Margaret thatcher died

[Foxfyre]

[

The worker does not have to make a profit. The worker's interest is in earning a wage doing work that doesn't suck in conditions that don't suck. In the past unions were the voice of the worker to improve working conditions, wages, and address safety issues to EVERYBODY's advantage including the employer.

But when the unions no longer are interested in working with an employer but rather assume a right to whatever the employer has with no concern for consequences, the unions become thugs, tyrants, and destructive to the process.

The worker does not put his savings and working capital at risk in a new venture. The worker does not lose anything but future earnings if a business goes under. It is the employer who is responsible for the infrastructure, overhead, liability risks, insurance,....

I've seen too much bad behavior by employers to break out the violins for them.

The country worked a lot better when we had strong unions. That was before the wealthy bought our government and got Free Trade and Right to Work and all the other stupidity.

"The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists... they're too damned greedy"- Herbert Hoover.


Exactly.

Well there is a couple of reasons we can't go back to your unionist, protectionist paradise. One of them is Japan, China, South Korea, India, Brazil, Mexico, a rebuilt Germany, a rebuilt Europe. There are lots of reasons why we cannot "go back to that". The US is actually competing with other nations around the world, whereas in the 1950s, we could afford to have uncompetitive wages, tax rates, business costs etc etc because the third world still had not started developing and the western world other than the US was destroyed from WW2. The US was the only game in town, they had the largest industrial capacity and despite an unfavorable business environment, they still were able to export their goods at the lowest costs because the rest of the world had little capacity to speak of.

That is an interesting perspective that I have not seen before. And I'm going to think on it a bit before I agree or disagree though my initial reaction was to agree.

 

[Political Junky]

Right Wingers in the US seem to agree with Thatcher on most things, but not her vowed support of the UK medical care.

 

[JoeB131]

And you getting fired over medical bills tells me you suck as an employee.

I'd have no problem paying an employee's medical bills. The employee would have to be really, really bad for me to even consider not paying.

MOre along the lines of, they didn't have a choice. They never kept an employee who had a medical issue. From pregnancies to cancer patients... you got sick, you were out of there.

In fact, the reason I got the job to start with was the last guy who had it got cancer.

But that's okay, to Wall Street, working folks are like Sea Monkeys.

 

[JoeB131]

Every time I wanted to teach my employees a lesson, I would not show up for a day or two. That was usually enough to put the fear of God in their hearts. Without any of them, I would hire someone else, without me, none of them would have a job.

Funny you should mention that.

Going back to the Douchebag who Cured Me Of Republicanism, our best weeks were the few times his wife got him to go on vacation.

We could just do our jobs without having to answer his retarded questions, listen to his abusive rants, or have to correct his idiotic decisions. Or spend hours smoothing over a relationship with a customer or vendor he totally fucked up.

We were usually thrilled when the boss didn't show up.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Well there is a couple of reasons we can't go back to your unionist, protectionist paradise. One of them is Japan, China, South Korea, India, Brazil, Mexico, a rebuilt Germany, a rebuilt Europe. There are lots of reasons why we cannot "go back to that". The US is actually competing with other nations around the world, whereas in the 1950s, we could afford to have uncompetitive wages, tax rates, business costs etc etc because the third world still had not started developing and the western world other than the US was destroyed from WW2. The US was the only game in town, they had the largest industrial capacity and despite an unfavorable business environment, they still were able to export their goods at the lowest costs because the rest of the world had little capacity to speak of.

A couple of problems with that.

First, the more advanced countries on that list DO protect their industries. France, Japan, Germany, ARE protectionist. Even China is protectionist. Getting goods into China is a LOT harder than getting them out, and I know, I've done both.

The problem with Free Trade is that we do the Oky-Doke while everyone else is looking out for themselves. Part of this is the Cold War stupidity of wanting to prop the workers of these countries up at the expense of our own so they DIDN'T start thinking Communism might be a nifty idea.

Case in point, Japan. After its defeat in WWI, we gave Japan every break to first provide material for the Korean war (at the expense of our own workers) to allowing them free access to our markets to sending specialists over there to run their industries.

Ironically, Japan got a leg up because some of the brilliant theorists like Demming got to test their ideas without dealing with the stodgy corproate establishments in this country. Now we all think the Japanese are briliant because they employed great ideas Americans developed but never implemented.

So in the 1960's, "Made in Japan" meant cheap quality. Kind of what "Made in China" means now. Today, Made in Japan means quality.

Here's the thing. The thing Japan doesn't do is pay a CEO an 8 figure salary for running his company into the ground.

