McAuliffe says Clinton staying in, will win popular vote

[Jeepers]

Cool.. thanks.. I googled that quote and came up with that obscure reference... is this what ravir is bitching about..? why is it that he/she moans about this not even picked up by the mainstream media and Hillary did everything but open a campain office in tallahasee...

Thousand pardons however for saying you were lying..

Now this event in no way compares to the 10,000 seat closed door rallies that clinton was holding...

I appologized for bringing up the lie reference.. It however sounded like someone was stone walling since I could not find a reference for Obama actually being in florida.. that is unless your refering to the National Campaign adds that ran in florida on national outlets because they could not be isolated in that particular market..

As far as breaking the rules.. neither candidate did according to the DNC... Doeton says that obama did speak to the reporter but I cant make a personal ruling since I've not seen or read that Q& A session...

Btw.. I do consider care a friend and was happy to see you here...

Now.. as far as delegates in florida go..

rules that MUST be adhered to were broken.. yes it was more of a republican effort in moving the dates in florida.. yet the party could have made more of an issue out of it. .they didnt. . they should get penalized.. now .. it is unfair that the early states get all the attention and money and are in no way representative of the nation as a whole. I understand that this is unfair to the later states that only get to rubberstamp the candidate thats already been nominated. This process needs some serious updating .. I know this.. but..

Untill that is done we have rules to keep the states from leapfrogging each other into the prior year or even into the year before that .. hell this race is already nearly two years in the making.. Imagine if you will that this process gets out of hand to that point that we have one primary a month for 50 months (even longer if the territories get their months as well).

Now.. this fight is between the states and the DNC... I am strongly against candidate involvement.. especially when they flip flop for political reason... need I bring up hillary's comments on not counting FL or MI.... what about hill using the teachers association to quiet the votes in Nevadas caucusses.. have we forgotten about that... hill is only for the votes counting if .... and only if... it benefits her.. It burns my ass to see hill voters follow her on her picking and chosing of which rules to follow and when... I wasnt posting her at the time but.. I was a big hill supporter initially.. but.. living SC I got to see her campaign at its worst and ugliest... My wife is actually pictured on her website at the Youtube debate party...

 

[Jeepers]

"...is he a hypocrite to not have worked a deal and allowed them to be heard for this nomination...."

Huh?... why again is a candidate supposed to negotiate a deal here..

OH.. and neither candidate broke the rules, I still dont have info on this press conference other than Obama saying "I cant talk to the press". If rules were broken here let the DNC call him out on it.. why have they not?

"...I am not going to make an issue out of it as the Obamaites would do if, God forbid, Hillary had done this...."

Care.. are you writing for Saturday Night Live now... That give him a pillow bit was fabulous..

"...well guess what folks, those super delegates can switch back if they feel like it too....THAT'S IN THE RULES TOO...."

What say you about Hill going after the pledged delegates too....


When we look back on this race, we will learn the Obama ran a much better campaign.. this race was hillary's to lose and guess what.. she did.... She can try to take this to the convention but.... what has history shown us about that.... would you really want her to go that far....?

 

[Ravi]

If rules were broken here let the DNC call him out on it.. why have they not?

This is a question only the DNC can answer. And they should. Because it pisses off a lot of people.

 

[Jeepers]

If rules were broken here let the DNC call him out on it.. why have they not?

This is a question only the DNC can answer. And they should. Because it pisses off a lot of people.

Is this the offensive exchange.... plague on both your houses if this is it....

Obama: "Why are you yelling?!"
Regular Buzz readers know dignified political discourse isn't always our specialty, but tonight was something else. Barack Obama's campaign rejected our request for three minutes of his time before raising money in St. Pete tonight. That pledge to party leaders in IA, NH, SC, and NV allows him to raise FL money but not actually campaign in America's biggest swing state. So here was tonight's absurd exchange, as Obama left a waterfront mansion in St. Pete after a $1,000 per person fundraiser. Shouting at the top of my lungs from the street maybe 100 feet away, as Obama walked to his vehicle:

Me: "Senator, what's your position on a national cat fund!" (No Response) Senator, can we talk to you about the Everglades!. (No response, only uncomfortable silence from everyone in shouting distance) Senator! If you'll only talk to people writing $1,000 checks, why should Florida Democrats support you?! (More silence) Will you take any questions!?"

Obama (shouting back): "Why are you yelling?"

Me: "Because you won't let me talk to you! Will you talk about a national cat fund!?"

Obama: "I'm not allowed to talk to the press, guys!"

