Making animal rights and biocentrism a major political topic

[Londoner]

Nothing wrong with you being a vegan...until you start to force your views about meat eating onto others. Then you start to sound like just another PETA extremist.

I'm hoping there is a middle ground between being a PETA extremist and trying to reduce the pain we cause living things with nervous systems.

 

[Colin]

It already exists. What would you advocate for? Air, water and soil pollution, animal testing, over fishing, puppy mills, factory farms, clear cutting and deforestation, blowing up mountain tops, reducing protected forests and land, continuing finite resources, overpopulation, human supremacy, unsustainability, nuclear waste, war, killing reefs, etc etc?

Why do you use a porn model's picture as your avatar?

4 results - TinEye

NewbieNudes.com, The World's Best Amateur Nude Community - Profiles - Viewing Profile of Member: GirlNamedSam**

OMG, you mean that's not really syrenn??
LOL, gotta love the holler-than-thou rw's.

Where was he addressing Syrenn? If you read the post again you'll see it's addressed to Alex.

 

[Two Thumbs]

What is the most effective way of making animal rights a real political and ethical focus in this country? In addition, what is the most effective way to influence the masses towards a biocentric focus towards life instead of the superiority of the human species?

Should people be shown the images of slaughterhouses and processing plants around the country in order to truly know how they got their pork chop? Should people be forced to help kill and gut their cow before they sit down for their steak at a restaurant? Should people be allowed to use animals as entertainment even when that animal has no concept of what it is that is it being exploited for? Should people be allowed to abuse or neglect an animal? Should people experience the same anguish that animals feel when experimented on in order for them to have empathy for that life?

This is not an attempt to change minds. I am genuinely curious what everybody simply thinks on the matter. I myself am a proud vegan and advocate of animal rights and biocentrism, but i am just wondering what your thoughts are.

Since you are a biowhatsis, you should work the field on a blistering hot summer day before eating any veggies.

From sunup to sundown.

or shut the fuck up and come down off your high horse.

 

[editec]

What is the most effective way of making animal rights a real political and ethical focus in this country? In addition, what is the most effective way to influence the masses towards a biocentric focus towards life instead of the superiority of the human species?

Should people be shown the images of slaughterhouses and processing plants around the country in order to truly know how they got their pork chop? Should people be forced to help kill and gut their cow before they sit down for their steak at a restaurant? Should people be allowed to use animals as entertainment even when that animal has no concept of what it is that is it being exploited for? Should people be allowed to abuse or neglect an animal? Should people experience the same anguish that animals feel when experimented on in order for them to have empathy for that life?

This is not an attempt to change minds. I am genuinely curious what everybody simply thinks on the matter. I myself am a proud vegan and advocate of animal rights and biocentrism, but i am just wondering what your thoughts are.

I think our species is omnivorous and that a Paleolihic diet is the healthiest diet for mankind.

That diet includes a whole LOTTA MEAT, and NO GRAINS, NO LEGUMES, NO SUGAR and NO DAIRY products.

So a began diet is NOT, in my opinion (or that of many dieticians) really a healthy diet.

If you're overweight? Try giving up JUST grains. Just try it for a few months.

You will start losing weight like you would not believe.

You do NOT have to be hungry, you just need to give up eating wheat, corn, rice and any other grain food.

Replace those missing calaries with PROTEIN.

You'll thank me if you do.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why do you use a porn model's picture as your avatar?

4 results - TinEye

NewbieNudes.com, The World's Best Amateur Nude Community - Profiles - Viewing Profile of Member: GirlNamedSam**

OMG, you mean that's not really syrenn??
LOL, gotta love the holler-than-thou rw's.

Where was he addressing Syrenn? If you read the post again you'll see it's addressed to Alex.

That was the point I was making. Why didn't he call out Syrenn for doing the same thing?

I'd bet that no more than a very few posters use photos of themselves. Its dumb to criticize that.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What is the most effective way of making animal rights a real political and ethical focus in this country? In addition, what is the most effective way to influence the masses towards a biocentric focus towards life instead of the superiority of the human species?

Should people be shown the images of slaughterhouses and processing plants around the country in order to truly know how they got their pork chop? Should people be forced to help kill and gut their cow before they sit down for their steak at a restaurant? Should people be allowed to use animals as entertainment even when that animal has no concept of what it is that is it being exploited for? Should people be allowed to abuse or neglect an animal? Should people experience the same anguish that animals feel when experimented on in order for them to have empathy for that life?