 

[Meathead]

Margaret Thatcher's Death Party



Margaret Thatcher's Death Party | VICE United States

Check out the scum! Seriously, I would be proud if that caliber of people celebrated my death. It would be testament to my accomplishments.

And you getting fired over medical bills tells me you suck as an employee.

I'd have no problem paying an employee's medical bills. The employee would have to be really, really bad for me to even consider not paying.

MOre along the lines of, they didn't have a choice. They never kept an employee who had a medical issue. From pregnancies to cancer patients... you got sick, you were out of there.

In fact, the reason I got the job to start with was the last guy who had it got cancer.

But that's okay, to Wall Street, working folks are like Sea Monkeys.

Workers are certainly not "sea monkeys"(?), but with the lot in the link provided by Synth above I'd say you were going in the right direction. I'm sure you would fit in well.

 

[JoeB131]

[

No, you are wrong. Actually Germany, Japan, and France each have an average tariff rate of 1.6%. The United States have an average tariff rate of 1.8%. China does have a higher average tariff rate, around 4%.
Tariff rate, applied, weighted mean, all products (%) | Data | Table

Here's your first problem. They have tariff's equivlent to ours. Then they have VAT's on top of those, and the VAT's are higher on foreign made goods or goods from outside the EU in the case of EU nations. That's why we run huge trade deficits with these countries.

I don't know what this theory about free trade to fight communism is. Most of our free trade agreements didn't come about until the 1990s and we didn't join the WTO until 1995, after the Cold War.
World Trade Organization accession and membership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The rest of the story about Japanese CEOS or stealing technology is irrelevant to the benefits of free trade.

You think the stupidity started with the 1990's, you are delusional.

For instance, Reagan was the one who started the policies making it easier to move plants to Mexico because he was combatting all the communism Castro was promoting in Latin America.

The problem is, they are very good at gaming the system to protect their workers. We suck at it. It's why Germany, despite having stronger unions than we do, and an equivlent standard of living, is the second biggest EXPORTER in the world while we are the biggest importer.

 

[Toro]

And you getting fired over medical bills tells me you suck as an employee.

I'd have no problem paying an employee's medical bills. The employee would have to be really, really bad for me to even consider not paying.

MOre along the lines of, they didn't have a choice. They never kept an employee who had a medical issue. From pregnancies to cancer patients... you got sick, you were out of there.

In fact, the reason I got the job to start with was the last guy who had it got cancer.

But that's okay, to Wall Street, working folks are like Sea Monkeys.

They probably found out that your bigotry caused them to lose business because you won't deal with Mormons and fired you.

 

[JoeB131]

[

They probably found out that your bigotry caused them to lose business because you won't deal with Mormons and fired you.

Guy, I live in Illinois, where we proudly shot Joseph Smith for the pedophile dog that he was.

I'm sure there are a few Mormons out here, but they keep a low profile.

Shit, I didn't even know what a Mormon was until I encounters some of the backstabbing mother-fuckers in the Army. And that was before I studied their batshit crazy beliefs.

Hey, how'd nominating one work out for you guys again?

Incidently, after leaving that job after six years, in the five years since, they've gone through five people in that job, most of them not lasting more than a year. Last week, the Office Manager contacted me about writing her resume. She's even had enough.

 

[Toro]

[

No, you are wrong. Actually Germany, Japan, and France each have an average tariff rate of 1.6%. The United States have an average tariff rate of 1.8%. China does have a higher average tariff rate, around 4%.
Tariff rate, applied, weighted mean, all products (%) | Data | Table

Here's your first problem. They have tariff's equivlent to ours. Then they have VAT's on top of those, and the VAT's are higher on foreign made goods or goods from outside the EU in the case of EU nations. That's why we run huge trade deficits with these countries.

I don't know what this theory about free trade to fight communism is. Most of our free trade agreements didn't come about until the 1990s and we didn't join the WTO until 1995, after the Cold War.
World Trade Organization accession and membership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The rest of the story about Japanese CEOS or stealing technology is irrelevant to the benefits of free trade.

You think the stupidity started with the 1990's, you are delusional.

For instance, Reagan was the one who started the policies making it easier to move plants to Mexico because he was combatting all the communism Castro was promoting in Latin America.

The problem is, they are very good at gaming the system to protect their workers. We suck at it. It's why Germany, despite having stronger unions than we do, and an equivlent standard of living, is the second biggest EXPORTER in the world while we are the biggest importer.

