Male's right to abortion.

[RosieS]

Here are a few examples of how you are wrong. The reason woman can decide to have an abortion is because their body is the host to the fetus. The man or any individual for that matter does not have dominion over another person's body. Child support payments are just that, financial support for the child that the individual helped create. Our society decided that we would be better off if father's helped support their offspring instead of having the mother or the state take on that role.

That is the core difference. That really does not take away from the philosophical point that the OP makes though.

The facts are that life is not fair and neither is this scenario. At least we can admit that we are demanding something from the man that we are completely letting the woman off the hook for. It sucks for the man but oh well, there really is no 'fair' solution here.

That is one of the reasons that I don't like the term 'fair.' Life is very rarely fair at all.

The birth mother puts in the same 18 years raising the child as the father does.. If he leaves, she puts in much more toward raising that child than he ever does.

If the prospective father really is pro life, he needs to care for the birth mother, be there for her, but convince her to go with him to an adoption agency to give the child a better chance.

No...he just wants to dump the pregnancy he caused and run from responsibility.

You make a woman pregnant, you are responsible for HER well being during the pregnancy, too, ya morons.

Regards from Rosie

 

[FA_Q2]

At least we can admit that we are demanding something from the man that we are completely letting the woman off the hook for.

9 months of pregnancy, child birth and raising said child is hardly "letting women off the hook". If the man is not part of the child's life for whatever reason, all he is responsible for is sending a check to help support his offspring. That is absolutely fair.

Except that you compleatly ignored the fact that the woman can kill the unborn child and absolve herself of 100 percent of the responsibility just like that. Can the man? No, not at all. Then the woman, if she so chooses, can absolve herself AFTER the birth as well. Many states allow you to osimply drop the child off at a fire station or other government building with no questions asked. Or she can put the child up for adoption. Again, no responsibility whatsoever is taken by the mother for the child in those instances.

Does the man have any chance whatsoever to absolve himself? No, none whatsoever unless the woman ALLOWS him to.

So no, it is not fair at all. Not one iota. That is a FACT.

The real question is what to do about it. At this juncture, the answer is nothing - life is not fair so I don't expect all things to be fair, equitable or even right. Again, though, at least we can acknowledge that simple fact and square it with biological reality.

Here are a few examples of how you are wrong. The reason woman can decide to have an abortion is because their body is the host to the fetus. The man or any individual for that matter does not have dominion over another person's body. Child support payments are just that, financial support for the child that the individual helped create. Our society decided that we would be better off if father's helped support their offspring instead of having the mother or the state take on that role.

That is the core difference. That really does not take away from the philosophical point that the OP makes though.

The facts are that life is not fair and neither is this scenario. At least we can admit that we are demanding something from the man that we are completely letting the woman off the hook for. It sucks for the man but oh well, there really is no 'fair' solution here.

That is one of the reasons that I don't like the term 'fair.' Life is very rarely fair at all.

The birth mother puts in the same 18 years raising the child as the father does.. If he leaves, she puts in much more toward raising that child than he ever does.

If the prospective father really is pro life, he needs to care for the birth mother, be there for her, but convince her to go with him to an adoption agency to give the child a better chance.

No...he just wants to dump the pregnancy he caused and run from responsibility.

You make a woman pregnant, you are responsible for HER well being during the pregnancy, too, ya morons.

Regards from Rosie

Or she aborts and ends the child's life. Adopts and puts nothing toward raising the child (even MAKING money in many cases). Or she simply drops the child off at a fire station and walks away, also giving nothing to the raising of the child. All things that we allow 'mothers' to do and absolve them of any responsibility whatsoever.

None of which are offered to any man unless the mother deems it so. Again, a reality of biological facts. that is not going to change but it is the reality.

 

[Faun]

At least we can admit that we are demanding something from the man that we are completely letting the woman off the hook for.

9 months of pregnancy, child birth and raising said child is hardly "letting women off the hook". If the man is not part of the child's life for whatever reason, all he is responsible for is sending a check to help support his offspring. That is absolutely fair.

