Lloyd Hart, master occupier talks about Occupy movement's demands on radio

[Dragon]

I have sufficient evidence to connect OWS to Tides & the Commie.

Bullshit. Cards on the table time. Show what ya got, or ya got nothin'.

You find your own evidence - or carry on pretending there is none. It is of no consequence to me.

If that were true, you wouldn't have posted about it.

If you have evidence, share it. If you won't, you prove you have nothing.

 

[California Girl]

I have sufficient evidence to connect OWS to Tides & the Commie.

Bullshit. Cards on the table time. Show what ya got, or ya got nothin'.

You find your own evidence - or carry on pretending there is none. It is of no consequence to me.

If that were true, you wouldn't have posted about it.

If you have evidence, share it. If you won't, you prove you have nothing.

It's not a pissing contest, no matter how much you want it to be. I do my own research, I suggest you do likewise. Of course, you do need to make more of an effort than calling 'google' research.

Go find out for yourself, lazy commie.

 

[Dragon]

It's not a pissing contest, no matter how much you want it to be. I do my own research, I suggest you do likewise. Of course, you do need to make more of an effort than calling 'google' research.

Go find out for yourself, lazy commie.

In other words, you have nothing, and are talking out your ass. Just as I suspected.

 

[California Girl]

It's not a pissing contest, no matter how much you want it to be. I do my own research, I suggest you do likewise. Of course, you do need to make more of an effort than calling 'google' research.

Go find out for yourself, lazy commie.

In other words, you have nothing, and are talking out your ass. Just as I suspected.

You can 'suspect' all you want. Means jack shit to me. I am well known on this board for not spoon feeding others. You want to know something, you find out about it. And you do so by reading the shit you disagree with instead of mindlessly parroting crap that you accept as 'true'.

It's not rocket science, but you do have to dig. I will not pay for your shovel. You buy your own.

 

[Dragon]

You can 'suspect' all you want. Means jack shit to me. I am well known on this board for not spoon feeding others. You want to know something, you find out about it. And you do so by reading the shit you disagree with instead of mindlessly parroting crap that you accept as 'true'.

It's not rocket science, but you do have to dig. I will not pay for your shovel. You buy your own.

You have no shovel. You have no dirt. You are talking out your ass. You have made an assertion, an extremely unlikely assertion at that, and refuse to back it up with evidence.

If that's the way you behave, then you aren't well known on this board for "not spoon feeding others," you are well known for making claims (and making shit up) and refusing to support your statements. Which is exactly what you are doing now.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's not a pissing contest, no matter how much you want it to be. I do my own research, I suggest you do likewise. Of course, you do need to make more of an effort than calling 'google' research.

Go find out for yourself, lazy commie.

In other words, you have nothing, and are talking out your ass. Just as I suspected.

You can 'suspect' all you want. Means jack shit to me. I am well known on this board for not spoon feeding others. You want to know something, you find out about it. And you do so by reading the shit you disagree with instead of mindlessly parroting crap that you accept as 'true'.

It's not rocket science, but you do have to dig. I will not pay for your shovel. You buy your own.

You already posted up the connections with links on the forum last week when we started discussing how this movement wasn't spontanious nor grassroots but pre-planned and supported by rich liberal interest groups.

 

[Dragon]

You already posted up the connections with links on the forum last week when we started discussing how this movement wasn't spontanious nor grassroots but pre-planned and supported by rich liberal interest groups.

And they were evidence of nothing except that rich liberal groups have wanted something like this to happen for years, and now that it is are trying to co-opt it (or, to be charitable, showing it support).

The only thing that would support CG's claims is evidence that most of the participants in OWS recognize the leadership of these liberal groups, and are there because they were called to be there. Show that, and you have something. Fail to do so, and you have nothing.

In fact, I see criticism of the movement from the right taking two inherently contradictory forms. On the one hand, there is the mischaracterization of it as all top-down, pre-planned, and controlled by a conspiracy. On the other, there is the accusation (with a bit more evidence behind it) that it is incoherent, disorganized, messy, and chaotic. It really can't be both of those.

The reality is that this is a grass-roots movement, or, as I described it in an article here, a mushroom: Occupy Wall Street is a Mushroom | Socyberty

 

[Si modo]

You already posted up the connections with links on the forum last week when we started discussing how this movement wasn't spontanious nor grassroots but pre-planned and supported by rich liberal interest groups.

And they were evidence of nothing except that rich liberal groups have wanted something like this to happen for years, and now that it is are trying to co-opt it (or, to be charitable, showing it support).

The only thing that would support CG's claims is evidence that most of the participants in OWS recognize the leadership of these liberal groups, and are there because they were called to be there. Show that, and you have something. Fail to do so, and you have nothing.

In fact, I see criticism of the movement from the right taking two inherently contradictory forms. On the one hand, there is the mischaracterization of it as all top-down, pre-planned, and controlled by a conspiracy. On the other, there is the accusation (with a bit more evidence behind it) that it is incoherent, disorganized, messy, and chaotic. It really can't be both of those.