This is not an attempt to change minds. I am genuinely curious what everybody simply thinks on the matter. I myself am a proud vegan and advocate of animal rights and biocentrism, but i am just wondering what your thoughts are.

I think our species is omnivorous and that a Paleolihic diet is the healthiest diet for mankind.

That diet includes a whole LOTTA MEAT, and NO GRAINS, NO LEGUMES, NO SUGAR and NO DAIRY products.

So a began diet is NOT, in my opinion (or that of many dieticians) really a healthy diet.

If you're overweight? Try giving up JUST grains. Just try it for a few months.

You will start losing weight like you would not believe.

You do NOT have to be hungry, you just need to give up eating wheat, corn, rice and any other grain food.

Replace those missing calaries with PROTEIN.

You'll thank me if you do.

First, you need to look up the definition of "omnivore". It does not mean "Atkins diet". Nor does it mean a [sic] "Paleolihic diet" aka "caveman diet".

What you suggest is much more extreme and radical than vegan (with a "v", not a "b") diet. IMO, we all need to say away from fad diets.

Being vegetarian/vegan does not mean being hungry or overweight.

And finally, our over-consumption of protein is directly related to the cause of death for most people who eat a so-called "traditional" American diet.

I avoid dietary protein and I get my protein from the same thing you do - the essential amino acids.

Eat what you want but don't try to say you know what you're doing and that Atkins is a healthy way to live.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Just FYI -

The Vegetarian Athlete Diet

Great Vegan Athletes | Great Vegan Athletes

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/

 

[sealadaigh]

What is the most effective way of making animal rights a real political and ethical focus in this country? In addition, what is the most effective way to influence the masses towards a biocentric focus towards life instead of the superiority of the human species?

Should people be shown the images of slaughterhouses and processing plants around the country in order to truly know how they got their pork chop? Should people be forced to help kill and gut their cow before they sit down for their steak at a restaurant? Should people be allowed to use animals as entertainment even when that animal has no concept of what it is that is it being exploited for? Should people be allowed to abuse or neglect an animal? Should people experience the same anguish that animals feel when experimented on in order for them to have empathy for that life?

This is not an attempt to change minds. I am genuinely curious what everybody simply thinks on the matter. I myself am a proud vegan and advocate of animal rights and biocentrism, but i am just wondering what your thoughts are.

Humans are animals and a pretty large minority apparently lack the intelligence to see that they are destroying the planet.

And yet still have more intelligence than any other species.....

Again, until you can show me that your dog understands the effect it's actions may have on the environment, or that a cow understands it is destined to be my dinner, the idea that other animals are on equal footing with humans when it comes to reasoning and intelligence is absurd. Mistaking compassion for animal life with equality in intelligence is, in itself, a stupid thing.

Somethings intelligence or ability to reason does not determine its value or right to life. All life on this planet has something to contribute to the super-organism that is called Earth. To say that just because the human species is able to do certain things that another species can't do therefore the human species is now superior and has dominion over the other species is not only arrogant but incredibly vicious. Intelligence the way we see it is a human invention. Basically an animal's intelligence is determined based on a comparison to what we deem intelligent, that being a comparison to human intelligence, and from that determination we impose value and worth onto those animals. We are basically an animal acting as a speciest dictator to the natural world just because we can add 2+2 and get 4.

maybe instead of thinking as animals as human, you may want to think of humans as animals.

maybe also, you may want to stop thinking that humans are not superior to other animals and instead start thinking that humans are biologically a very successful species.

and yes, we are more intelligent than other animals. no other animal can control their environment, conditions, use tools, create complex languages, etc. that's our selective advantage,...intelligence.

if you want to convince people of things, perhaps you should approach the issue a bit more pragmatically and realise that people are, indeed, animals , as you claim, and try to understand human behaviour. you mention "speciest dictator" and yet, you approach the problem with a dictatorial attitude.

i do not know of any animal, and that includes the human animal, who likes to be forced. they respond to being taught. if you try to force things like this, you will be met with little success.

did you know you can opt out of the rep system? if so, why haven't you? if not, why don't you?

