Maverick GOP Mayor In W Virginia May Deny Bush An Electoral Vote

[NATO AIR]

i can respect this guy for this, i know that the great majority of veterans (outside this board) that i know are furious with Bush and his campaign for slandering Kerry's service without any real proof.
(i'm voting for Bush, but i don't like that Swift Boat Liars For Truth at all, nor do I like the Texans For Truth)

Robb's vote may not go to Bush
GOP mayor may use Electoral College
to lodge protest against president

Chris Stirewalt
Daily Mail Political Editor

Wednesday September 08, 2004

South Charleston Mayor Richie Robb said today he may vote against George W. Bush in the Electoral College, even if the president carries West Virginia's popular vote.

Robb, long known as a maverick Republican, said he is considering using his position as one of the state's five Republican electors to protest what he believes are misguided policies of the current administration.

"It's not likely that I would vote for Kerry," Robb said. "But I'm looking at what my options are when it comes time to cast my vote."

State election law dictates that the party of the candidate who wins the popular vote for president gets to send its five electors when the Electoral College convenes in mid-December.

At their state convention in June, the members of the West Virginia Republican Party chose the top five runners-up from their gubernatorial primary to serve as electors. Robb, who finished fourth in the May primary, will be among them.

read the rest @
http://www.dailymail.com/news/News/2004090817/

 

[Avatar4321]

Yeah the veterans are so upset with it they are marching on DC...against Kerry.

This man may be a marverick. but he will have to answer to the base in reelection.

 

[NATO AIR]

i'm more interested in IF he has the right to do this under W. Virginia law.

That's funny about the veterans Avatar, I guess all women hate Bush (since half a million of them or so marched a few months ago protesting his abortion policy and other issues they had with him) .... by your logic of course :scratch:

 

[freeandfun1]

i can respect this guy for this, i know that the great majority of veterans (outside this board) that i know are furious with Bush and his campaign for slandering Kerry's service without any real proof.
(i'm voting for Bush, but i don't like that Swift Boat Liars For Truth at all, nor do I like the Texans For Truth)

Robb's vote may not go to Bush
GOP mayor may use Electoral College
to lodge protest against president

Chris Stirewalt
Daily Mail Political Editor

Wednesday September 08, 2004

South Charleston Mayor Richie Robb said today he may vote against George W. Bush in the Electoral College, even if the president carries West Virginia's popular vote.

Robb, long known as a maverick Republican, said he is considering using his position as one of the state's five Republican electors to protest what he believes are misguided policies of the current administration.

"It's not likely that I would vote for Kerry," Robb said. "But I'm looking at what my options are when it comes time to cast my vote."

State election law dictates that the party of the candidate who wins the popular vote for president gets to send its five electors when the Electoral College convenes in mid-December.

At their state convention in June, the members of the West Virginia Republican Party chose the top five runners-up from their gubernatorial primary to serve as electors. Robb, who finished fourth in the May primary, will be among them.

read the rest @
http://www.dailymail.com/news/News/2004090817/

as a Navy guy, that will someday be considered a "veteran", I am surprised that you believet he swift boat vets, all 250+ don't have a right to voice their opinion about Kerry. They have made it clear that the Bush campaign is NOT involved in their story, so why won't you believe them? You say no "proof", so by that logic, you are saying that ALL those that served with him (all but less than a handful) are lying.

Are you just trying to "prove" that you are "truly non-partisan" by disparaging the reputation of these 250+ guys and calling them liars; or do you really believe that Kerry, who made his service in Vietnam the "centerpiece" of why we should vote for him, is truly a "war hero" as he proclaims?

 

[NATO AIR]

I have yet to see any proof of what these guys talking about being true.

Instead I have seen numerous prestigious newspapers (yes a few with a leftist bent perhaps) who have been vanguards of the truth in the past release analysis of these claims as "essentially untrue."

As I have said before, quite a good number of them have in the past praised or even campaigned for Kerry.

And, after being on official record ascribing the events they now claim are false, they are discrediting themselves, especially because they're coming out in these ads "attacking" Kerry.

If they had released these ads and solemnly said, "we are sorry, we lied about events in Vietnam that John Kerry took part in and is claiming honor for" I could see them as credible.

Instead they're financed by Bush supporters who want to discredit and embarass Kerry.

Our president himself said John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam, and on more than one occasion, called him a war hero.

So I guess Pres. Bush is a liar too?

