Man kills pastor during church service

[T-Bor]

the guy shouldn't be allowed medical service. He should be left to die right there on the floor with the priest. Hopefully, his death is slower.

 

[T-Bor]

I can recall sermons where I wanted to shoot myself, but never the preist guy.

 

[xsited1]

If someone else in that church had a gun ...





... that Pastor would still be dead.

So you were there. Could you tell us a little more about it? The news article is a little bit sketchy.

 

[WillowTree]

If someone else in that church had a gun ...





... that Pastor would still be dead.

Thank God the gun jammed otherwise who knows how many more would have been killed or wounded.

I would hate to be forced to use any weapon in church, but innocent unarmed citizens must be protected.

Yep, they were lucky the gun jammed.

Please don't take this as snark but my point stands that the Pastor would still have been shot and killed no matter what.

And I'm pretty much in agreement with what William Joyce just posted. I'm a pro-gun guy but packing to Church sounds outrageous to me.

It dosen't sound outrageous to the guys who pick churches for targets, they love it.. they count on you good guys being good.

 

[Article 15]

If someone else in that church had a gun ...





... that Pastor would still be dead.

So you were there. Could you tell us a little more about it? The news article is a little bit sketchy.

From the article:

The gunman walked in during the service and walked up to the pulpit, opening fire when he was met by Winters, Timmins said.

He didn't come in firing. He walked right up to the Pastor and shot him.

You tell me how that's a preventable situation short of medical detectors and security outside the church.

 

[xsited1]

If someone else in that church had a gun ...





... that Pastor would still be dead.

So you were there. Could you tell us a little more about it? The news article is a little bit sketchy.

From the article:

The gunman walked in during the service and walked up to the pulpit, opening fire when he was met by Winters, Timmins said.

He didn't come in firing. He walked right up to the Pastor and shot him.

You tell me how that's a preventable situation short of medical detectors and security outside the church.

It's pure speculation on your part. Do you think he would have walked into the church if he had known someone else might have a gun? We don't know. He fired several times. Did he miss? Would that have given someone time to take him out? We don't know. You would be surprised how fast people can draw a firearm. Someone might have been able to take him out after the first shot. Would that have made a difference? We don't know.

The fact is, we don't know. That includes you.

 

[Harry Dresden]

o fuck me willow.excuse me...only a sane mother fucker would shot the damn pastor....in church....like even a pagan knows that is most likely a one way ticket to hell.

so if i kill a pastor in church,in "GODS" eyes, this is worse than if i killed him out by the dumpster?......

 

[Article 15]

So you were there. Could you tell us a little more about it? The news article is a little bit sketchy.

From the article:

The gunman walked in during the service and walked up to the pulpit, opening fire when he was met by Winters, Timmins said.

He didn't come in firing. He walked right up to the Pastor and shot him.

You tell me how that's a preventable situation short of medical detectors and security outside the church.

It's pure speculation on your part. Do you think he would have walked into the church if he had known someone else might have a gun? We don't know. He fired several times. Did he miss? Would that have given someone time to take him out? We don't know. You would be surprised how fast people can draw a firearm. Someone might have been able to take him out after the first shot. Would that have made a difference? We don't know.

The fact is, we don't know. That includes you.

That's a helluva lot of what ifs there, x.

 

[strollingbones]

o fuck me willow.excuse me...only a sane mother fucker would shot the damn pastor....in church....like even a pagan knows that is most likely a one way ticket to hell.

so if i kill a pastor in church,in "GODS" eyes, this is worse than if i killed him out by the dumpster?......

i dont know how you god would react...but my goddess would be upset..if someone gunned down a priest or priestess in a house of worship...just saying..and yea...just like its worse to murder an infant than a scum sucking muslims...location does matter

 

[WillowTree]

o fuck me willow.excuse me...only a sane mother fucker would shot the damn pastor....in church....like even a pagan knows that is most likely a one way ticket to hell.

so if i kill a pastor in church,in "GODS" eyes, this is worse than if i killed him out by the dumpster?......

i dont know how you god would react...but my goddess would be upset..if someone gunned down a priest or priestess in a house of worship...just saying..and yea...just like its worse to murder an infant than a scum sucking muslims...location does matter

somebody has been spiking the punch again.. and it's Sunday too!

 

[random3434]

How many of you carry your guns to church? Just curious.

My brother takes his everywhere. (conceled of course)
My sister does too,in her purse.

 

[xsited1]

From the article:



He didn't come in firing. He walked right up to the Pastor and shot him.

You tell me how that's a preventable situation short of medical detectors and security outside the church.

It's pure speculation on your part. Do you think he would have walked into the church if he had known someone else might have a gun? We don't know. He fired several times. Did he miss? Would that have given someone time to take him out? We don't know. You would be surprised how fast people can draw a firearm. Someone might have been able to take him out after the first shot. Would that have made a difference? We don't know.

The fact is, we don't know. That includes you.

