Liberty's Constitution 101: Ask your questions about "subjective" provisions here.

Liberty

Silver Member
Jul 8, 2009
4,058
550
98
colorado
If you think a part of the constitution is vague, post it here and I will explain to you what it means while backing it up with federalist papers and/or Madison papers. It is written in plain English and does not need interpretations, so I will help you understand if you have any queries. You are welcome.
 
Last edited:
If you think a part of the constitution is vague, post it here and I will explain to you what it means while backing it up with federalist papers and/or Madison papers. It is written in plain English and does not need interpretations, so I will help you understand if you have any queries. You are welcome.

Doesn't "Provide For The Common Good" in the Constitution mean that healthcare is a right and that subjects, er, citizens should be forced to pay for it?
 
If you think a part of the constitution is vague, post it here and I will explain to you what it means while backing it up with federalist papers and/or Madison papers. It is written in plain English and does not need interpretations, so I will help you understand if you have any queries. You are welcome.

Doesn't "Provide For The Common Good" in the Constitution mean that healthcare is a right and that subjects, er, citizens should be forced to pay for it?

Good day, sir. Are you referring to Article 1 Section 8?
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;" ?

If so, Madison explains in Federalist 41 in order to counter the Anti-Federalist position that this gives the congress the power to do anything. Madison explains this is incorrect as shown in the following statement:

Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction.

Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms "to raise money for the general welfare."

But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars. But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning, and can have no other effect than to confound and mislead, is an absurdity, which, as we are reduced to the dilemma of charging either on the authors of the objection or on the authors of the Constitution, we must take the liberty of supposing, had not its origin with the latter.

The objection here is the more extraordinary, as it appears that the language used by the convention is a copy from the articles of Confederation. The objects of the Union among the States, as described in article third, are "their common defense, security of their liberties, and mutual and general welfare." The terms of article eighth are still more identical: "All charges of war and all other expenses that shall be incurred for the common defense or general welfare, and allowed by the United States in Congress, shall be defrayed out of a common treasury," etc. A similar language again occurs in article ninth. Construe either of these articles by the rules which would justify the construction put on the new Constitution, and they vest in the existing Congress a power to legislate in all cases whatsoever. But what would have been thought of that assembly, if, attaching themselves to these general expressions, and disregarding the specifications which ascertain and limit their import, they had exercised an unlimited power of providing for the common defense and general welfare? I appeal to the objectors themselves, whether they would in that case have employed the same reasoning in justification of Congress as they now make use of against the convention. How difficult it is for error to escape its own condemnation!

As clearly shown, the introductory paragraph of Article 1 Section 8, has no meaning, it is simply an introduction and as Madison explains, to provide for the General Welfare means to adhere to the rules immediately laid out after the introduction, and to claim that the introduction gives congress any power it wants is ludicrous, as protecting the general welfare means to stick to the enumerated powers and not deviate.

So, to specifically answer your question: No. Nothing "health" related is presented in the enumerated powers, and thus the Congress has no prerogative to dictate such industry in any fashion.

With that said, this specific provision has now been explained.

Thank you for your question, are there any others?
 
Last edited:
I can tell by reading your original post that you know nothing about the Constitution. Carry on.
 
I can tell by reading your original post that you know nothing about the Constitution. Carry on.

I can tell you have no examples of where the Constitution is written in a vague or subjective matter. Since you cannot, I would like to say thank you and good luck to you.
 
Seeing as how one of us has actually been paid for writing about the Constitution and published on the subject (not you), I'll just have to laugh at that.
 
Seeing as how one of us has actually been paid for writing about the Constitution and published on the subject (not you), I'll just have to laugh at that.

So you agree with me that it is written in easy to understand English with no vague provisions. Thank you for your support.
 
Shitforbrains, take your crappy words out of my mouth. Thank you.

You're RETARDED if you think that a plain reading of the Constitution is all that's necessary to understand it. There are constitutional doctrines and case law that have grown up around the document that are counter-intuitive and nowhere near a lay understanding of the thing.

Thanks for proving me right that you don't understand this glorious work.
 
Shitforbrains, take your crappy words out of my mouth. Thank you.

You're RETARDED if you think that a plain reading of the Constitution is all that's necessary to understand it. There are constitutional doctrines and case law that have grown up around the document that are counter-intuitive and nowhere near a lay understanding of the thing.

Thanks for proving me right that you don't understand this glorious work.

Since you still cannot provide me with a snippet of the constitution to back up your assertion, I have no choice but to assume that you agree with me in that interpretation is not necessary, as plain English requires no interpretation. Thank you for your continuing support.
 
I have a question, under provision 8 concerning the powers given to the United States Congress "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure", when was the last time congress exercised that power?
 
I have a question, under provision 8 concerning the powers given to the United States Congress "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measure", when was the last time congress exercised that power?

Congress waived that authority when they passed the federal reserve act in the early 20th century. To reclaim that power, they would have to repeal the federal reserve act, which is entirely possible. It can be argued that since the provision is still in the Constitution, the act does not have to be repealed, however the federal reserve holds this power today by authority of the congress. Politicians such as Ron Paul are concerned that the federal reserve, being a private bank, has no interest in the economic well being of the country as exampled in inflationary tactics such as quantitative easing, which has damaged the economy. More information can be found online and many books have been written on the topic.
 
Last edited:

Forum List

Back
Top