Can you show us where VAT is higher on foreign goods in Germany because I don't think that's right. I'm looking at a few sites right now about international goods and there is no mention of it. Discrimination on VAT for foreign goods is not allowed under the WTO.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Can you show us where VAT is higher on foreign goods in Germany because I don't think that's right. I'm looking at a few sites right now about international goods and there is no mention of it. Discrimination on VAT for foreign goods is not allowed under the WTO.

Right. because that never happens.

I love when the people who wrecked the economy try to tell me how it works.

 

[Toro]

[
Well there is a couple of reasons we can't go back to your unionist, protectionist paradise. One of them is Japan, China, South Korea, India, Brazil, Mexico, a rebuilt Germany, a rebuilt Europe. There are lots of reasons why we cannot "go back to that". The US is actually competing with other nations around the world, whereas in the 1950s, we could afford to have uncompetitive wages, tax rates, business costs etc etc because the third world still had not started developing and the western world other than the US was destroyed from WW2. The US was the only game in town, they had the largest industrial capacity and despite an unfavorable business environment, they still were able to export their goods at the lowest costs because the rest of the world had little capacity to speak of.

A couple of problems with that.

First, the more advanced countries on that list DO protect their industries. France, Japan, Germany, ARE protectionist. Even China is protectionist. Getting goods into China is a LOT harder than getting them out, and I know, I've done both.

The problem with Free Trade is that we do the Oky-Doke while everyone else is looking out for themselves. Part of this is the Cold War stupidity of wanting to prop the workers of these countries up at the expense of our own so they DIDN'T start thinking Communism might be a nifty idea.

Case in point, Japan. After its defeat in WWI, we gave Japan every break to first provide material for the Korean war (at the expense of our own workers) to allowing them free access to our markets to sending specialists over there to run their industries.

Ironically, Japan got a leg up because some of the brilliant theorists like Demming got to test their ideas without dealing with the stodgy corproate establishments in this country. Now we all think the Japanese are briliant because they employed great ideas Americans developed but never implemented.

So in the 1960's, "Made in Japan" meant cheap quality. Kind of what "Made in China" means now. Today, Made in Japan means quality.

Here's the thing. The thing Japan doesn't do is pay a CEO an 8 figure salary for running his company into the ground.

No, you are wrong. Actually Germany, Japan, and France each have an average tariff rate of 1.6%. The United States have an average tariff rate of 1.8%. China does have a higher average tariff rate, around 4%.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TM.TAX.MRCH.WM.AR.ZS

Over the past 5 years, top exporter has alternated between China, Germany and the USA(I don't count the EU as a single country). Over the past 5 years, China has lowered the tariffs, and overtaken the United States and Germany. Now they might have higher tariff rates, but their cheap costs of production along with lower tariffs and economic recession in the west has resulted in them becoming the world's top exporter
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html

I don't know what this theory about free trade to fight communism is. Most of our free trade agreements didn't come about until the 1990s and we didn't join the WTO until 1995, after the Cold War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization_accession_and_membership

The rest of the story about Japanese CEOS or stealing technology is irrelevant to the benefits of free trade.

You're basically right about free trade. However, the broad push for free trade came just after WWII with the establishment of the GATT. Politicians believed at the time - rightly - that the inward turn of protectionism of the prior 50 years contributed to both world wars, particularly WWII, as well as the Great Depression. GATT was developed as a post war institution - along with the UN and the IMF - to integrate the world economy and lead to less war. GATT was the forerunner of the WTO.

Both goals of peace and economic growth were enhanced by GATT. There is academic literature concluding that there is a direct correlation between less war with more trade between countries. There is also academic literature showing the economic benefits of free trade, not the least that global trade has grown faster since WWII than global GDP. Tariffs on global trade in 1945 averaged roughly 40%. Today it's about 5%.

 

[Toro]

[

Can you show us where VAT is higher on foreign goods in Germany because I don't think that's right. I'm looking at a few sites right now about international goods and there is no mention of it. Discrimination on VAT for foreign goods is not allowed under the WTO.

Right. because that never happens.

I love when the people who wrecked the economy try to tell me how it works.

I'm asking you to show us where that happens. You said it. Back it up.

Maybe you're inability to follow through was why you got fired.

 

[JoeB131]

I love when the people who wrecked the economy try to tell me how it works.

I'm asking you to show us where that happens. You said it. Back it up.

Maybe you're inability to follow through was why you got fired.

Nope. Never missed a deadline or a delivery... but you keep going with that.

I just know MY INDUSTRY DIDN"T DESTROY THE ECONOMY.

That was yours.

Hey, maybe you can start whining about how I'm a big meanie to Mormons again. That shit never gets old.

