Liberals, I guess we can thank Sarah Palin for one thing..

[Modbert]

Frazzle, do note that I will address your long post when I return home later on today.

I just want to point out now that I never said the RNC endorsed bombing an abortion clinic. I specifically even said (some of the people in the party itself) because I have never seen a Liberal bomb a abortion clinic. I could be wrong but if it tends to be right-wingers who are doing this, what does that tell you about their message partly?

I personally believe a couple of the things you said aren't what I said or twisted to suit you but I'll address that issue when I get back.

You can make another long message for me to respond to or you can wait til I get home if your patient. I have a life to get to (though that is not to say you don't so need to yell at me over that comment) so I shall return later.

Oh and Joe Lieberman a lifelong democrat doesn't even recognize his party any longer? I'm calling BS on that one. Joe seemed just fine until the fine people in the state of CT (the democrats who voted whether they wanted Joe to continue to represent them) had enough of Joe representing them and showed him the door with the use of a ballot box.

He wasn't too happy and has been on this "The democrats have changed, man" path since.

 

[mightypeon]

You must be a whacko, sorry. You have to go back how many centuries to "prove" that Christianity is "bad" for everyone? Does this mean that Islam must be defined by the extremists who insist that all non-Muslims are fair game for murder? Or just true for Christians in your mind? Oh, that's right -ANY religion that recognizes there is only one God. But hey, you noticed any global movement involving internationally based murderous Christian groups lately? Worried about getting your head cut off by Christians who think if you don't believe as they do, you should die? Maybe you missed out on that really, really significant and big time Reformation that every major branch of Christianity went through at the same time that rejects violence in the name of Christianity for all time -but I sure didn't.

How dare McCain point out the truth that we are all God's children -or that for MOST Americans, their differences are much less than what they share in common, right? So offensive you just had to spit out that water -too bad it didn't short circuit your keyboard though.

Sorry, but Hitler was viciously anti-Christian in spite of his upbringing -which explains why he banned Christian-based youth groups in public schools, ordered them to be replaced with the atheistic and nationalist Hitler Youth Groups and required attendance of all public school children -and why he removed and melted down every church bell in Germany for the scrap metal. The Holocaust was not carried out in the name of ANY religion even while specifically targeting those of just one religion -but for the personal egomaniacal goals of one individual. No different from the identical goals of Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Stalin, Kim Jung Il, Castro or Chavez. They only vary in degree of ability to carry out the worst of their ultimate goals. But religion not only played (plays) no real role in their self-aggrandizement and egomaniacal goals, very few such tyrants even tried to exploit the religious beliefs of OTHERS to further their own personal goals and clearly had no such religious beliefs themselves.

OMG -you mean a lot of Christians actually dare to oppose EMBRYONIC stem cell research? What a terrible world we live in when some people refuse to believe that killing the youngest of human life in order to prolong the life of older humans isn't right. Killing living embryos in order to extend the life of another human being is what is opposed -not stem cell research in general. Talk about major age discrimination, huh? In fact the most promising research doesn't involve killing living embryos at all. Embryonic stem cell research is actually the one line which has produced NO results to this date, has no foreseeable results for the future and is why proponents insist that research involving killing living human embryos requires government funds. The most promising research, the research that has already produced real results and is already being used for the benefit of real people -doesn't involve killing living embryos and has plenty of private investment. It is the far less promising research, the one line that has produced no usable results AT ALL, the one line of research that involves killing live human embryos that can't get private investment. All because of its dismal outlook and inability to produce any benefit at all -the ONLY line of stem cell research that seeks to get government funding. Gee a religious person might even conclude that God intended no benefit by killing living human embryos. But even for the non-religious, please explain for us all why if private investors won't touch it because of its dismal potential -then who are you to insist all taxpayers must risk their money for it? The private market has an uncanny ability to realize where the promising and most beneficial results will be -and they already got it right with this one. Ever check the facts before spouting off?

No national Republican and certainly not the RNC has EVER endorsed bombing an abortion clinic. I am a conservative Christian who opposes our extremely liberal abortion laws but would NEVER even hint at the idea that anyone who supports them, much less those who work in the industry or patronized those clinics - somehow deserve to die for it. Two wrongs can never EVER make a right, certainly never before God - and every Christian I know or have ever met firmly agrees with that. Abortion clinic bombers deserve whatever the law demands as the consequences for such acts and will never get any sympathy from me or any other Christian I've ever met.