The reality is that this is a grass-roots movement, or, as I described it in an article here, a mushroom: Occupy Wall Street is a Mushroom | Socyberty

Actually, it can be both, and it likely is by design.

Lenin and Useful Idiots.

 

[Dragon]

Actually, it can be both, and it likely is by design.

Lenin and Useful Idiots.

If it's a chaotic and disorganized movement that is being brainwashed by Machiavellian liberal groups, that would not be self-contradictory. But nor would it be falsifiable. You can say that about any popular movement that happens to agree with opinions expressed by some prominent person in politics or the media. There is no reason to believe it.

 

[Si modo]

Actually, it can be both, and it likely is by design.

Lenin and Useful Idiots.

If it's a chaotic and disorganized movement that is being brainwashed by Machiavellian liberal groups, that would not be self-contradictory. But nor would it be falsifiable. You can say that about any popular movement that happens to agree with opinions expressed by some prominent person in politics or the media. There is no reason to believe it.

True, hard to prove a negative. But, I'm not in the lab here, so I'm not too concerned with falsifiability at this point. I cannot make any conclusions on moving targets except that they ARE moving targets. I cannot make any conclusion on amorphous claims either, except that they are amorphous.

I CAN wonder why they are what they are. I CAN also wonder why a political movement would keep its political points and cards so close to their chests, as well.

Or, the OWS could be crystal clear in what they want and how they want it.

But, they clearly have a reason not to be.

And, there are plenty of reasons to fill that purposeful vacuum with other information related to the OWS.

And, that takes many to Useful Idiots and Lenin.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Im eagerly awaiting dragons response to that.

You two make for good reading!

 

[The T]

In other words, you have nothing, and are talking out your ass. Just as I suspected.

You can 'suspect' all you want. Means jack shit to me. I am well known on this board for not spoon feeding others. You want to know something, you find out about it. And you do so by reading the shit you disagree with instead of mindlessly parroting crap that you accept as 'true'.

It's not rocket science, but you do have to dig. I will not pay for your shovel. You buy your own.

You already posted up the connections with links on the forum last week when we started discussing how this movement wasn't spontanious nor grassroots but pre-planned and supported by rich liberal interest groups.

But the dipwad still refuses to belive the truth.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I know but you know me, I don't give up easily on trying to help people out who are like that....but when I do give up its over

 

[jillian]

it's always funny watching people who thought people hanging tea bags from their hats were important denigrate other people's issues.

 

[Si modo]

it's always funny watching people who thought people hanging tea bags from their hats were important denigrate other people's issues.

Apparently folks poo-ing on cop cars says so much, though.

And, it does. Really.

 

[California Girl]

it's always funny watching people who thought people hanging tea bags from their hats were important denigrate other people's issues.

Apparently folks poo-ing on cop cars says so much, though.

And, it does. Really.

How about crapping on the flag? I liked that one best. Funny shit.

 

[Si modo]

it's always funny watching people who thought people hanging tea bags from their hats were important denigrate other people's issues.

Apparently folks poo-ing on cop cars says so much, though.

And, it does. Really.

How about crapping on the flag? I liked that one best. Funny shit.

Yup. That one was from 2008; apparently little has changed. Acting like a pig says so much.

 

[California Girl]

Apparently folks poo-ing on cop cars says so much, though.

And, it does. Really.

How about crapping on the flag? I liked that one best. Funny shit.

Yup. That one was from 2008; apparently little has changed. Acting like a pig says so much.

Seems to bear all the hallmarks of the 'anti-globalization' protests that follow the G summits around the world. They're funny. Ranting and raving about the rich... and pretty much all of them live on benefits provided by those 'rich'.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I feel badly for the people who lost jobs and have legitimately tried to find them because the hooligans in this occupation have totally disparaged their legitimate grievences. I also feel bad because the unions and rich liberal special interests came in and ruined any potential "grassrootsness" (new word) of these protests.

If only they focused the attention at those who created the environment that allowed these things to happen on wall street, the housing markets, and in the banking industry....IE the federal govt's policies in these areas over the last 20 or 30 years, maybe longer.

 

[Dragon]

Im eagerly awaiting dragons response to that.

You two make for good reading!

I responded already; perhaps you missed it.

Simply put, the claim that OWS is the creation of, or under the control of, any one person or organization can only be proven by showing that most of those who are involved in it either directly acknowledge the authority of said person or organization, or else acknowledge the authority of a third party who secretly acknowledges it.

The truth is, though, that the participants in OWS don't acknowledge anyone's authority. And that means there can be no chain connecting them to the control of either Jones or anyone else.

No statement made by Jones at any time is proof of this claim. If he called for a left-wing protest movement before OWS started, that proves nothing except that he wanted it to happen. He does not have magical powers, and the participants do not acknowledge either his authority or that of anyone else who could be following his orders -- because they acknowledge no one's authority.

No financial connections from Jones to any financial backer such as Soros is proof of this claim, either.

And that sort of thing is the only evidence that CG has ever presented. It's evidence of nothing that she's trying to claim here.