They criticize Kerry for testifying before Congress about atroicites commited in Vietnam by American soldiers... yet time and time again, even from the mouths of other veterans, evidence has come forward that atrocities did happen. Soldiers were put in a horrible situation by politicians (and by the way, Vietnam was liberalism's war, so the Dems started the whole mess themselves) for more than a decade, and quite a number of those soldiers acted like monsters. Bad things happened in a bad place. That doesn't mean that soldiers who were drafted (or like Kerry, volunteered) for their country did not serve honorably, it just means that a number of them commited horrible acts during war.

Remember it was we as Americans (the great majority) who turned our backs on these veterans and helped to poison the atmosphere for years before we finally realized that that was wrong. The politicians (both Dem and GOP) were for years the problem, not the troops.

 

[freeandfun1]

I have yet to see any proof of what these guys talking about being true.

Instead I have seen numerous prestigious newspapers (yes a few with a leftist bent perhaps) who have been vanguards of the truth in the past release analysis of these claims as "essentially untrue."

As I have said before, quite a good number of them have in the past praised or even campaigned for Kerry.

And, after being on official record ascribing the events they now claim are false, they are discrediting themselves, especially because they're coming out in these ads "attacking" Kerry.

If they had released these ads and solemnly said, "we are sorry, we lied about events in Vietnam that John Kerry took part in and is claiming honor for" I could see them as credible.

Instead they're financed by Bush supporters who want to discredit and embarass Kerry.

Our president himself said John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam, and on more than one occasion, called him a war hero.

So I guess Pres. Bush is a liar too?

They criticize Kerry for testifying before Congress about atroicites commited in Vietnam by American soldiers... yet time and time again, even from the mouths of other veterans, evidence has come forward that atrocities did happen. Soldiers were put in a horrible situation by politicians (and by the way, Vietnam was liberalism's war, so the Dems started the whole mess themselves) for more than a decade, and quite a number of those soldiers acted like monsters. Bad things happened in a bad place. That doesn't mean that soldiers who were drafted (or like Kerry, volunteered) for their country did not serve honorably, it just means that a number of them commited horrible acts during war.

Remember it was we as Americans (the great majority) who turned our backs on these veterans and helped to poison the atmosphere for years before we finally realized that that was wrong. The politicians (both Dem and GOP) were for years the problem, not the troops.

Well, if you watch and read something other than CNN and the NY Times or the Boston Globe, you would have seen that these men are plausible and right this moment, the Department of the Navy is investigating Kerry's medals. On his own website he shows a DD214 that says he was awarded the Silver Star with "V" Device. There is no such animal. Also, his silver star was supposedly signed by Secretary of the Navy Lehman. But Lehman says he never signed it and plus, he wasn't SoN until the mid eighties.

I could go on and on. If you really wanted to get both sides of the story you could, but you ain't gonna find it on any of the big three. The web is an excellent source of information and you can compare the stories yourself and then make a decision. Don't make one based on what the media if force-feeding you. You have picked up the DNC mantra and I am having a hard time believing you are as "non-partisan" as you often claim.

Secondly, you have not answered my question. Are those 250 plus swifties liars? Yes or no.

Lastly, nobody campaigned for Kerry. Kerry, in 1996, was accused of war crimes by an opponent in the primary and these vets you and Kerry claim "campaigned for him" did no such thing. They are on the record and even in tapes of the events where they did defend him in 1996, they have made clear that their intentions then were to stand by him to say that he nor any other swifties participated in war crimes. If Kerry had, that meant they had, and they wanted no part of it.

Oh, one more point..... you see, the problem is, that yes, some did committ atrocities. It happens in every war. But Kerry came back and said that HE had participated in atrocities. Again, that implicated ALL swifties and that is what they are pissed about. And BTW, they have said that that is the main reason they are speaking out. They have not minced words about it.

 

[NATO AIR]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040829_603.htmlTROY, Ohio Aug. 29, 2004 — President Bush said opponent John Kerry's service was "more heroic" than his during Vietnam, in an interview shown Saturday on NBC News.

who is lying, pres. bush or the swift boat liars?

 

[NATO AIR]

i'll go with john mccain and david hackworth: they're liars and what they're doing is shameful

from sen. mccain's statement on the swiftboat issue:

Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

 

[NATO AIR]

and what bob dole (despite his public bashing of kerry, thinks of this kind of slur) there is a videotape of dole's comment you can watch

http://www.slate.com/id/2105781

on the trail Dispatches from Campaign 2004.


For Shame
A leaked video reveals what Bob Dole really thinks about Bush's tactics.
By Chris Suellentrop
Posted Friday, Aug. 27, 2004, at 4:26 PM PT

For pretty much the duration of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth controversy, the Kerry campaign has been trying to demonstrate that the smear campaign being conducted against the Democratic presidential nominee is all the more loathsome because it is part of a pattern of behavior by George W. Bush: the use of front groups to damage his campaign opponents by putting false statements into the political bloodstream. Particularly salient, Democrats believe, is the 2000 campaign conducted against John McCain during the South Carolina primary.