So it must be your own personal bias that equates that kind of violence with the RNC, Republicans and religion that recognizes a single Supreme Being - even though the Republican party has always opposed and condemned that kind of act. Even while also opposing our abortion laws. It actually is not incompatible you know. Never met a single person of any religion or any party who supports bombing abortion clinics. Not one -even though I know lots of people from both parties who oppose at least some parts of our abortion laws. I guess in your mind you figure if a political party, or even an individual for his own personal or religious reasons, actually opposes the most liberal abortion laws in the world - that somehow equates endorsing and "sending out" people to bomb abortion clinics, violence, murder and mayhem in the name of some religion. You never opposed something in your life while also never supporting violence in that opposition or what? Get real already -everyone has opposed something in their life but would never support any act of violence in the name of opposition.

Maybe you didn't know this -but most of those people who have been arrested for some kind of violence against abortion clinics -have no voting record at all. Which means they sure as hell aren't Republicans any more than they are Democrats. But if you think otherwise, maybe you also agree conservatives would be on firm grounds if they claim Democrats are actually in support of Stalin's policy of assassinating or imprisoning any political opponents. After all, the far left has a really rotten record in the world when it comes to that, responsible for the murders of far more people than died in the Holocaust (which was actually born of socialism too). And the Democrat party has turned so far left that lifelong Democrats like Joe Lieberman don't even recognize their own party any longer. Even JFK would not be welcomed as a Democrat today and certainly would have nothing in common with the extremist leftwing positions of his drunken sod brother Ted Kennedy who has never seen a tax hike he didn't fall in love with it. Even while stashing his own money in offshore accounts to avoid US taxes. So do you buy that one too?

Actually I think I'm on firmer ground with that than you are when it comes to religion. Religion has given the world stunning art, music, inspiration and a deeper level of thinking beyond one's own selfish existence. What has far left liberalism given the world except insisting that making everyone equally miserable is somehow better for all mankind? Oh, yes -it gave us the idiocy of political correctness as the first step in squelching free speech, insists that a faceless bureacracy knows far better what is in your best interests than you can possibly know - and insists that a cross sitting upside down in a jar of urine and feces flung on a picture of the Madonna -is the real "art". I'll pass, thank you.

Hitler was not an Atheists, but thats a bit off topic for that.
My personal gripe is not with excleusive religions but with exclusive ideologies.
To me, every philosophical system that says:
only we are "true believers", "the race", "the international working class" while everyone else is a "Heathen!", "Heretic!", "Untermensch!" or "Fascist Imperialist Pig!" is a problem.

 

[Silence]

Who is this Truthorg person who keeps neg rep-ing me? I don't even see them in this thread!

 

[bigdaddygtr]

What are they saying? --I'm so afraid of Palin that I think you need more money to beat her ?

Wow that was absolutely the dumbest spin on something I've ever heard

 

[Caligirl]

Who is this Truthorg person who keeps neg rep-ing me? I don't even see them in this thread!

I'm wondering the same thing -- ! She or He is calling me a democrat - saying I need to be an american first! WTF? I've been trying to find some of this person's posts, no clue who it is but she or he obviuosly hasn't read you or me very extensively.

 

[editec]

If people don't post here with some frequency, I hardly think it fair to give them the right to vote rep points.

 

[mdjgirl7]

Oh the Dems want Obam alright he knows squat about running this country. They want you use him as a patsy so they can rape this country and line their pockets. Poor Obama will take the blame not them. Oh and by the way since the Dems got control why isn't the war over?

 

[editec]

Oh the Dems want Obam alright he knows squat about running this country. They want you use him as a patsy so they can rape this country and line their pockets. Poor Obama will take the blame not them. Oh and by the way since the Dems got control why isn't the war over?

Oh you want to play the I'm so sophomorically clever I can pose rhetorical questions game, do you?


Okay I can play like that.

How do you explain that when the Republicans controlled Congress, we were losing, but now that the the Dems control it, we're winning so well that it's time for us to think about getting out?

Obviosuly, using the harebrained logic you've used in your above quote to make a point, the answer is because the Dems know how to win wars, right?

 

[AllieBaba]

That's an interesting lib twist. You guys are great at making your own defeat look like someone else's.

 

[Article 15]

Reported on CNN and Fox on Thursday and no idea if any other news station commented on it since I didn't watch any of them. Heard about the $10 million for Obama on those same stations too. Hope you get your news from multiple sources and not just online since there are no "truth in reporting" laws that apply to any online source. And just don't see any online source that is "gloating" about the $10 million for Obama bothering to report what the other side collected after McCain announced his Palin pick and before her speech since online sites tend to be far more partisan and far more likely to focus only on what they want other people know while sitting on that they do not want to see spread. It was $85 million, sorry.