Me: "Isn't it up to you?!"

Obama: "Nope!"

Me: "Aren't you the guy trying to lead the country?!"

Obama: "I signed a pledge!"

Me: "Why?! (Silence) Why!?"

And then Barack Obama hopped in his SUV and departed from his final fundraiser of the quarter, en route to Miami for more money-raising.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/09/obama-why-are-y.html

 

[Jeepers]

Christ.. I finally found it... Next time you cats defend your own comments... why again is this exchange pissing people off... hell I think Hillary receiveing 800k to lobby for Colombian trade should have received at least a raised eyebrow.. but as far as this offense pissing people off.. someones gotta explain it to me I guess...

"TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.

Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.

The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as "campaigning," and those include "holding news conferences."

Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, "I was just doing you guys a favor. … If that's the case, then we won't do it again."
Frank Sanchez, a Tampa Obama supporter who helped organize the fundraiser, said the encounter illustrates the awkward situation the candidates have been put in by the controversy over the state's Jan. 29 presidential primary.

That date - earlier than allowed by rules of both major political parties - has led to a threat of sanctions against both Florida Republicans and Democrats, and to the Democrats' boycott pledge.

"This wasn't planned," Sanchez said of the brief press availability. "He was going to the car, and he just went across the street for a moment."
According to Sanchez and Tom Scarritt, Obama was asked during the event about making sure Floridians have a role in the nomination, despite the DNC sanctions and the pledge. Scarritt said Obama responded that he'll "do what's right by Florida voters."

The DNC has threatened to refuse to seat a Florida convention delegation because of the too-early primary, which the Florida Legislature decided on last spring. But if a candidate amasses enough delegates before the primary to ensure the nomination, that candidate would take control of the convention, including the power to seat a delegation.

State Democrats are considering asking all candidates to pledge they would seat the state's delegation.

The boycott pledge was demanded by the four states - Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina - which are allowed to hold primaries before Feb. 5."

 

[Ravi]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Does he look like he's yelling?

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

You'll have to click on the link, I couldn't figure out how to post the image.

 

[Jeepers]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Does he look like he's yelling?

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

You'll have to click on the link, I couldn't figure out how to post the image.

HUH.. ? the yelling bit was from a quote Doe poste.. I posted the whole piece. .I then found the big press conference story that offends you so....

Sounds more like sour grapes than substance if you ask me...

 

[Jeepers]

Perhaps you missed my post before last...

 

[Ravi]

HUH.. ? the yelling bit was from a quote Doe poste.. I posted the whole piece. .I then found the big press conference story that offends you so....

Sounds more like sour grapes than substance if you ask me...

Of course. Anything that shows Obama in a bad light and breaking a rule is just sour grapes. Who cares if people in Florida are disenfranchised because the DNC turned a blind eye to it.

 

[doeton]

"because the DNC turned a blind eye to it."


i don't think the DNC turned a blind eye...they just had their hands tied...and really this election has been anything but normal.

really wasn't it the state pubs that screwed you?

 

[Ravi]

"because the DNC turned a blind eye to it."


i don't think the DNC turned a blind eye...they just had their hands tied...and really this election has been anything but normal.

really wasn't it the state pubs that screwed you?

It was the state republicans and democrats but mainly the DNC. They make the rules and they can bend them if they so choose.

 

[doeton]

It was the state republicans and democrats but mainly the DNC. They make the rules and they can bend them if they so choose.

um i believe they made the rules for a reason. and your saying both your state pubs and dims ignored those party rules (and really thumbed it's nose at the rest of the country) and now wants to cry about it.

come on.

frankly if my state i had done that. i'd be pissed at the state legislature. not the party.

 

[Ravi]

um i believe they made the rules for a reason. and your saying both your state pubs and dims ignored those party rules (and really thumbed it's nose at the rest of the country) and now wants to cry about it.

come on.

frankly if my state i had done that. i'd be pissed at the state legislature. not the party.

Oh, I'm pissed at them all.

We were talking about the popular vote, remember? There was no reason to not count the popular vote especially since one of the candidates broke the agreed upon rules.

Which I must point out mattered to you until I showed you which one did it.

 

[doeton]

Oh, I'm pissed at them all.

We were talking about the popular vote, remember? There was no reason to not count the popular vote especially since one of the candidates broke the agreed upon rules.

