Let us argue about abortion

[NYcarbineer]

A human goes through a process before they can be called a person, just like a seed must go through a process in order to become a tree.

What, precisely, is that process, and where in it does one become human?

She didn't say becomes a human. She said becomes a person.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Shit for brains, work on your posting skills.

Abortion is way above your head when you can't master quotes and font size, shitbag.

The scumbags are still trying to prove they aren't scumbags.

What did Einstein say about insanity....[/QUOTE]

Einstein says that if you are insane.....that you have "GoneBezerk".

Hope that helps.

Did your moms doctor drop you on your head when you were born. Just curious.

The correct place to put your replies to quotes is below them, not above them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There is no point arguing about abortion. We all have the same arguments, and we will never agree. The pro life crowd will insult the pro choice crowd, and the pro choice crowd will insult right back.
This is one issue that no one will ever agree on, because no one is able to discuss the issue without getting into a slanging match.

I object to being accused of not being able to have a civil, fact based debate over abortion. I do it all the time.

 

[GoneBezerk]

When you liberals are in hell, you can debate Satan over the zygote, fetus, embryo, etc.....

 

[SmarterThanHick]

My belief is that life begins at conception, giving you 20 weeks off of that just makes me look stupider than you. Put whatever numbers you feel necessary to obsess over into the question and explain what, medical or scientifically, is different about a baby just because the mother wants it? Is there some sort of chemical her body releases that changes that child into a real human?

And that's the difference between science and hick. Your belief doesn't mean crap. Your believe is centered on magical thinking because it makes you feel good. It has no biologic basis whatsoever. Eggs have human genetic non-viable material. Zygotes have human genetic non-viable material.

As to the question I now understand was your original that I missed: what biologically changes just because a woman wants it? Nothing. No one has made that claim except you.
But it's still the woman's right to choose what to do with her body and the non-viable tissue inside her. Not you.

You have provided absolutely no evidence to back up your assertion that a baby is not human, all you can do is post pictures of acorns and ask me if they are fungi. Until you provide me with evidence, beyond your simple assertion, that the definition of human needs something more than I give it, perhaps a soul that is added after said human starts to breathe, you are not doing anything to convince anyone that passed 5th grade biology.

You do remember learning that tadpoles are frogs, don't you?

Except babies are humans. You can't even get basic terminology down right. You think a clump of cells is a baby. Moronic. You think the developmental process is magical. Moronic. Now you're talking about souls in a conversation of biology and physiologic changes? MORONIC. What part of 5th grade biology references souls? I must have missed that chapter. Can you clarify your magical thinking?

Do YOU remember learning about tadpoles and frogs? Babies are young humans. Tadpoles are young frogs. What's this?

Is that a frog? Is it a tree? Is it a baby? You're really not good at this game.

I have never once used the phrase potential human being to describe a fetus, stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Apologies, you use words like magical, and soul, and "pre-programmed" which is essentially the same thing as potential. Not yet programmed.



I asked that of a woman I have argued with before because I hoped it would make my point with her. You jumped in because you are dumber than dog shit, one of the joys of posting on the internet.

Are you trying to tell me that intestinal flora is not necessary to human life? That every doctor on the planet is wrong, and that you are the only person on the entire Earth that understands the WAY THINGS WORK?

Why don't I believe that?

Because you're a moron, as demonstrated countless times in this thread. Babies don't start with bacteria in their guts, and they're ok. We can kill all the bacteria in our gut with antibiotics, and we're just fine. They help. They're not required. If you disagree, support your claim. Provide evidence that shows people will die without gut bacteria. You should have stopped when you acknowledged your shortcomings.

What, specifically, is the difference between what you says is a viable, yet non human, fetus, and a human. You expecting me to believe that expelling fluid form the lungs makes us human, is almost as absurd as rdean spouting his 6% statistic every time I challenge him on something. On top of that, it would mean that people using liquid ventilation are no longer human, something I do not believe.

