Looking at the numbers show holes in Democrat’s arguments

Discussion in 'Politics' started by miami_thomas, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    I decided to go back and look at the numbers when it comes to the Democrat arguments. Below I have listed the numbers under each president since Woodrow Wilson through president Obama. I listed the revenues, expenditures, surplus/deficits, accumulated debt, and GDP for each year. The first number under each is the amount in billions. The second number is the percent increase from the previous year. The last number in each column is the percent of GDP. I also added a section showing what the numbers would be if the Bush tax cuts had expired at the beginning of president Obama’s term.

    The first thing that sticks out is that we are spending at the highest level since FDR and that was during World War 2. Matter of fact the only presidents to spend as much as Obama are FDR and Woodrow Wilson and both are involved in World Wars. Next you can see that the argument that the issue with deficits is with the Bush tax cuts for the rich does not hold up. The estimate from the CBO is the tax cuts are worth 1 trillion dollars over 10 years. Now I realize the number is smaller in the beginning and bigger in the end but I decide to be generous. I added 100 billion each year which is what 1 trillion over 10 years would be. You can see it does not do much good.

    Next thing you notice is that the revenues drop significantly at the beginning of 2008 not 2001 or 2003 when the Bush tax cuts went in. Now the revenues did drop briefly in 2003 and 2004 but rebounded to a normal rate in 2005 under Bush. The normal rate seems to sit around 17 and 19 percent of GDP for revenue. That of course would mean spending should be somewhere just below revenue at around 16 to 18 percent of GDP depending on revenues. But actually it needs to be much lower.

    Look at the Clinton years where we actually had a surplus for once and notice the debt continued to climb. Notice that even at a surplus of 236 billion the debt still grew by 23 billion. So I actually had to dig a little to see why but as it turns out it is the interest on the debt we currently held. Interesting that is not counted in expenditures but I digress. This would mean that spending would actually need to be somewhere around 5 percent below revenues just to make ends meet.

    Last but not least is the talk about how the tax on the wealthy when FDR was president was 91 percent. Well if you look at the data you can tell that no one was paying a 91 percent rate. You can see by the data that the highest revenues ever got as a percent of GDP was 23% and even that was too high as you can see that we started to go into a recession.