I researched it a bit and the $85 million you are referring to is likely the public funding that the McCain campaign accepted ...

 

[Missourian]

Who is this Truthorg person who keeps neg rep-ing me? I don't even see them in this thread!

I'm wondering the same thing -- ! She or He is calling me a democrat - saying I need to be an american first! WTF? I've been trying to find some of this person's posts, no clue who it is but she or he obviuosly hasn't read you or me very extensively.

I gave you both some rep to make up for it. I love reading your posts. Both of you are honest and believe you are supporting what is best for America, not just an ideology. That's as good as it gets.

 

[Modbert]

Because this is post so long, I will respond below each paragraph in bold. Like this.

You must be a whacko, sorry. You have to go back how many centuries to "prove" that Christianity is "bad" for everyone? Does this mean that Islam must be defined by the extremists who insist that all non-Muslims are fair game for murder? Or just true for Christians in your mind? Oh, that's right -ANY religion that recognizes there is only one God. But hey, you noticed any global movement involving internationally based murderous Christian groups lately? Worried about getting your head cut off by Christians who think if you don't believe as they do, you should die? Maybe you missed out on that really, really significant and big time Reformation that every major branch of Christianity went through at the same time that rejects violence in the name of Christianity for all time -but I sure didn't.

Whacko? No, I think you have me confused with John McCain. I don't have to go that many centuries back to prove how bad Christianity is "bad" or any religion that follows a god/gods in general. Any religion that follows a god or gods in general is what I was talking about. If you got confused, then I don't know what to tell you.

I was born and raised Catholic. I also made my confirmation, so I'm not biased towards the Catholic church because I was once a part of it.

I love how you change the subject to Islam for whatever odd reason and only continue to prove my point that all religions that follow any sort of god is bad. I'm not saying one religion that follows god is bad, I'm saying they all equally are.

How dare McCain point out the truth that we are all God's children -or that for MOST Americans, their differences are much less than what they share in common, right? So offensive you just had to spit out that water -too bad it didn't short circuit your keyboard though.

Again, you assume we're all God's children but then backpedal when you realize that not everyone believes in said God.

You could only hope my keyboard would get short circuited. I never said God was bad, just the groups of people who follow him have over time caused more violence, destruction, and murder then any other cause or reason.

That's not a "opinion" like you believe in God, that's fact.

Sorry, but Hitler was viciously anti-Christian in spite of his upbringing -which explains why he banned Christian-based youth groups in public schools, ordered them to be replaced with the atheistic and nationalist Hitler Youth Groups and required attendance of all public school children -and why he removed and melted down every church bell in Germany for the scrap metal. The Holocaust was not carried out in the name of ANY religion even while specifically targeting those of just one religion -but for the personal egomaniacal goals of one individual. No different from the identical goals of Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Stalin, Kim Jung Il, Castro or Chavez. They only vary in degree of ability to carry out the worst of their ultimate goals. But religion not only played (plays) no real role in their self-aggrandizement and egomaniacal goals, very few such tyrants even tried to exploit the religious beliefs of OTHERS to further their own personal goals and clearly had no such religious beliefs themselves.

Hitler made the Youth groups so he would have more power, he basically acted like he was a God.

Melting down every church bell in Germany for scrap metal could of been for more of a reason then he supposedly hated Christanity.

If you refuse to believe me, then look at this link under this paragraph and the many other links within it. Then come back and tell me how Hitler wasn't a Christian or at the very least heavily influenced by the religion.

Hitler's Christianity

OMG -you mean a lot of Christians actually dare to oppose EMBRYONIC stem cell research? What a terrible world we live in when some people refuse to believe that killing the youngest of human life in order to prolong the life of older humans isn't right. Killing living embryos in order to extend the life of another human being is what is opposed -not stem cell research in general. Talk about major age discrimination, huh? In fact the most promising research doesn't involve killing living embryos at all. Embryonic stem cell research is actually the one line which has produced NO results to this date, has no foreseeable results for the future and is why proponents insist that research involving killing living human embryos requires government funds. The most promising research, the research that has already produced real results and is already being used for the benefit of real people -doesn't involve killing living embryos and has plenty of private investment. It is the far less promising research, the one line that has produced no usable results AT ALL, the one line of research that involves killing live human embryos that can't get private investment. All because of its dismal outlook and inability to produce any benefit at all -the ONLY line of stem cell research that seeks to get government funding. Gee a religious person might even conclude that God intended no benefit by killing living human embryos. But even for the non-religious, please explain for us all why if private investors won't touch it because of its dismal potential -then who are you to insist all taxpayers must risk their money for it? The private market has an uncanny ability to realize where the promising and most beneficial results will be -and they already got it right with this one. Ever check the facts before spouting off?

