

3. There is no evidence that McCain was tortured. None.
.

Are you saying his cell mate, who said McCain was tortured and a hero is a liar or are you saying his comments about McCain are not evidence?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Oh I admire him for his service just as I admire any man or woman who serves.

Both my brother and my cousin served in Nam. My cousin did three tours over there and he wasn't some rear eschelon MF. He spent most of his time on patrols in the DMZ.

McCain's no hero though. All he did was survive as many other POW's through countless wars have done.

He bartered his survival into a life in politics.

A hero he ain't.

I can separate his war service record from what he's doing to America today. In my opinion, he's a war hero, but that gives him no excuse to assault the Constitution with his "campaign finance reform" bill, no fail in his duty as a Republican to give the American people an ideological alternative to the Democrat party. He's a traitor in every way and it's a shame he didn't just die in Vietnam, his unblemished record of service to this country intact and beyond question.

 

[protectionist]

3. There is no evidence that McCain was tortured. None.
.

Are you saying his cell mate, who said McCain was tortured and a hero is a liar or are you saying his comments about McCain are not evidence?

Read the OP.

 

[Syriusly]

Attending a 'military high school' does not make someone a veteran- and especially not a combat veteran.

John McCain- volunteered for combat- was horribly wounded as a result of that combat, tortured and served our country with distinction.
Donald Trump- volunteered to make lots of money- and avoided combat. And there is nothing wrong with that- Clinton did, Bush did- but if someone is going to call out a combat vet on his service, it is perfectly apt to point out who volunteered for combat duty- and who did not.

1. Trump's military high schools affiliated with the US Army's military academy at West Point, is neighbor to it, and is described as "tough"

2. McCain volunteered when there was draft, and might have thought he would get drafted into the Army, which is MUCH tougher than the Navy.

3. There is no evidence that McCain was tortured. None.

4. There is some evidence that McCain collaborated with the North Vietnamese, giving them military secrets in exchange for personal favors. That is "distinction", but of the wrong kind.

5. What evidence is there that Trump avoided combat ? And if he had, so what ? Vietnam was a bad war, against people who were not attacking or threatening the USA.

1. Trump's military high schools affiliated with the US Army's military academy at West Point, is neighbor to it, and is described as "tough"

Trump went to 'military high school- McCain went to the Naval Academy. Odd you find a military high school relevant- but not an actual Military Academy.


2. McCain volunteered when there was draft, and might have thought he would get drafted into the Army, which is MUCH tougher than the Navy.

John McCain volunteered- and Donald Trump did not. So of course you attack McCain- and support Trump.

3. There is no evidence that McCain was tortured. None.

Per his fellow prisoner of war he was- but of course you don't believe anyone's story that disagrees with the narrative you have created for John McCain
1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier.

4. There is some evidence that McCain collaborated with the North Vietnamese, giving them military secrets in exchange for personal favors. That is "distinction", but of the wrong kind.

What evidence? Was he ever charged with any wrong doing?

5. What evidence is there that Trump avoided combat ? And if he had, so what ? Vietnam was a bad war, against people who were not attacking or threatening the USA

McCain volunteered to serve- and volunteered for combat duty. Trump avoided combat by not volunteering.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Trump doing what he could to avoid serving- however- since he was the one who raised the issue of McCain's service- Trump's lack of service is fair game. Just as if Bill Clinton choose to question George Bush 2's Vietnam service.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Protectionists, once again you are acting like you are keys, some sort of authority that you are not.

Your comments are simply not relevant.

 

[Syriusly]

3. There is no evidence that McCain was tortured. None.
.

Are you saying his cell mate, who said McCain was tortured and a hero is a liar or are you saying his comments about McCain are not evidence?

Read the OP.

So in other words you are accusing two Veterans of lying- not one.

 

[Syriusly]

Oh I admire him for his service just as I admire any man or woman who serves.

Both my brother and my cousin served in Nam. My cousin did three tours over there and he wasn't some rear eschelon MF. He spent most of his time on patrols in the DMZ.

McCain's no hero though. All he did was survive as many other POW's through countless wars have done.

He bartered his survival into a life in politics.

A hero he ain't.

He's a traitor in every way and it's a shame he didn't just die in Vietnam, his unblemished record of service to this country intact and beyond question.

Nothing says 'proud American' like wishing that a combat veteran had died in a POW camp in Vietnam.