Democrats now have an unlikely ally in their quest to prove that Bush has a history of these kinds of dirty tricks: Bob Dole. No one has done more to lend establishment respectability to the falsehoods being peddled against Kerry than Dole. The former Senate majority leader and 1996 presidential nominee of the Republican Party made several demonstrably false statements about John Kerry's war record this past Sunday on CNN's Late Edition before saying that "not every one of these people can be Republican liars. There's got to be some truth to the charges."

But Dole also made another statement that day, one that hasn't been aired until now. Of McCain's charge to President Bush during a 2000 debate—"You should be ashamed"—Dole told Wolf Blitzer, "He was right." Dole made the remark off-air, while CNN broadcast a portion of McCain's 2000 debate remarks. The Kerry campaign had been using the debate footage in an ad called "Old Tricks" but stopped airing it recently at McCain's request.*

Although the remark was made off-air, it wasn't made off-camera. A CNN employee who asked not to be named made a digital file of the raw camera feed from the Late Edition studio. The footage does not include the graphics or other video, such as the McCain ad, that was shown during the live broadcast. "Once the control room punches the ad, it automatically kills the mics in the studio," the CNN employee told me. "He knows he can speak to Wolf and no one will hear him." Slate has posted the video, so you can see Dole's remark for yourself. (Click the image to view the clip.)

Question for Bob Dole: If President Bush should be ashamed of his behavior four years ago, why aren't you ashamed now?

Correction, Aug. 31, 2004: This article originally stated that CNN's Late Edition broadcast the Kerry ad called "Old Tricks," rather than the actual debate footage. Return to the corrected sentence.

 

[freeandfun1]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040829_603.htmlTROY, Ohio Aug. 29, 2004 — President Bush said opponent John Kerry's service was "more heroic" than his during Vietnam, in an interview shown Saturday on NBC News.

who is lying, pres. bush or the swift boat liars?

dude, Bush said "more heroic than HIS service". Plus, Bush didn't serve with Kerry, so how would he know if he was heroic or not? Bush is just doing as he should, and taking the high road with this issue.

 

[freeandfun1]

why don't you just admit you are a democratic shrill? Bob Dole can say what he wants. He earned that right. And frankly, many vets agree with him. Kerry didn't miss a single day of work because of his "injuries" that got him out of vietnam 8 months early. So get a grip and be real.

 

[NATO AIR]

shouldn't we all take the high road and avoid this nixonesque style of hateful lies and deceit?

read hackworth's column in my other thread for the history of all this BS

 

[freeandfun1]

i'll go with john mccain and david hackworth: they're liars and what they're doing is shameful

from sen. mccain's statement on the swiftboat issue:

Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

why don't you read up and get educated and just stop going with whatever somebody else says. This point has been discussed enough. There are a ton of threads on it with lots of links. Go read up! Educate yourself.

Don't you get it, McCain just wants to stay out of the frey. What do you expect him to say? Again, educate yourself and stop listening to others.

 

[NATO AIR]

my point is this, they slandered mccain without evidence, and bob dole thought it was wrong

they're slandering kerry without evidence, now why doesn't dole think that is wrong?

WHERE IS THE PROOF?
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

all we've got is 250 guys being supported by a bunch of rich bush supporters trying to bring down a man who (stupidly, it has nothing to do with 2004) made his vietnam service a keystone of his campaign.

 

[freeandfun1]

shouldn't we all take the high road and avoid this nixonesque style of hateful lies and deceit?

read hackworth's column in my other thread for the history of all this BS

i've read enough about it. I have my position and I ain't changing it. I wouldn't vote for Kerry anyway. Even if I did think he was a hero cuz he is not the man we need to lead the nation right now.

You brought up this topic, not me. I just asked why you will believe him, but not those that served over and with him? Why do you ignore what they say?

I am convinced you are a closet Kerry supporter that is just acting like a Bush supporter as you think it will get you more kuddos from us. Just admit what you are and stop hiding under the covers. If you want Kerry to win, say it. I really don't care. But stop acting like you are non-partisan when all you do is post anti-Bush articles. Do you really think we are all so stupid that we will believe you are going to vote for Bush? If you are, how can you vote for somebody that you obviously dislike and distrust so much?

Get out of the closet dude! Its dark in there.

 

[freeandfun1]

my point is this, they slandered mccain without evidence, and bob dole thought it was wrong

they're slandering kerry without evidence, now why doesn't dole think that is wrong?