    Woodrow Wilson/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1913 $1.0 /11% /2% $1.0 /11% /3% $0.0 -$2.9 /0% /7% $39.1 /5%
    1914 $0.9 /-10%/3% $1.0 /0% /3% -$0.1 -$2.9 /0% /8% $36.5 /-7%
    1915 $0.8 /-11%/2% $1.1 /10% /3% -$0.2 -$3.1 /7% /8% $38.7 /6%
    1916 $0.9 /13% /2% $1.0 /-9% /2% -$0.2 -$3.6 /16% /7% $49.6 /28%
    1917 $1.2 /33% /2% $2.3 /130%/4% -$1.1 -$5.7 /58% /10% $59.7 /20%
    1918 $4.0 /233%/2% $13.0 /465%/17% -$9.0 -$14.6 /156%/19% $75.8 /27%
    1919 $5.7 /43% /5% $18.9 /45% /24% -$13.2 -$27.4 /88% /35% $78.3 /3%
    1920 $7.4 /30% /7% $6.8 /-64%/8% +$0.6 -$26.0 /-5% /29% $88.4 /13%
    Warren G. Harding/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1921 $6.2 /-16%/8% $5.5 /-19%/7% +$0.7 -$24.0 /-8%/33% $73.6 /-17%
    1922 $4.3 /-31%/6% $3.8 /-31%/5% +$0.5 -$23.0 /-4%/31% $73.4 /0%
    Calvin Coolidge/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1923 $4.3 /0% /5% $3.7 /-3% /4% +$0.6 -$22.3 /-3%/26% $85.4 /16%
    1924 $4.3 /0% /5% $3.7 /0% /4% +$0.6 -$21.3 /-4%/25% $86.9 /2%
    1925 $4.0 /-7% /4% $3.6 /-3% /4% +$0.4 -$20.5 /-4%/23% $90.6 /4%
    1926 $4.2 /5% /4% $3.6 /0% /4% +$0.6 -$19.6 /-4%/20% $96.9 /7%
    1927 $4.5 /7% /5% $3.5 /-3% /4% +$0.9 -$18.5 /-6%/19% $95.5 /-1%
    1928 $4.3 /-4% /4% $3.7 /6% /4% +$0.7 -$17.6 /-5%/18% $97.4 /2%
    Herbert Hoover/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1929 $4.3 /0% /4% $3.8 /3% /4% +$0.5 -$16.9 /-4%/16% $103.6 /6%
    1930 $4.8 /12% /5% $4.0 /5% /4% +$0.9 -$16.2 /-4%/18% $91.2 /-12%
    1931 $4.0 /-17%/5% $4.1 /2% /5% -$0.1 -$16.8 /4% /22% $76.5 /-16%
    1932 $2.6 /-35%/4% $4.3 /5% /7% -$1.6 -$19.5 /16%/33% $58.7 /-23%
    Franklin D. Roosevelt/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1933 $3.3 /27% /6% $5.1 /19% /9% -$1.8 -$22.5 /15%/40% $56.4 /-4%
    1934 $3.9 /18% /6% $5.9 /16% /9% -$2.1 -$27.1 /20%/41% $66.0 /17%
    1935 $4.5 /15% /6% $7.6 /29% /10% -$3.0 -$28.7 /6% /39% $73.3 /11%
    1936 $5.2 /16% /6% $9.2 /21% /11% -$4.0 -$33.8 /18%/40% $83.8 /14%
    1937 $6.2 /19% /7% $8.8 /-4% /10% -$2.6 -$36.4 /8% /40% $91.9 /10%
    1938 $7.2 /16% /8% $8.4 /-5% /10% -$1.2 -$37.2 /2% /43% $86.1 /-6%
    1939 $7.1 /-1% /8% $9.3 /11% /10% -$2.1 -$40.4 /9% /44% $92.2 /7%
    1940 $7.0 /-1% /7% $10.1 /9% /10% -$3.1 -$50.7 /25%/50% $101.4 /10%
    1941 $9.4 /34% /7% $14.2 /41% /11% -$4.7 -$57.5 /13%/45% $126.7 /25%
    1942 $16.1 /71% /10% $35.5 /150%/22% -$19.5 -$79.2 /38%/49% $161.9 /28%
    1943 $27.3 /70% /14% $83.0 /134%/42% -$55.7 -$142.6 /80%/72% $198.6 /23%
    1944 $51.4 /88% /23% $100.5 /21% /46% -$49.1 -$204.1 /43%/93% $219.8 /11%
    Harry S. Truman/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1945 $53.2 /4% /24% $106.9 /6% /48% -$53.7 -$260.1 /27%/117% $223.0 /1%
    1946 $46.4 /-13%/21% $66.5 /-38%/30% -$20.1 -$271.0 /4% /122% $222.2 /0%
    1947 $44.6 /-4% /18% $41.4 /-38%/17% +$3.2 -$257.1 /-5%/105% $244.1 /10%
    1948 $47.3 /6% /18% $35.6 /-14%/13% +$11.7 -$252.0 /-2%/94% $269.1 /10%
    1949 $44.2 /-7% /17% $40.2 /13% /15% +$4.0 -$252.6 /0% /95% $267.2 /-1%
    1950 $43.5 /-2% /15% $44.8 /11% /15% -$1.3 -$256.9 /2% /87% $293.7 /10%