 

[sealadaigh]

My goal is not to force a vegan lifestyle on people or force PETA's philosophy onto people. Would I love it if people could see the cruelty that we inflict on animals and change their way of living, of course, but I am realistic enough to know that not everybody, people like you for example, are capable of a vegan lifestyle or seeing animals as more than just test dummies for products, food for barbecues, and disposable property for entertainment.

With regards to your pet comment I have a dog that lives in my apartment with me that I rescued from abandonment, so from that alone I am not saying that you can't have pets, but it should be for the right reasons. Zoos are a double edged sword as well. They do help breed endangered species which is great but at the same time they keep animals behind cages for human entertainment. I am not saying shut them down, but their practices should be adjusted in my opinion.

I know you want to try and cast me as some sort of eco-terrorist but you are basing that on just a very few comments on mine regarding animals and the environment. You can be for something with a lot of passion and motivation without being a "terrorist". I have never been arrested at any the various environmental protests and rallies that I have attended since high school. The only thing that comes close is that i've been what the police call "detained" before but released a short time later, so I don't go around causing harmful trouble or doing illegal things. I think that sometimes a person needs to challenge barriers and confront with a loud voice and action towards established ways of thinking but you will not see me physically harm anybody.

first off.... you have a goal. That is agenda.

the agenda... your goal...as you clearly stated....is to force people to view and or slaughter animals.... to make them see where there meat comes from. To change them by guilt or disgust.


so ive asked you before...lets try again..

do you or anyone you know use over the counter or prescription drugs?
How about makeup, hair products or deodorants?

Physically forcing someone to watch or view is different from making it difficult for them not to see something. I am not saying we should take a person against their will and force them into a chair and show the footage of cruelty but people should know what happens behind the scenes. Every day people get bombarded with advertisements and marketing strategies. I am wanting that same thing but for a better purpose.
As for your question of course I know people that use those products. Any product that is tested on animals or that come from the use of animals is wrong in my opinion. I don't deny using products at one point in my life that were like that but now I try my best to use products that are not.

no one is stopping animal rights activists from paying for advertising or marketing.

if you want to be successful, or at least have a chance of being successful, you need to change your approach, and that applies to most animal rights activists.

here is a story. i am/was a labour activist...teamster 174, king county labor council...stuff like that. we were trying to organise the independents at the port of seattle. we were doing good, getting cards signed and all...waging a good public relations campaign and winning on that end, getting a lot of support from immigrant groups and interfaith groups. we had it in the bag.

then, some fool decided we needed a more demonstrative action so he had all these peeps spill out onto the west seattle freeway during the evening rush hour. everything went downhill after that, and went downhill fast. we never recovered and we let a lot of people who wanted to be organised down...and they had families that we let down too.

don't piss people off by being overbearing. use your head.

 

[Missourian]

Should people be forced to help kill and gut their cow before they sit down for their steak at a restaurant?

Will I get a discount?

 

[asterism]

OMG, you mean that's not really syrenn??
LOL, gotta love the holler-than-thou rw's.

Where was he addressing Syrenn? If you read the post again you'll see it's addressed to Alex.

That was the point I was making. Why didn't he call out Syrenn for doing the same thing?

I'd bet that no more than a very few posters use photos of themselves. Its dumb to criticize that.

Syrenn's pic was obviously that of a public person. I don't think that's the case with this person so I asked. I didn't criticize, I didn't call the poster out, I merely asked.

 

[Montrovant]

What we really need is to breed cows like the ones from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What we really need is to breed cows like the ones from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

I've said I used to live in AZ. Now I live in the midwest, cattle country. I travel a couple of days a week and drive through that cattle country. Long rolling hills of green, lots of "farm ponds", beautiful trees, birds, and all the rest.

And, of course, "for sale by owner", bank auctions, deserted ranches -

Even so, its easy to see why so many people believe we are the land of plenty and that we can afford our "throw away" society. All you have to do is dig down just one layer to learn that -

- it takes about the same amount of water to float a battleship as it does to put a steak on your table.

If you want to know more, earthsave.com

 

[Luddly Neddite]

where was he addressing syrenn? If you read the post again you'll see it's addressed to alex.

that was the point i was making. Why didn't he call out syrenn for doing the same thing?

I'd bet that no more than a very few posters use photos of themselves. Its dumb to criticize that.

syrenn's pic was obviously that of a public person. I don't think that's the case with this person so i asked. I didn't criticize, i didn't call the poster out, i merely asked.

Oh.

Thanks so much for clearing that up.