Except that you compleatly ignored the fact that the woman can kill the unborn child and absolve herself of 100 percent of the responsibility just like that. Can the man? No, not at all. Then the woman, if she so chooses, can absolve herself AFTER the birth as well. Many states allow you to osimply drop the child off at a fire station or other government building with no questions asked. Or she can put the child up for adoption. Again, no responsibility whatsoever is taken by the mother for the child in those instances.

Does the man have any chance whatsoever to absolve himself? No, none whatsoever unless the woman ALLOWS him to.

So no, it is not fair at all. Not one iota. That is a FACT.

The real question is what to do about it. At this juncture, the answer is nothing - life is not fair so I don't expect all things to be fair, equitable or even right. Again, though, at least we can acknowledge that simple fact and square it with biological reality.

That is the core difference. That really does not take away from the philosophical point that the OP makes though.

The facts are that life is not fair and neither is this scenario. At least we can admit that we are demanding something from the man that we are completely letting the woman off the hook for. It sucks for the man but oh well, there really is no 'fair' solution here.

That is one of the reasons that I don't like the term 'fair.' Life is very rarely fair at all.

The birth mother puts in the same 18 years raising the child as the father does.. If he leaves, she puts in much more toward raising that child than he ever does.

If the prospective father really is pro life, he needs to care for the birth mother, be there for her, but convince her to go with him to an adoption agency to give the child a better chance.

No...he just wants to dump the pregnancy he caused and run from responsibility.

You make a woman pregnant, you are responsible for HER well being during the pregnancy, too, ya morons.

Regards from Rosie

Or she aborts and ends the child's life. Adopts and puts nothing toward raising the child (even MAKING money in many cases). Or she simply drops the child off at a fire station and walks away, also giving nothing to the raising of the child. All things that we allow 'mothers' to do and absolve them of any responsibility whatsoever.

None of which are offered to any man unless the mother deems it so. Again, a reality of biological facts. that is not going to change but it is the reality.

Pregnancy is not fair. Take it up with G-d.

 

[Mathbud1]

9 months of pregnancy, child birth and raising said child is hardly "letting women off the hook". If the man is not part of the child's life for whatever reason, all he is responsible for is sending a check to help support his offspring. That is absolutely fair.

Except that you compleatly ignored the fact that the woman can kill the unborn child and absolve herself of 100 percent of the responsibility just like that. Can the man? No, not at all. Then the woman, if she so chooses, can absolve herself AFTER the birth as well. Many states allow you to osimply drop the child off at a fire station or other government building with no questions asked. Or she can put the child up for adoption. Again, no responsibility whatsoever is taken by the mother for the child in those instances.

Does the man have any chance whatsoever to absolve himself? No, none whatsoever unless the woman ALLOWS him to.

So no, it is not fair at all. Not one iota. That is a FACT.

The real question is what to do about it. At this juncture, the answer is nothing - life is not fair so I don't expect all things to be fair, equitable or even right. Again, though, at least we can acknowledge that simple fact and square it with biological reality.

The birth mother puts in the same 18 years raising the child as the father does.. If he leaves, she puts in much more toward raising that child than he ever does.

If the prospective father really is pro life, he needs to care for the birth mother, be there for her, but convince her to go with him to an adoption agency to give the child a better chance.

No...he just wants to dump the pregnancy he caused and run from responsibility.

You make a woman pregnant, you are responsible for HER well being during the pregnancy, too, ya morons.

Regards from Rosie

Or she aborts and ends the child's life. Adopts and puts nothing toward raising the child (even MAKING money in many cases). Or she simply drops the child off at a fire station and walks away, also giving nothing to the raising of the child. All things that we allow 'mothers' to do and absolve them of any responsibility whatsoever.

None of which are offered to any man unless the mother deems it so. Again, a reality of biological facts. that is not going to change but it is the reality.

Pregnancy is not fair. Take it up with G-d.

It is almost like you just like to argue or something. He litterally just got done saying he knows it isn't fair and doesn't think we should do anything about it, and yet you still have to try and argue with him.