    1951 $56.7 /30% /17% $48.9 /9% /14% +$7.8 -$255.3 /-1%/75% $339.3 /16%
    1952 $71.8 /27% /20% $71.6 /46% /20% +$0.2 -$259.1 /1% /72% $358.3 /6%
    Dwight D. Eisenhower/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1953 $74.2 /3% /20% $80.0 /12% /21% -$5.8 -$266.0 /3% /70% $379.3 /6%
    1954 $75.8 /2% /20% $77.7 /-3% /20% -$1.9 -$270.8 /2% /71% $380.4 /0%
    1955 $71.9 /-5% /17% $73.4 /-6% /18% -$1.5 -$274.4 /1% /66% $414.7 /9%
    1956 $81.3 /13% /19% $76.0 /4% /17% +$5.3 -$272.7 /-1%/62% $437.4 /5%
    1957 $87.1 /7% /19% $81.8 /8% /18% +$5.3 -$272.3 /0% /59% $461.1 /5%
    1958 $86.0 /-1% /18% $86.1 /5% /18% $0.0 -$279.7 /3% /60% $467.2 /1%
    1959 $85.5 /-1% /17% $93.5 /9% /18% -$8.1 -$287.5 /3% /57% $506.6 /8%
    1960 $99.8 /17% /19% $97.3 /4% /18% +$2.5 -$290.5 /1% /55% $526.4 /4%
    John F. Kennedy/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1961 $101.3 /2% /19% $104.9 /8% /19% -$3.5 -$292.6 /1% /54% $544.8 /3%
    1962 $99.7 /-2% /17% $106.8 /2% /18% -$7.1 -$302.9 /4% /52% $585.7 /8%
    Lyndon B. Johnson/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1963 $106.6 /7% /17% $111.3 /4% /18% -$4.8 -$310.3 /2% /50% $617.8 /5%
    1964 $112.6 /6% /17% $118.5 /6% /18% -$5.9 -$316.1 /2% /48% $663.6 /7%
    1965 $116.8 /4% /16% $118.2 /0% /16% -$1.4 -$322.3 /2% /45% $719.1 /8%
    1966 $130.8 /12% /17% $134.5 /14% /17% -$3.7 -$328.5 /2% /42% $787.7 /10%
    1967 $148.8 /14% /18% $157.5 /17% /19% -$8.6 -$340.4 /4% /41% $832.4 /6%
    1968 $153.0 /3% /17% $178.1 /13% /20% -$25.2 -$368.7 /8% /41% $909.8 /9%
    Richard Nixon/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1969 $186.9 /22% /19% $183.6 /3% /19% +$3.2 -$365.8 /-1%/37% $984.4 /8%
    1970 $192.8 /3% /19% $195.6 /7% /19% -$2.8 -$380.9 /4% /37% $1,038.3/5%
    1971 $187.1 /-3% /17% $210.2 /7% /19% -$23.0 -$408.2 /7% /36% $1,126.8/9%
    1972 $207.3 /11% /17% $230.7 /10% /19% -$23.4 -$435.9 /7% /35% $1,237.9/10%
    1973 $230.8 /11% /17% $245.7 /7% /18% -$14.9 -$466.3 /7% /34% $1,382.3/12%
    Gerald Ford/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1974 $263.2 /14% /18% $269.4 /10% /18% -$6.1 -$483.9 /4% /32% $1,499.5/8%
    1975 $279.1 /6% /17% $332.3 /23% /20% -$53.2 -$541.9 /12%/33% $1,637.7/9%
    1976 $298.1 /7% /16% $371.8 /12% /20% -$73.7 -$629.0 /16%/34% $1,824.6/11%
    Jimmy Carter/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1977 $355.6 /19% /18% $409.2 /10% /20% -$53.7 -$706.4 /12%/35% $2,030.1/11%
    1978 $399.6 /12% /17% $458.7 /12% /20% -$59.2 -$776.6 /10%/34% $2,293.8/13%
    1979 $463.3 /16% /18% $504.0 /10% /20% -$40.7 -$829.5 /7% /32% $2,562.2/12%
    1980 $517.1 /12% /19% $590.9 /17% /21% -$73.8 -$909.0 /10%/33% $2,788.1/9%
    Ronald Reagan/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1981 $599.3 /16% /19% $678.2 /15% /22% -$79.0 -$994.8 /9% /32% $3,126.8/12%
    1982 $617.8 /3% /19% $745.7 /10% /23% -$128.0 -$1,137.3/14%/35% $3,253.2/4%
    1983 $600.6 /-3% /17% $808.4 /8% /23% -$207.8 -$1,371.7/21%/39% $3,534.6/9%
    1984 $666.4 /11% /17% $851.8 /5% /22% -$185.4 -$1,564.6/14%/40% $3,930.9/11%