I'm not sprouting off. I have double checked some sources and I have come to the conclusion that they oppose Embryonic stem cell research as you said. I was more talking about Stem Cell Research in general though and how some people who belong to a religion still oppose it 100% completely.

I did notice however you ignored my points about Creationism and Gay Marriage, why is that?

I find debating with you to be interesting and I would love to see you try and oppose the points I made about those two topics when it comes to religion unless you know I'm right.

No national Republican and certainly not the RNC has EVER endorsed bombing an abortion clinic. I am a conservative Christian who opposes our extremely liberal abortion laws but would NEVER even hint at the idea that anyone who supports them, much less those who work in the industry or patronized those clinics - somehow deserve to die for it. Two wrongs can never EVER make a right, certainly never before God - and every Christian I know or have ever met firmly agrees with that. Abortion clinic bombers deserve whatever the law demands as the consequences for such acts and will never get any sympathy from me or any other Christian I've ever met.

As I said in a earlier post, I specifically stated that nobody in the RNC has ever endorsed bombing an abortion clinic. I'm so glad however that you know where the line is drawn became protesting something and violence against it. (I'm serious about that, good for you.)

So it must be your own personal bias that equates that kind of violence with the RNC, Republicans and religion that recognizes a single Supreme Being - even though the Republican party has always opposed and condemned that kind of act. Even while also opposing our abortion laws. It actually is not incompatible you know. Never met a single person of any religion or any party who supports bombing abortion clinics. Not one -even though I know lots of people from both parties who oppose at least some parts of our abortion laws. I guess in your mind you figure if a political party, or even an individual for his own personal or religious reasons, actually opposes the most liberal abortion laws in the world - that somehow equates endorsing and "sending out" people to bomb abortion clinics, violence, murder and mayhem in the name of some religion. You never opposed something in your life while also never supporting violence in that opposition or what? Get real already -everyone has opposed something in their life but would never support any act of violence in the name of opposition.

I'm just stating that the combo of the RNC and Religion opposing it leads to some people bombing abortion clinics in the name of God, or whatever kind of God they believe in.

Everyone has opposed something in their life but would never support any act of violence in the name of opposition? You need to see this then, there are some bat-shit insane people out there.

Interesting thing about World Peace in this clip, my point begins at 7:36.

YouTube - P&T Bullshit World Peace Part 2

Maybe you didn't know this -but most of those people who have been arrested for some kind of violence against abortion clinics -have no voting record at all. Which means they sure as hell aren't Republicans any more than they are Democrats. But if you think otherwise, maybe you also agree conservatives would be on firm grounds if they claim Democrats are actually in support of Stalin's policy of assassinating or imprisoning any political opponents. After all, the far left has a really rotten record in the world when it comes to that, responsible for the murders of far more people than died in the Holocaust (which was actually born of socialism too). And the Democrat party has turned so far left that lifelong Democrats like Joe Lieberman don't even recognize their own party any longer. Even JFK would not be welcomed as a Democrat today and certainly would have nothing in common with the extremist leftwing positions of his drunken sod brother Ted Kennedy who has never seen a tax hike he didn't fall in love with it. Even while stashing his own money in offshore accounts to avoid US taxes. So do you buy that one too?

Not everybody who bombs abortion clinics doesn't have voting records, unless you can prove otherwise? I made my point about Joe Lieberman earlier, if you think he's a Democrat still because of how the party has "changed" then I got a bridge in Alaska to sell you. The Democrats of CT didn't want Joe to represent them anymore and proved so at the ballot box. He held a grudge then and now.

Your turning this into a Right Wing/Left Wing argument as we go along. My point is about Religion and it continues to stand. Though it isn't very christian of you to call Ted Kennedy a drunken sod is it?

Actually I think I'm on firmer ground with that than you are when it comes to religion. Religion has given the world stunning art, music, inspiration and a deeper level of thinking beyond one's own selfish existence. What has far left liberalism given the world except insisting that making everyone equally miserable is somehow better for all mankind? Oh, yes -it gave us the idiocy of political correctness as the first step in squelching free speech, insists that a faceless bureacracy knows far better what is in your best interests than you can possibly know - and insists that a cross sitting upside down in a jar of urine and feces flung on a picture of the Madonna -is the real "art". I'll pass, thank you.