 

[JoeB131]

Has European protectionism finally triumphed over free trade? - Public Service Europe

EU reports on progress in fight against protectionism - Trade - European Commission

Creeping protectionism in EU trade policy | News | Overseas Development Institute (ODI)

Whole shitload of articles on European protectionism... but you keep pretending that ain't happening Toto..

"WAAAAAAHHHHH, YOU just hate Moooooormons!"

 

[Meathead]

[

Can you show us where VAT is higher on foreign goods in Germany because I don't think that's right. I'm looking at a few sites right now about international goods and there is no mention of it. Discrimination on VAT for foreign goods is not allowed under the WTO.

Right. because that never happens.

I love when the people who wrecked the economy try to tell me how it works.

Yeah, they say that about socialists in the former worker's paradises and places like Greece. You have no idea what a wrecked economy looks like. Hang on though, it's probably coming your way.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Can you show us where VAT is higher on foreign goods in Germany because I don't think that's right. I'm looking at a few sites right now about international goods and there is no mention of it. Discrimination on VAT for foreign goods is not allowed under the WTO.

Right. because that never happens.

I love when the people who wrecked the economy try to tell me how it works.

Yeah, they say that about socialists in the former worker's paradises and places like Greece. You have no idea what a wrecked economy looks like. Hang on though, it's probably coming your way.

Says the guy who works in a country where the women mail themselves off to America because the place is so miserable.

 

[Meathead]

Right. because that never happens.

I love when the people who wrecked the economy try to tell me how it works.

Yeah, they say that about socialists in the former worker's paradises and places like Greece. You have no idea what a wrecked economy looks like. Hang on though, it's probably coming your way.

Says the guy who works in a country where the women mail themselves off to America because the place is so miserable.

Some undoubtedly did when they were living in the worker's paradise you champion. It was a way to escape, but those days are long gone. You'll have to settle for the local livestock in Chicago, although I do understand that crack whores aren't that fat.

 

[Toro]

Has European protectionism finally triumphed over free trade? - Public Service Europe

EU reports on progress in fight against protectionism - Trade - European Commission

Creeping protectionism in EU trade policy | News | Overseas Development Institute (ODI)

Whole shitload of articles on European protectionism... but you keep pretending that ain't happening Toto..

"WAAAAAAHHHHH, YOU just hate Moooooormons!"

The first article was about political ideology, not about what is actually happening. The second article is about the EU's efforts to lower trade barriers with its trading partners. The third is about non-tariff barriers aimed at developing countries. Of course, the US also does this and also violates trade agreements, but these are minor relative compared to the global volume of trade.

But all three have nothing to do with German VAT. Back up your claims.

 

[Foxfyre]

[

Can you show us where VAT is higher on foreign goods in Germany because I don't think that's right. I'm looking at a few sites right now about international goods and there is no mention of it. Discrimination on VAT for foreign goods is not allowed under the WTO.

Right. because that never happens.

I love when the people who wrecked the economy try to tell me how it works.

I'm asking you to show us where that happens. You said it. Back it up.

Maybe you're inability to follow through was why you got fired.

JoeB doesn't follow through well when his arguments are taken apart. He still hasn't admitted he got it wrong re Japanese unions vs American unions in his effort to elevate American unions to godlike status as he seems to see them. Japan's unions continue to work hand and hand with management to strengthen and improve profitablility of the corporations and strengthen the economy. USA unions continue to do just the opposite.

Now let's look at the exports and imports. China is the No. 1 exporter achieving that rank over Germany in 2010. Germany, with almost no natural resources, imports almost all raw materials, adds value through technology to create products that it then exports. The USA remains a close third of exporters behind Germany--in 2011 fuels was our No. 1 export believe it or not. Now economists are fond of saying that debt is our #1 export.

The USA could once compete with anybody in exports, but greedy unions and government meddling along with a government so bloated it is draining our economy dry is steadily eroding our competitiveness which is why we are now #3 in the world as an exporter of goods and products and our manufacturing base continues to flee to nations more friendly to profitability.

For imports, the USA is indeed #1 but China is close behind as #2 and is gaining on us as their economy grows while our economy continues to decline. Germany is a close 3rd behind China, Japan a distant 4th, and all others import less than the third of what the top importers do. The difference between us and China/Germany is that we now import a whole lot of stuff that we used to manufacture here. But again, business unfriendly rules and regs and greedy unions have made it less and less profitable to make things here, so we are forced to import more and more.

Maggie Thatcher was wise enough to see and understand trends like this. And that is why she acted as she did and could, despite the unpopularity that created among those whose ox was being gored. But when the ox is crushing everything else, it sometimes just has to be dealt with.