    1985 $734.0 /10% /17% $946.3 /11% /22% -$212.3 -$1,817.4/16%/43% $4,217.5/7%
    1986 $769.2 /5% /17% $990.4 /5% /22% -$221.2 -$2,120.5/17%/48% $4,460.1/6%
    1987 $854.3 /11% /18% $1,004.0/1% /21% -$149.7 -$2,346.0/11%/50% $4,736.4/6%
    1988 $909.2 /6% /18% $1,064.4/6% /21% -$155.2 -$2,601.1/11%/51% $5,100.4/8%
    George H. W. Bush/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1989 $991.1 /9% /18% $1,143.7/7% /21% -$152.6 -$2,867.8/10%/52% $5,482.1/7%
    1990 $1,032.0/4% /18% $1,253.0/10% /22% -$221.0 -$3,206.3/12%/55% $5,800.5/6%
    1991 $1,055.0/2% /18% $1,324.2/6% /22% -$269.2 -$3,598.2/12%/60% $5,992.1/3%
    1992 $1,091.2/3% /17% $1,381.5/4% /22% -$290.3 -$4,001.8/11%/63% $6,342.3/6%
    Bill Clinton/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    1993 $1,154.0/6% /17% $1,409.4/2% /21% -$255.1 -$4,351.0/9% /65% $6,667.4/5%
    1994 $1,258.6/9% /18% $1,461.8/4% /21% -$203.2 -$4,643.3/7% /66% $7,085.2/6%
    1995 $1,351.8/7% /18% $1,515.8/4% /20% -$164.0 -$4,920.6/6% /66% $7,414.7/5%
    1996 $1,453.1/7% /19% $1,560.5/3% /20% -$107.4 -$5,181.5/5% /66% $7,838.5/6%
    1997 $1,579.2/9% /19% $1,610.1/3% /19% -$21.9 -$5,369.2/4% /65% $8,270.5/6%
    1998 $1,721.7/9% /20% $1,652.5/3% /19% +$69.3 -$5,478.2/2% /63% $8,727.0/6%
    1999 $1,827.5/6% /20% $1,701.8/3% /18% +$125.6 -$5,605.5/2% /60% $9,286.9/6%
    2000 $2,026.2/11% /20% $1,789.0/5% /18% +$236.2 -$5,628.7/0% /57% $9,884.2/6%
    George W. Bush/Republican
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    2001 $1,991.1/-2% /19% $1,862.9/4% /18% +$128.2 -$5,769.9/3% /56% $10,218.0/3%
    2002 $1,853.1/-7% /18% $2,010.9/8% /19% -$157.8 -$6,198.4/7% /59% $10,572.4/3%
    2003 $1,782.3/-4% /16% $2,159.9/7% /20% -$377.6 -$6,760.0/9% /61% $11,067.8/5%
    2004 $1,880.1/5% /16% $2,252.9/4% /19% -$412.7 -$7,354.7/9% /62% $11,788.9/7%
    2005 $2,153.6/15% /17% $2,472.0/10% /20% -$318.3 -$7,905.3/7% /63% $12,554.5/6%
    2006 $2,406.9/12% /18% $2,655.1/7% /20% -$248.2 -$8,451.4/7% /63% $13,310.9/6%
    2007 $2,568.0/7% /18% $2,728.7/3% /20% -$160.7 -$8,950.8/6% /64% $13,969.3/5%
    2008 $2,524.0/-2% /18% $2,982.5/9% /21% -$458.6 -$9,986.1/12%/70% $14,270.5/2%
    Barack Obama/Democratic
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    2009 $2,105.0/-17%/15% $3,517.7/18% /25% -$1,412.7 -$11,875.9/19%/85% $14,014.8/-2%
    2010 $2,162.7/3% /15% $3,456.2/-2% /24% -$1,293.5 -$13,528.8/14%/93% $14,551.8/4%
    2011 $2,303.5/7% /15% $3,603.1/4% /24% -$1,299.6 -$14,764.2/9% /99% $14,958.6/3%
    2012 $2,468.6/7% /16% $3,795.6/5% /24% -$1,327.0 -$16,350.9/11%/105% $15,601.5/4%
    (Est)
    Barack Obama/Democratic - If Bush Tax Cuts Had Expired On The Wealthy
    Year Tax Revenue Expenditures Sur/Def Total Debt GDP
    2009 $2,205.0/-13%/16% $3,517.7/18% /25% -$1,312.7 -$11,775.9/18%/84% $14,014.8/-2%
    2010 $2,262.7/3% /16% $3,456.2/-2% /24% -$1,193.5 -$13,328.8/13%/92% $14,551.8/4%
    2011 $2,403.5/6% /16% $3,603.1/4% /24% -$1,199.6 -$14,464.2/9% /97% $14,958.6/3%
    2012 $2,568.6/7% /16% $3,795.6/5% /24% -$1,227.0 -$15,950.9/10%/102% $15,601.5/4%
    (Est)

