Marines left swinging in the breeze...

[Gunny]

I will admit to not paying close attention during the 90s, as making money was far more important to me than politics, and if you say that Clinton sent you out with stuff rigged so many times it was held together with bailing wire and duct tape, I am forced to believe you... but... I don't recall Clinton ever deploying 160,000 troops anywhere... a few cruise missiles sure... but 160,000 troops? I don't think so.

The Iraq war is bush's baby... not Clinton's... so the state of the gear NOW is own bush's shoulders, not on Clinton's...

How many troops did Clinton deploy to Bosnia with what is now being called "insufficient gear"? How many troops deployed into possible hostile zones with that inadequate equipment? Hell, every one of us that went to Desert Storm had it.

I didn't blame this war on Clinton. But blaming military procurement on Bush is about the equivalent of it.

 

[CSM]

I will admit to not paying close attention during the 90s, as making money was far more important to me than politics, and if you say that Clinton sent you out with stuff rigged so many times it was held together with bailing wire and duct tape, I am forced to believe you... but... I don't recall Clinton ever deploying 160,000 troops anywhere... a few cruise missiles sure... but 160,000 troops? I don't think so.

The Iraq war is bush's baby... not Clinton's... so the state of the gear NOW is own bush's shoulders, not on Clinton's...

Somalia ring a bell? Significantly more than "a few cruise missiles". Lots of issues in there about the troops not having the armor support (tanks) they needed.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Somali wasn't all Clinton's fault though. Though I believe the political decision not to provide armor was his mistake.

 

[TheStripey1]

1) How many troops did Clinton deploy to Bosnia with what is now being called "insufficient gear"?
2) How many troops deployed into possible hostile zones with that inadequate equipment?
3) Hell, every one of us that went to Desert Storm had it.

4) I didn't blame this war on Clinton. But blaming military procurement on Bush is about the equivalent of it.

1) I don't have a clue, GunnyL... How many?
2) See #1...
3) Desert Storm was Bush 1's baby... If you had insufficient gear then, it sure as hell wasn't Clinton's fault... that blame would fall on either Bush 1's shoulders or Reagan's... which was it?
4) When a president sends his military into war ill-equipped, who's fault is it? His or the president before him? In my opinion, it is the president's fault who is doing the sending.

 

[TheStripey1]

Somalia ring a bell? Significantly more than "a few cruise missiles". Lots of issues in there about the troops not having the armor support (tanks) they needed.

yeah... I remember Somalia... there were a lot of republicans in congress trying to micromanage the war... why was it ok then but not now?

 

[Gunny]

1) I don't have a clue, GunnyL... How many?
2) See #1...
3) Desert Storm was Bush 1's baby... If you had insufficient gear then, it sure as hell wasn't Clinton's fault... that blame would fall on either Bush 1's shoulders or Reagan's... which was it?
4) When a president sends his military into war ill-equipped, who's fault is it? His or the president before him? In my opinion, it is the president's fault who is doing the sending.

You're missing the point. The procurement branches of each service, not the President, and not Joe Blow Civilian decides what to equip the military with.

The President did not send the military to war ill-equipped. The President sent the military to war with what military procurement had decided was the best to equip the military with.

And the cold hard fact is ... we were FORCED to go to war, and there is absolutely NO WAY had he concentrated specifically on doing so that Bush could have completely re-equipped the military after 8 years of neglect, underfunding and undermanning of his predecessor, and I most certainly CAN blame the state of the military Bush received on Bush's predecessor, if it's Presidents you wish to blame.

I read the links. The damned vests being touted as "better" can't even take the temperature change of the flight over without effectiveness being compromised, and they weight 20 pounds more. Some deal.

If I was standing in downtown Baghdad this minute I'd tell you what you could do with your piece of junk you're trying to force on me for no more reaason than playing partisan politics.

 

[CSM]

yeah... I remember Somalia... there were a lot of republicans in congress trying to micromanage the war... why was it ok then but not now?

It wasn't just Republicans. I have to ask how can you hold the current President responsible for the situation we have presently and yet exonerate Clinton and blame "the Republican Congress" for all the preceeding military ills?

I am sure you have ome excuse for Clinton and none for Bush so consider the question rhetorical.

 

[TheStripey1]

It wasn't just Republicans. I have to ask how can you hold the current President responsible for the situation we have presently and yet exonerate Clinton and blame "the Republican Congress" for all the preceeding military ills?

I am sure you have ome excuse for Clinton and none for Bush so consider the question rhetorical.

If you're waiting for me to defend Clinton, you will be waiting a long long time... I was a republican until 2003.

laffs... I get to blast them both... and do most of the time... it's just that nowadays, since I'm staunchly anti-bush, I come off as being a democrat because I consistently have nothing good to say about him... but I'm not a democrat. I'm an independent.

No, I was questioning the republicans micromanaging the somalian war then and crying that the democrats want to do the same with Iraq now. If it was ok for the repubs to do it then, why is it wrong for the dems to do it now?

 

[CSM]

If you're waiting for me to defend Clinton, you will be waiting a long long time... I was a republican until 2003.

laffs... I get to blast them both... and do most of the time... it's just that nowadays, since I'm staunchly anti-bush, I come off as being a democrat because I consistently have nothing good to say about him... but I'm not a democrat. I'm an independent.

No, I was questioning the republicans micromanaging the somalian war then and crying that the democrats want to do the same with Iraq now. If it was ok for the repubs to do it then, why is it wrong for the dems to do it now?

LOL...Congress has been trying to micromanage wars since the inception of the Army and Navy back in the 1700's. The 1st Continental Congress managed to piss of Geo. Washington doing that crap.

 

[Annie]

LOL...Congress has been trying to micromanage wars since the inception of the Army and Navy back in the 1700's. The 1st Continental Congress managed to piss of Geo. Washington doing that crap.

and screwing them up then and ever since.