Wow you can't follow this conversation at all, can you? No one said that expelling lung fluid makes us human. You asked what changes make a fetus a baby, and I listed that as one of the many physiologic changes. You continue to show you have no capacity to keep your vocabulary straight. Baby, fetus, human, and viable all mean the same thing in your limited hick mind. And then you go on to expound your stupidity with a claim about "liquid ventilation," which by the way is not a thing outside of sci-fi movies. Here's the bottom line: viability in and of itself is its own marker. The way we hit that marker is by developing organs until viability is reached. It's a process. One you don't seem to understand because the idea of a continuum of events blows your mind.

So in summary:
you have no grasp of the basic vocabulary related to this issue
therefore you have no understanding of the processes
because you lack understanding, you find magical other reasons for your blind beliefs
you use words like magic and soul
you don't understand the continuum of fetal development but try to draw conclusions anyway
you liken fetuses to electronics
you think humans are parasites

Given all these moronic beliefs you've spouted in this thread alone, perhaps you should take this opportunity to bow out, realizing you have a laughable small understanding of the topic, whereby your imagination fills in the ample wholes in understanding.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Don't waste your time with the hick, it is insane and believes it is Dr Francis Collins.

 

[thanatos144]

MSNBC Host: ?I Thank God and Country?Abortion Was There to Save Me? | Video | TheBlaze.com

As always leave it to sick fucking progressives to praise dead babies.

 

[Katzndogz]

Is this a baby? It's eight weeks into gestation.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKKnCtNeRU]Baby Steps: 4D Ultrasound - YouTube[/ame]

 

[thanatos144]

Facts are the progressives want abortion cause they think it cuts down on the undesirables.......They honestly think there are people who just dont deserve life.... If you support abortion you are evil people.... End of story.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

My belief is that life begins at conception, giving you 20 weeks off of that just makes me look stupider than you. Put whatever numbers you feel necessary to obsess over into the question and explain what, medical or scientifically, is different about a baby just because the mother wants it? Is there some sort of chemical her body releases that changes that child into a real human?

And that's the difference between science and hick. Your belief doesn't mean crap. Your believe is centered on magical thinking because it makes you feel good. It has no biologic basis whatsoever. Eggs have human genetic non-viable material. Zygotes have human genetic non-viable material.

As to the question I now understand was your original that I missed: what biologically changes just because a woman wants it? Nothing. No one has made that claim except you. ...

...

and this is her debating tactic.

Did she mention Galileo yet?

 

[Wiseacre]

Knock off the crap, or this thread goes bye bye.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Arguing about abortion will always invite trouble. There is a huge difference between arguing about a sensitive and emotional topic and discussing it

distinctions with a difference

 

[thanatos144]

there is no argument... There is those speaking the truth about abortion that it is about killing babies and the those wishing to hide this truth by lying about it.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Its legal. Go on ahead and thin your own.

If you lack accountability at step one.

Motherhood wont be any different.

 

[PredFan]

Why is it that the ones who say they are anti-abortion are also pro-war and pro-death penalty.

Because, oh profoundly ignorant one, people who die in war aren't innocent, and the people who are executed are profoundly guilty.

Why are anti-abortion folks so against drones that kill so few but are in favor of the incredibly, mind numbing HUGE death rates from the Bush wars?

WTF? Are you just making stuff up now?

And as we've all seen, the anti-abortion folks seem to despise children who are already here.

are those children getting murdered? No. You're quite the fool aren't you?

Until they care equally for all life, I don't see any reason to listen to their rants.

No one gives a shit about your ultimatum dumbass. Here's a clue, you are posting here so you ovbviously listen, nit wit.

 

[PredFan]

a plant has life. a fetus is not a fully developed human being. it's not fully human. and that is a fact no one likes mentioning in an emotional argument.

we all like to thing of a fetus as a child...well the day a fetus has the same protected rights as living people in America, Big Brother will become the oppressor of women

Wrong. That's not a fact. It is FULLY human, at a particular stage of development, as you JUST SAID. Certain developmental stages aren't more or less human. Just as a child is fully human, a parapalegic is fully human, and your grandparents were fully human.