    I gathered my data at http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com.
     
  2. Decepticon
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    Decepticon BANNED

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    [​IMG]

    yes, your source certainly shows that spending didn't go up under Republican President's terms.
     
  3. asaratis
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    asaratis Uppity Senior Citizen Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    6Good work...except there was no surplus under Clinton...or any other President of the modern day. Clinton's prescribed method of accounting created a false surplus.
     
  4. Decepticon
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    Decepticon BANNED

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    ALL THESE GRAPHS COME FROM YOUR SOURCE...

    Spending as a percentage of GDP is lower NOW than when Reagan was in office.

    [​IMG]

    Deficits went UP during Reagan and Bush, down during Clinton and UP again during Bush.
    [​IMG]

    The debt did the same.
    [​IMG]



    Now, lets look at what portion of the deficits Obama is running up that you CONZ have such a problem with...


    [​IMG]
    Golly, MOST of Obama's deficits are for things that were PERFECTLY OK TO USE THE CREDIT CARD WHEN BUSH WAS IN OFFICE, weren't they?

    Funny how you didn't post the graphs with your post. But then, when they say the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you claim, it's not very surprising, is it?
     
  5. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    LOL Obama Fluffers have Jobs "Saved" and "Cost of new policies"

    LOL

    Fucking hilarious
     
  6. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    Did I say it did not? To argue that it went up to 21% under Bush so it is ok if it is at 24% under Obama is not a good argument. The expenditures need to go down no matter who the president is.
     
  7. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    Spending at the beginning of the Reagan presidency was at 23% and went down to 21% of GDP in 1987 and 1988. The spending currently is at 24%. Lastly spending was to high then and it is too high now. Again using he did so it is ok if we do is not a good argument. Lastly to say Obama adding to the debt of Bush which added to the Debt of Clinton, which added to the Debt of Bush, etc... is not the argument to keep spending.

    Look at the numbers. Spending as a percent of GDP has been at 24% every year under Obama. It never reached higher than 23% under Reagan and that was inherited from Carter. Spending never went above 21% under Bush. Both 23% and 21% was too high we have to be at around 12 to 14% no matter who is in office.

    My argument is that the democrat argument that revenues are the problem and spending is not is wrong.
     
  8. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    Duh, Duh. Look at the numbers that I provided. Compare them if you want. The numbers are correct but you say a chart is more accurate than the actual numbers?
     
  9. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    I noted that in one of the paragraphs. There was a surplus between expenditures and revenues but the interest on the debt was not counted as expenditure.
     
  10. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    I find it interesting that the only democrat to argue has to changes the subject instead of discussing the facts.
     

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