WHERE IS THE PROOF?
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

all we've got is 250 guys being supported by a bunch of rich bush supporters trying to bring down a man who (stupidly, it has nothing to do with 2004) made his vietnam service a keystone of his campaign.

you ignore the proof and evidence. that is why you don't see it. Has kerry released ALL his military records as Bush has? NO! Only hand picked ones.


And those guys are not all a bunch of rich Bush supporters. See, again you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. One Bush supporter donated $100,000 to the swifties for their ads. So let's see, if you divide that by 250, that means they received a whopping $400 each! WOW! You have no clue do you? Are you really so ignorant or do you just not read anything other than the NY Times?

 

[NATO AIR]

alright, first of all, i am not a closet kerry supporter

i will vote bush, for the following reasons:

he's got a better idea of what this country has to do in the WOT
he's got a better idea of what our federal government needs to do in the coming future (social security, taxes, education, homeland security)
he shares my views on abortion, gun control, taxes (not 100%,but closer than kerry), social programs, federal judges

kerry is a flip-flopper on so many things that have been said here and proven by yourself and others, one minute he's for the war, the next he's against it, the next he's ????? who knows?

i think he has some good ideas that pres. bush could take after the election and use, that's what good presidents, they take the best their opponent has to offer and use it if its viable

however, i decry slander

however, i share the view of hackworth and others who believe this whole slander campaign is BS

like i told you just in the last post, kerry stupidly made his service a centerpoint in his presidental run, to make up for a weak senate record

i don't always post anti-bush articles, i usually have been posting articles about darfur, the UN being a joke, how we can repair the military after Iraq, interesting comments and viewpoints from people, etc etc

i posted this thread because i agree with the GOP elector on what's been done to kerry: it pisses me off, and the majority of people I know in the Navy are pissed about it too, as well as the majority of veterans I know (outside this board) its lies and slander, flat out

and since i like bush, and he's my president, i have the right to post opinions that differ from his but are meant to show that there are REPUBLICANS out there who don't always parrot the party line. we're often known as mavericks, renegades or progressives, but we still support the majority of republicans.

i respect your opinion on this matter, but i think its wrong. you have a view, i have a view. but as i have said before, if what these men say is true, they are liars, because many of them are on official navy record saying the opposite of what they're saying now.

i may not be as conservative or pro-bush as you are, but i'm still for bush and i am still a republican. respect that and i'll respect you.

 

[NATO AIR]

all we've got is 250 guys being supported by a bunch of rich bush supporters trying to bring down a man who (stupidly, it has nothing to do with 2004) made his vietnam service a keystone of his campaign.

those are my exact words, i did not say "financially supported" i did not say the 250 odd swift boat liars were rich

exact words: supported by a bunch of rich bush supporters

please don't put words in my mouth that i did not say

 

[Merlin1047]

I have yet to see any proof of what these guys talking about being true.

You are truly unbelievable. You get all watery-eyed about criticism of kerry's so-called "service" for some reason. You make the obviously bullshit claim that the "vast majority" of veterans you know are furious about this criticism. How many VIET NAM veterans do you know? One or two? I know over a thousand. I have met two who are not too happy about the whole thing, yet none are "furious". This entire part of your statement seems to me to be nothing more than a product of your wishful thinking.

Then you insult the integrity of these veterans by insinuating that they are merely the lying pawns of a Republican campaign bent on destroying kerry through cheap political smears. You really are a piece of work. You seem to have no problem with the outrageous accusations fabricated on a daily basis by the Democrat campaign, yet when veterans with credibility voice their opinions and tell the facts as they know them, you find that to be objectionable.

The SBVFT is NOT connected with the Republican presidential campaign. The fact that they get support from private citizens who support Pres. Bush should not be a surprise even to someone as naive as you. I have sent them a small amount, I'm going to send them more. Have you been paying no attention? Are your cognitive powers so limited that you are incapable of discerning the difference between an ad made by a private group attacking a candidate as opposed to an ad by the campaign? Or do you simply ignore the facts in favor of the little fairy tale world you have created?

I'm sick of seeing you attempt to denigrate 250 Viet Nam veterans and call them liars. Sonny, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground about this subject so stop trying to present yourself as some sort of authority. You only come off as whiney and disgusting.

 

[Merlin1047]

i can respect this guy for this,

And one more thing while I'm on a roll. So you "respect this guy" for refusing to cast his vote as DIRECTED by the people he purports to represent. You "respect this guy" for screwing the people in his district out of their voice in the election. You "respect this guy" for using this sacred forum simply as a means of advancing his own personal agenda and to hell with everyone else.

If that is truly how you feel, I don't respect you at all.