An embryonic horse is fully a horse...at the embryonic stage. I find it interesting that the only animal that is attributed different percentages of being is human. And that's because, in fact, we AREN'T something different when we are at different stages. We're still what we are. So kindly stop spreading that particular lie, it makes you look more ridiculous than usual.

actually, dummy, we are not always human in the womb. there are plenty of times in the gestational period of many animals in the early stages where a chromosome flipped one way or the other could make the difference in what it ends up being. i know that in your world science is a liberal conspiracy, but to those of us not living inside jesus' ballsack, we know the truth.

i'm sure this is wayyyyyy above your pay grade, but in case any of it happens to seep through your tin foil hat into your fundie brain.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QVXdEOiCw8]Jack Horner: Building a dinosaur from a chicken - YouTube[/ame]

A majority of scientists disagree with you.

If it has human DNA, it's a human.

 

[PredFan]

Give me any example in case law where someone's right to exercise their free will was denied them solely on the grounds that they could not prove it was an exercise of free will.

Apparently the above wackiness from the Windbag is not supported by any credible evidence.

You, obviously, don't know what credible means.

He's a lib. "Credible" means "Agrees with him."

 

[PredFan]

What, other than raw material, is needed for a human zygote to grow into a human being? By the way, it is actually possible for a trained individual to distinguish between the zygote of a dog and that of a monkey, yhe fact that I, personally, can not do so is irrelevant. Additionally, this thread is about induced abortions, not natural processes. Stop pretending they are equivalent.

Nothing more is needed. Just the zygote, nutrients, and right environment. And yet you still avoided the question as to whether you think a nut is a tree. Here let's try again, hoping you won't avoid even more things that demolish your claim:

Is this a tree? I'll give you a hint at the answers. It's either yes, or no.

As for the zygotes, you'd need to run their DNA to be able to differentiate the two. Neither you nor any fictitious "trained individual" you just made up can do so otherwise, as they appear exactly the same.

Additionally, this thread is about abortions and the loss of a fetus. Making an arbitrary line in the sand to claim things that work against your stance "don't count" is about as mature as shoving your fingers in your ears. One in four embryos are lost naturally. Do you find that to be the death of a human being?

Nice try dumbass. really, but that doesn't require a whole lot of thinking to debunk.

No, it isn't a tree, in just the same way that a fetus isn't an adult.

That acorn is an oak, and a human fetus is a human. An elm won't grow from that acorn and a donkey won't grow from a human fetus.

Nice try but a fail none the less.

 

[PredFan]

What, other than raw material, is needed for a human zygote to grow into a human being? By the way, it is actually possible for a trained individual to distinguish between the zygote of a dog and that of a monkey, yhe fact that I, personally, can not do so is irrelevant. Additionally, this thread is about induced abortions, not natural processes. Stop pretending they are equivalent.

Nothing more is needed. Just the zygote, nutrients, and right environment. And yet you still avoided the question as to whether you think a nut is a tree. Here let's try again, hoping you won't avoid even more things that demolish your claim:

Is this a tree? I'll give you a hint at the answers. It's either yes, or no.

As for the zygotes, you'd need to run their DNA to be able to differentiate the two. Neither you nor any fictitious "trained individual" you just made up can do so otherwise, as they appear exactly the same.

Additionally, this thread is about abortions and the loss of a fetus. Making an arbitrary line in the sand to claim things that work against your stance "don't count" is about as mature as shoving your fingers in your ears. One in four embryos are lost naturally. Do you find that to be the death of a human being?

i could full-mouth kiss you for that! brilliantly stated sir/maddam/you!

Yeah you should try thinking instead.

 

[PredFan]

There is no point arguing about abortion. We all have the same arguments, and we will never agree. The pro life crowd will insult the pro choice crowd, and the pro choice crowd will insult right back.
This is one issue that no one will ever agree on, because no one is able to discuss the issue without getting into a slanging match.

You are probably right 90% of the time on this. However, I used to be totally pro-choice but many people have made excellent points on the pro-life side. So now while I'm still pro-choice, I realize that there's no logical argument for unrestricted abortions.

This is a free country imo, and while RvW is law of the land, people should be free to do as they chose, imo.