 

[Montrovant]

What we really need is to breed cows like the ones from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

I've said I used to live in AZ. Now I live in the midwest, cattle country. I travel a couple of days a week and drive through that cattle country. Long rolling hills of green, lots of "farm ponds", beautiful trees, birds, and all the rest.

And, of course, "for sale by owner", bank auctions, deserted ranches -

Even so, its easy to see why so many people believe we are the land of plenty and that we can afford our "throw away" society. All you have to do is dig down just one layer to learn that -

- it takes about the same amount of water to float a battleship as it does to put a steak on your table.

If you want to know more, earthsave.com

I'm not sure why you think my obviously joking one-liner deserved this response.....

How much water does it take to grow the plants you have to eat to equal the meat from that steak, I wonder?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What we really need is to breed cows like the ones from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

I've said I used to live in AZ. Now I live in the midwest, cattle country. I travel a couple of days a week and drive through that cattle country. Long rolling hills of green, lots of "farm ponds", beautiful trees, birds, and all the rest.

And, of course, "for sale by owner", bank auctions, deserted ranches -

Even so, its easy to see why so many people believe we are the land of plenty and that we can afford our "throw away" society. All you have to do is dig down just one layer to learn that -

- it takes about the same amount of water to float a battleship as it does to put a steak on your table.

If you want to know more, earthsave.com

I'm not sure why you think my obviously joking one-liner deserved this response.....

How much water does it take to grow the plants you have to eat to equal the meat from that steak, I wonder?

The "collateral damage" argument for eating meat. I was wondering how long before someone would bring that up.

There are a lot of holes is this ... One is that meat eaters also eat plants. That means that they eat even more plants than I do because the animals they eat also eat plants.

Think about it. Your question is "How much water does it take to grow the plants you have to eat to equal the meat from that steak?"

I eat the plants I eat.

You eat the plants you eat PLUS the plants the "food animals" eat.

So, the amount of water you use is enormous when compared to the amount of water I use.

PLUS, you use other resources as well. Most of the antibiotics used in the US (other countries too) are given to "food animals".

Meat eaters are sicker than vegetarians/vegans and meat eater's illnesses are more often fatal so they use even more resources that others must pay for.

It might have been you who stated that vegans don't get the nutrients they need. If one eats nothing Pepsi and Cheetos, they can call themselves vegan but if one eats a healthy diet comprised of a large variety of foods, they easily get the nutrients they need.

It used to be believed that vegetarians/vegans should "combine" foods to make sure they got sufficient nutrients. That has long been shown to be untrue.

I'll say it again - eat anything you want.

 

[Montrovant]

I've said I used to live in AZ. Now I live in the midwest, cattle country. I travel a couple of days a week and drive through that cattle country. Long rolling hills of green, lots of "farm ponds", beautiful trees, birds, and all the rest.

And, of course, "for sale by owner", bank auctions, deserted ranches -

Even so, its easy to see why so many people believe we are the land of plenty and that we can afford our "throw away" society. All you have to do is dig down just one layer to learn that -

- it takes about the same amount of water to float a battleship as it does to put a steak on your table.

If you want to know more, earthsave.com

I'm not sure why you think my obviously joking one-liner deserved this response.....

How much water does it take to grow the plants you have to eat to equal the meat from that steak, I wonder?

The "collateral damage" argument for eating meat. I was wondering how long before someone would bring that up.

There are a lot of holes is this ... One is that meat eaters also eat plants. That means that they eat even more plants than I do because the animals they eat also eat plants.

Think about it. Your question is "How much water does it take to grow the plants you have to eat to equal the meat from that steak?"

I eat the plants I eat.

You eat the plants you eat PLUS the plants the "food animals" eat.

So, the amount of water you use is enormous when compared to the amount of water I use.

PLUS, you use other resources as well. Most of the antibiotics used in the US (other countries too) are given to "food animals".

Meat eaters are sicker than vegetarians/vegans and meat eater's illnesses are more often fatal so they use even more resources that others must pay for.

It might have been you who stated that vegans don't get the nutrients they need. If one eats nothing Pepsi and Cheetos, they can call themselves vegan but if one eats a healthy diet comprised of a large variety of foods, they easily get the nutrients they need.

It used to be believed that vegetarians/vegans should "combine" foods to make sure they got sufficient nutrients. That has long been shown to be untrue.

I'll say it again - eat anything you want.