Which I must point out mattered to you until I showed you which one did it.

actually i was more concerned about sticky to big rule...ya know that state doesn't count. sorry but it really doesn't seem fair to count an election when people were told it doesn't count. and campaigning was lets say "limited."


at this point i'm willing to concede florida. counting hill's votes in michigan though is absurd.

 

[Jeepers]

I'm not willing to concede.. You cant change the rulz or move the goal post or flip flop on a position because its beneficial politically... I'm sorry that floridians feel shafted but hey .. you cats put charlie and the rest of the pubs in office.. seriously.. you cats also put mel martinez in office...

I btw, give two shits if the entire state except one person voted... why.. because its not fair to that one person that didnt vote because he was told time and again that THE VOTES DONT COUNT.... I wont concede Michigan either. and had hill not frightened the state legislature there she might have made some inroads in a revote... The only fair way to solve this is to have a revote. The individual states must foot the bill however. Until thats done the delegates from both states can fall in line behind the presumptive nominee....

 

[Ravi]

It's like I said somewhere back on this thread...a bad call by the refs. A lot of people are unhappy about it and while I know Obama supporters don't give a hoot, it is what it is.

I mainly took issue with the attempts on this thread to paint Hillary as the rule breaker while in Florida at least it was Obama that was.

 

[doeton]

It's like I said somewhere back on this thread...a bad call by the refs. A lot of people are unhappy about it and while I know Obama supporters don't give a hoot, it is what it is. I mainly took issue with the attempts on this thread to paint Hillary as the rule breaker while in Florida at least it was Obama that was.

it's unfair to say Obama supporters don't give a hoot.

 

[Jeepers]

it's unfair to say Obama supporters don't give a hoot.

I think this point is petty.. apparently the DNC did to..

Hillary's behavior in florida conjures much more outrage than this manufactured controversy.. I posted Hills wink wink closed door campaigns in florida because footage of the event sure looked in every way shape and form to be a campaign rally... at the time I did not know of the "press conference" indiscretion...

but.. after now parsing all the information, I would scarcely call that a press conference and he said if this is against the rules I wont do it again.. where's the beef here.... sounds like more crocadile tears from the whining campaign instead of real issues from the winning campaign...

 

[Ravi]

it's unfair to say Obama supporters don't give a hoot.

I'm sorry if it's unfair. I'm pretty sure it's the truth.

 

[Larkinn]

How did she lose? Obama HAS NOT WON ENOUGH DELEGATES HIMSELF to be called and named the winner? He HAS NOT WON.....amazing, with all the hype from the Obamaites, but Obama does not have enough delegates to be called the winner yet.

Then I'll ask you again, tell me a scenario where Hillary can win the nomination.

The presidential candidates agreed to not campaign in states that moved their primary up, this is what their pledge was...they DID NOT PLEDGE to not have the votes in these states count, and the voters in these states came out in RECORD NUMBERS to vote because they were told that their vote would matter and count

I don't really care what THEY pledged, thats the rules that the DNC drew up. Rules which, by the way, Hillary supported until they went against her.

and now YOU want to disenfranchise these voters because of some power hungry democratic national committee members?

Power hungry? You have no idea what your talking about. Do you even know the massive fuckup that is the American primary system? Go look at a bottle of coca cola. Notice that instead of sugar there is high fructose corn syrup. Want to know why? Because Iowa, the corn state, votes early. The system is fucked, and it needs to be fixed.

hat's worse than what was done to Florida in 2000....and Florida WILL NEVER forgive the DNC if this is what comes to pass.

Bullshit.

and if Howard Dean does not get their votes to count somehow there will be riots.

Bullshit.

what right does the DNC have to disenfranchise an American citizen from their vote btw....can you site an article or amendment in the constitution that gives a political party the right to do such?

The Constitution doesn't give specify rights to political parties, it specifies rights to the GOVERNMENT. Which the DNC is NOT. They are a private party running their own primary to decide a NOMINEE. When Obama wins the primary, guess what political office he will have won? Absolutely nothing.

Take yourself out of being an Obama supporter and even take yourself out of being a Democrat for a second and it is plain as day that these two state's voters, CITIZENS of the USA are going to be told that they don't get a vote that counts in who THEIR PRESIDENT OF THEIR COUNTRY is going to be, because a political Party said such,...and then tell me that this is somehow Constitutional....

You have an extremely uninformed view of the Constitution. By the way, my views on all of this aren't because I am an Obama supporter, they are because the primary system is fucked and needs to change. Yes, its terrible they got disenfranchised. Blame your state governments. They knew the rules before they changed, they decided to play chicken with your votes.