That's a helluva lot of what ifs there, x.

You give up too easily.

 

[xsited1]

How many of you carry your guns to church? Just curious.

My brother takes his everywhere. (conceled of course)
My sister does too,in her purse.

I do. And unlike Article 15, I am quite certain I could take that guy out after the first shot possibly saving the Pastor's life.

 

[WillowTree]

How many of you carry your guns to church? Just curious.

My brother takes his everywhere. (conceled of course)
My sister does too,in her purse.

I don't go to church,, but if I did.. I've applied for my concealed permit.. but that fact is it is unlawful to carry a concealed weapon into a building or event that is posted with a "No firearms" notice.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The pastor of a Maryville, Illinois church was shot to death in front of horrified parishioners during a service today, authorities said. Pastor Fred Winters was killed at the First Baptist Church of Maryville, Illinois state police spokesman Ralph Timmins told CNN affiliate KSDK. The suspect then pulled out a knife and wounded himself, Timmins said. Two worshippers who were attempting to detain him were also injured by the knife.

1 dead in Illinois church shooting, police say - CNN.com

I think that this should be illegal.

you mean its not?.....

 

[Article 15]

It's pure speculation on your part. We don't know. He fired several times. Did he miss? Would that have given someone time to take him out? We don't know. You would be surprised how fast people can draw a firearm. Someone might have been able to take him out after the first shot. Would that have made a difference? We don't know.

The fact is, we don't know. That includes you.

That's a helluva lot of what ifs there, x.

You give up too easily.

Give up? Alright ....

He fired several times. Did he miss?

Don't know but it certainly sounds like he was really close when he fired so I doubt it.

Do you think he would have walked into the church if he had known someone else might have a gun?

Yes, the article says that he turned the knife on himself when the gun jammed. That tells me this guy was planning on dying anyway.

You would be surprised how fast people can draw a firearm. Someone might have been able to take him out after the first shot. Would that have made a difference? We don't know.

No we don't but if someone gets that close before they fire the first shot there's a much better chance he's going to find his mark. Plus, there's no guarantee that the quickdraw hero in the pews is going to hit his target from a further distance.

You're "scenario" is far fetched.

 

[xsited1]

That's a helluva lot of what ifs there, x.

You give up too easily.

Give up? Alright ....



Don't know but it certainly sounds like he was really close when he fired so I doubt it.

Do you think he would have walked into the church if he had known someone else might have a gun?

Yes, the article says that he turned the knife on himself when the gun jammed. That tells me this guy was planning on dying anyway.

You would be surprised how fast people can draw a firearm. Someone might have been able to take him out after the first shot. Would that have made a difference? We don't know.

No we don't but if someone gets that close before they fire the first shot there's a much better chance he's going to find his mark. Plus, there's no guarantee that the quickdraw hero in the pews is going to hit his target from a further distance.

You're "scenario" is far fetched.

I always get a kick out of people who deal in absolutes. You said that the Pastor would have died anyway. I say that may not have been the case had someone had a gun in the church. Notice I didn't say he wouldn't have died. He might have.

We can agree on this: You believe you are absolutely right that the pastor would have died anyway. I believe it's not that simple.

Next.

 

[Missourian]

How many of you carry your guns to church? Just curious.

My brother takes his everywhere. (concealed of course)
My sister does too,in her purse.

In Missouri, places of worship are restricted areas for legally concealed weapons as are schools, colleges, concerts, sporting events, police stations, any establishment whose primary income is derived from the sale of alcohol and polling locations. As a responsible and law abiding gun owner, I obey those restrictions religiously...no pun intended.

 

[Article 15]

I always get a kick out of people who deal in absolutes. You said that the Pastor would have died anyway. I say that may not have been the case had someone had a gun in the church. Notice I didn't say he wouldn't have died. He might have.

We can agree on this: You believe you are absolutely right that the pastor would have died anyway. I believe it's not that simple.

Next.

Man you gave up pretty easily, too.

Anyway ...

Yes, I believe that he was going to die anyway. If you want to cling to some superman scenario that saves this guy's life, fine.

One thing I will agree with or put forward is that if someone else had a gun in the church it could prevent further loss of life. But that Pastor never had a chance.

 

[random3434]

How many of you carry your guns to church? Just curious.

My brother takes his everywhere. (concealed of course)
My sister does too,in her purse.

In Missouri, places of worship are restricted areas for legally concealed weapons as are schools, colleges, concerts, sporting events, police stations, any establishment whose primary income is derived from the sale of alcohol and polling locations. As a responsible and law abiding gun owner, I obey those restrictions religiously...no pun intended.

So,,,,,,, you're saying no guns allowed in these places, unless you're planning on shooting up the place? So maybe THAT'S why we hear so much about shootings taking place in the no gun zones.

Really, how does one protect themselves and their familes from the crazies if you can't carry?


I wonder if I can take my blow gun to church and school?