Wow, that's a lot of projecting!

I made a joking post, you replied with a serious one involving the amount of water needed for a steak.

I questioned how much water it would take for an equivalent amount of plant food, you seemingly assume I mean to argue against eating the plants, or something like that.

You obviously have your opinion on the matter and are looking for any opportunity, real or imagined, to interject it.

Have fun with that!

And for those who are unaware, the cows from the book The Restaurant at the End of the Universe were bred to WANT people to eat them, and would in fact walk up to the diners' table and offer various portions of themselves.

 

[April]

Ideas, perspectives, political stances, and opinions are imposed on people every single day. Showing people the cruelty behind certain businesses and practices is free speech and in many cases necessary in my opinion.

Within reason. When reason is abandoned, one ends up doing more harm than good to their cause. You don't want to give your cause a black eye, nor your movement a bad reputation. Private Property, Privacy, are Unalienable Rights, when yours is under attack, I'm sure, you realize the injustice of the offending action. Even here, for Example, Graphic Images are Moderated, to Protect, not from reality, but, shock and hurt, among other things. Permanently Scaring the unsuspecting, with shock value, weighing against permanently slamming shut channels of communication as a result, serves what end.

Even now, your message of protecting animals against abuse, even more humane ways of animal slaughter, is side tracked by the discussion of why should you be permitted to say or do anything that you perceive will further a cause.

Most people have no idea where their meats came from and how it was processed. Thanksgiving is coming up for example. Millions of turkeys are being killed right now in preparation for the holiday.

People choose not to know because if they know then they will feel guilt. I think sometimes it is necessary for people to be shown something without knowing it is coming so that they are confronted with what happens.

Not all instances are appropriate of course but the majority in my opinion are. If more people knew the cruelty behind the meat processing business and even in the scientific community with regards to research on animals I think they'd probably understand where animal rights activists are coming from. Not everybody of course since some people have no problems with the process and with animal testing.

Not necessarily...I think you're wrong about that.
I've seen documentaries, extremely graphic pix, etc. on what is done in processing and preparing the meat from a cow...it was disturbing to me, yes...but did it change my mind not to go to the meat market and get me some steak and hamburger meat to feed myself and my family the next day or week?
No.
And I know I am not the only one who does not feel "guilt" after they have seen what is done to a cow or pig or chicken to receive the meat for consumption...

 

[Two Thumbs]

What is the most effective way of making animal rights a real political and ethical focus in this country? In addition, what is the most effective way to influence the masses towards a biocentric focus towards life instead of the superiority of the human species?

Should people be shown the images of slaughterhouses and processing plants around the country in order to truly know how they got their pork chop? Should people be forced to help kill and gut their cow before they sit down for their steak at a restaurant? Should people be allowed to use animals as entertainment even when that animal has no concept of what it is that is it being exploited for? Should people be allowed to abuse or neglect an animal? Should people experience the same anguish that animals feel when experimented on in order for them to have empathy for that life?

This is not an attempt to change minds. I am genuinely curious what everybody simply thinks on the matter. I myself am a proud vegan and advocate of animal rights and biocentrism, but i am just wondering what your thoughts are.

Since you are a biowhatsis, you should work the field on a blistering hot summer day before eating any veggies.

From sunup to sundown.

or shut the fuck up and come down off your high horse.

Little Two much honesty?

 

[nodoginnafight]

What is the most effective way of making animal rights a real political and ethical focus in this country? In addition, what is the most effective way to influence the masses towards a biocentric focus towards life instead of the superiority of the human species?

Should people be shown the images of slaughterhouses and processing plants around the country in order to truly know how they got their pork chop? Should people be forced to help kill and gut their cow before they sit down for their steak at a restaurant? Should people be allowed to use animals as entertainment even when that animal has no concept of what it is that is it being exploited for? Should people be allowed to abuse or neglect an animal? Should people experience the same anguish that animals feel when experimented on in order for them to have empathy for that life?

This is not an attempt to change minds. I am genuinely curious what everybody simply thinks on the matter. I myself am a proud vegan and advocate of animal rights and biocentrism, but i am just wondering what your thoughts are.

Since you are a biowhatsis, you should work the field on a blistering hot summer day before eating any veggies.

From sunup to sundown.

or shut the fuck up and come down off your high horse.

Little Two much honesty?

Little too much vitrol and vulgarity for this forum.