 

[Mathbud1]

I think abortion is evil. I believe that because I believe that life begins at conception. In my view life is about possibilities. From the exact moment of conception a human life begins that holds the possibility of ending a hundred or more years in the future in a hospital bed surrounded by loved ones. There are an incalculable number of things that could cut that life short. Any one of those things that is an act perpetrated by a person to cut that life short is known as killing. Abortion is an act that cuts a life off in the womb, ending it before it can reach its potential. So, in my view, abortion is morally evil.

Abortion is also legal. I don't really think the government is supposed to control us morally. If you look at it from a religious perspective, God put us here with free will as a test. Take away that free will and the test is meaningless. Religion is concerned with the fate of our souls. Government is not. Government is concerned with the safety, well being, rights, freedom, and responsibilities of people here and now. Government should not, therefore, make laws respecting religion, religious beliefs, or morality.

For my own part I could never condone an abortion in any case where the life of the mother and/or the baby were not endangered. But I could not, I think, in good conscience take the right to choose away from the person most intimately affected by the pregnancy. Giving the father a "way out" may not strip the choice from the mother, but it does in my opinion put undue pressure on her to make the horrible choice to have an abortion. I can't support that either.

The law as it stands is probably the best compromise for the difficult situation. Unfortunately I think we are seeing more and more a breakdown of responsibility both personal and familial. People forget about responsibility and focus on entitlements and rights. We're just going to see more broken families, more deadbeat dads, and more abortions as long as that remains the case. I don't see it changing anytime soon.

So for now, I have to side with the crowd who say, "If you choose to have sex you choose to subject yourself to all the possible consequences that may follow." The fact that women have the freedom to choose abortion does not entitle men to a reciprocal freedom. In my opinion, the fewer avenues to escape responsibility the better.

 

[thanatos144]

it is the right to murder.....Not choose.

 

[Mathbud1]

it is the right to murder.....Not choose.

It isn't murder. I say that not to disagree with your sentiment, but to make a point. I think you use the word murder to convey a sense of how horrible it is rather than the legality of it. The word murder evokes very visceral feelings. I agree with you that it is horrible.

I can't stop myself from from waffling a little on the subject of abortion. I respect freedom a great deal, and it scares me to see government given too much power to limit it. On the other hand the sheer evilness of abortion scares me a lot too.

 

[FA_Q2]

it is the right to murder.....Not choose.

It isn't murder. I say that not to disagree with your sentiment, but to make a point. I think you use the word murder to convey a sense of how horrible it is rather than the legality of it. The word murder evokes very visceral feelings. I agree with you that it is horrible.

I can't stop myself from from waffling a little on the subject of abortion. I respect freedom a great deal, and it scares me to see government given too much power to limit it. On the other hand the sheer evilness of abortion scares me a lot too.

The right to kill.

That would be a more correct terminology for the statement.

 

[FA_Q2]

I think abortion is evil. I believe that because I believe that life begins at conception. In my view life is about possibilities. From the exact moment of conception a human life begins that holds the possibility of ending a hundred or more years in the future in a hospital bed surrounded by loved ones. There are an incalculable number of things that could cut that life short. Any one of those things that is an act perpetrated by a person to cut that life short is known as killing. Abortion is an act that cuts a life off in the womb, ending it before it can reach its potential. So, in my view, abortion is morally evil.

Abortion is also legal. I don't really think the government is supposed to control us morally. If you look at it from a religious perspective, God put us here with free will as a test. Take away that free will and the test is meaningless. Religion is concerned with the fate of our souls. Government is not. Government is concerned with the safety, well being, rights, freedom, and responsibilities of people here and now. Government should not, therefore, make laws respecting religion, religious beliefs, or morality.

For my own part I could never condone an abortion in any case where the life of the mother and/or the baby were not endangered. But I could not, I think, in good conscience take the right to choose away from the person most intimately affected by the pregnancy. Giving the father a "way out" may not strip the choice from the mother, but it does in my opinion put undue pressure on her to make the horrible choice to have an abortion. I can't support that either.

The law as it stands is probably the best compromise for the difficult situation. Unfortunately I think we are seeing more and more a breakdown of responsibility both personal and familial. People forget about responsibility and focus on entitlements and rights. We're just going to see more broken families, more deadbeat dads, and more abortions as long as that remains the case. I don't see it changing anytime soon.