So glad you assume such things.

"The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music." - George Carlin

You've turned this into a right wing/left wing argument, that's all I can say. People who are Democrats believe in religion too, they for the most part don't want Church in their Gov't so much like the Republicans do.

One last point, ever hear of a little thing called the Renaissance? That happened because people finally stopped focusing all their energy on God and the church, and started to focus it on themselves.

And those are my two cents. Feel free to respond.

 

[necritan]

In my opinion.....anyone...can turn anything into a god....money...sex...work...etc.

Most things in moderation are generally harmless....

Religion....in and of its self is harmless....as far as Christianity...or Catholicism for that matter...they lend far more good then bad now then they had in past history. Reaching out in impoverished countries and neighborhoods....offering hope to the hopeless....shelter for homeless...food for the hungery....the list goes on.

There are two sides to every coin.

A fanatically religious leader is a bit scary indeed....I agree there.

I do not believe that either the RED or BLUE are solely persuaded by religious beliefs.

As public servants.....our leaders should worship the idea of doing what is best for the "People" and protecting the constitution.

 

[dilloduck]

Because this is post so long, I will respond below each paragraph in bold. Like this.



So glad you assume such things.

"The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music." - George Carlin

You've turned this into a right wing/left wing argument, that's all I can say. People who are Democrats believe in religion too, they for the most part don't want Church in their Gov't so much like the Republicans do.

One last point, ever hear of a little thing called the Renaissance? That happened because people finally stopped focusing all their energy on God and the church, and started to focus it on themselves.

And those are my two cents. Feel free to respond.

Intersting theory on why the renaissance occurred.

 

[Modbert]

In my opinion.....anyone...can turn anything into a god....money...sex...work...etc.

Most things in moderation are generally harmless....

Religion....in and of its self is harmless....as far as Christianity...or Catholicism for that matter...they lend far more good then bad now then they had in past history. Reaching out in impoverished countries and neighborhoods....offering hope to the hopeless....shelter for homeless...food for the hungery....the list goes on.

There are two sides to every coin.

A fanatically religious leader is a bit scary indeed....I agree there.

I do not believe that either the RED or BLUE are solely persuaded by religious beliefs.

As public servants.....our leaders should worship the idea of doing what is best for the "People" and protecting the constitution.

I agree with the beginning (The Ultimate Dollar anyone?) and the end there.

I don't think that in America though can do things in moderation, least not anymore. We are the Nation of Super Size, Jumbo large, get it all now while we still can.

I can agree that some people in religion in history have done good and have good intentions. However, it's the people in charge much of the time and the people who use Religion as a reason to say and do whatever that I dislike. (One of the many things I dislike about religion that follow a God or Gods.)

I respect your points necritan and glad we can have this discussion in a civil manner.

 

[Modbert]

Intersting theory on why the renaissance occurred.

It was partly why at the very least. I know much if not most of the art commissioned at the time was by the Church.

If people focus on giving all their time, energy, and resources to the church. How will they be able to improve their own lives? (Though I am by far not insulting charity work or people like Mother Teresa who is one of the greatest woman to ever live on this Earth.) I'm just stating that as a society, how can we improve and advance if all our focus is on giving to a certain thing not related to advancement and staying in the past?

That make sense to you?

 

[Jennifer.Bush]

what Are They Saying? --i'm So Afraid Of Palin That I Think You Need More Money To Beat Her ?

Bingoooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[dilloduck]

It was partly why at the very least. I know much if not most of the art commissioned at the time was by the Church.

If people focus on giving all their time, energy, and resources to the church. How will they be able to improve their own lives? (Though I am by far not insulting charity work or people like Mother Teresa who is one of the greatest woman to ever live on this Earth.) I'm just stating that as a society, how can we improve and advance if all our focus is on giving to a certain thing not related to advancement and staying in the past?

That make sense to you?

no---I think most people were trying to find enough food and trying to avoid the government/church.

 

[Modbert]

Bingoooooooooooooooooooooooo

*Picks up your card and looks at it for a moment.*

Sorry, no bingo.

Perhaps people are just sick of the GOP and their tactics? That right there is what I saw in plenty of the responses in which people said they donated to Barack Obama.

If people are afraid of Sarah Palin, it's because of her extreme right-wing bat-shit insane crazy views.

 

[Modbert]

no---I think most people were trying to find enough food and trying to avoid the government/church.

With things like The Spanish Inquisition going on, can't exactly blame them for wanting to avoid the government/church. (Government/Church being the same thing back then for those who don't know.)