So for now, I have to side with the crowd who say, "If you choose to have sex you choose to subject yourself to all the possible consequences that may follow." The fact that women have the freedom to choose abortion does not entitle men to a reciprocal freedom. In my opinion, the fewer avenues to escape responsibility the better.

Now THAT is well stated. Thank you.

I feel almost exactly the same way. The government is not here to prevent evil or define morality. That is for us to decide.

I have to state that my opinions on this have really been challenged recently as well. A friend of ours just had an abortion out of convenience (like the vast majority of abortions) and I thought I would be just fine considering I support the right. However, there were some pretty powerful feelings that occurred with me afterward and I cannot even look at her in the same manner anymore. She has done something unspeakable.

I STILL support that right but I certainly do not have to accept or support those that exercise it.

 

[hadit]

There certainly is something very primal about the urge to protect innocent, developing life that is violated when it is callously terminated.

 

[Noomi]

Well, if you anti choicers would put your money where your mouth is, maybe the abortion rate would drop?

 

[thanatos144]

Well, if you anti choicers would put your money where your mouth is, maybe the abortion rate would drop?

If you closed your legs every once in awhile the baby killing rate would drop as well.

 

[Noomi]

Well, if you anti choicers would put your money where your mouth is, maybe the abortion rate would drop?

If you closed your legs every once in awhile the baby killing rate would drop as well.

Typical right winger assuming that every woman who has an abortion is a slut.

 

[dilloduck]

Well, if you anti choicers would put your money where your mouth is, maybe the abortion rate would drop?

If you closed your legs every once in awhile the baby killing rate would drop as well.

Typical right winger assuming that every woman who has an abortion is a slut.

They're not sluts--they just made a very poor choice.

 

[Luissa]

If you closed your legs every once in awhile the baby killing rate would drop as well.

Typical right winger assuming that every woman who has an abortion is a slut.

They're not sluts--they just made a very poor choice.

Something you could never understand.

 

[thanatos144]

Typical right winger assuming that every woman who has an abortion is a slut.

They're not sluts--they just made a very poor choice.

Something you could never understand.

Was Gonna say something about your virtue but there is no bother since we all know anyway. The point is you open your legs. ... that was the choice. You can't always blame us men for your bad choices

tapatalk post

 

[Luissa]

They're not sluts--they just made a very poor choice.

Something you could never understand.

Was Gonna say something about your virtue but there is no bother since we all know anyway. The point is you open your legs. ... that was the choice. You can't always blame us men for your bad choices

tapatalk post

What the fuck are you talking about dirtbag?
And you know nothing about my virtue or what I have done or not done.
Please continue though, you look like scum not me.

 

[thanatos144]

Something you could never understand.

Was Gonna say something about your virtue but there is no bother since we all know anyway. The point is you open your legs. ... that was the choice. You can't always blame us men for your bad choices

tapatalk post

What the fuck are you talking about dirtbag?
And you know nothing about my virtue or what I have done or not done.
Please continue though, you look like scum not me.

Open nerve?

tapatalk post

 

[Luissa]

Was Gonna say something about your virtue but there is no bother since we all know anyway. The point is you open your legs. ... that was the choice. You can't always blame us men for your bad choices

tapatalk post

What the fuck are you talking about dirtbag?
And you know nothing about my virtue or what I have done or not done.
Please continue though, you look like scum not me.

Open nerve?

tapatalk post

No, not at all. I am a single mom, that would probably mean I didn't have one. Of course you would have to think before speaking..
You are just scum, and I enjoy pointing it out. Stupid and a scumbag, great combination.

 

[thanatos144]

What the fuck are you talking about dirtbag?
And you know nothing about my virtue or what I have done or not done.
Please continue though, you look like scum not me.

Open nerve?

tapatalk post

No, not at all. I am a single mom, that would probably mean I didn't have one. Of course you would have to think before speaking..
You are just scum, and I enjoy pointing it out. Stupid and a scumbag, great combination.

Guess I was right then

tapatalk post