Let the spin begin

[forkup]

"So do you agree that as a matter of policy it would be a good idea to tackle immigration by dramatically expanding the resources of the immigration courts?"

It should be one aspect of combating illegal immigration. It should not be the only thing was rely on.

Now, please answer my question:

What would be a valid reason for someone from, say, Ecuador or Venezuela to request asylum in the United States?

Why is it hard for you to understand that requesting asylum and illegal immigration are 2 different things? It is a pretty important distinction.

One can ask for asylum for being persecuted based on race, political opinion, or membership to a certain social group, religion, or nationality. So these are the valid reasons for ANYONE from whatever nation to ask for asylum. This then has to be adjudicated by the courts. I suspect however that you are asking in what circumstances those reasons could be judged valid for these particular nations. The reason I state it like this is that you are asking something very specific but your language isn't. I think semantics are important because it allows for an easy way out if you debate if someone chooses to be obtuse. Just a general tip.

So I'll reply to what I think you are asking.

Equador. World Report 2013: Rights Trends in World Report 2013: Ecuador
In February 2012, President Correa won a US$2 million judgment against the co-authors of a book, The Big Brother, which dealt with questionable contracts between the president’s brother and state institutions. Correa subsequently desisted from the demand, and also pardoned Emilio Palacio, former head of the opinion section of the newspaper El Universo and three of its directors, who had been sentenced to three years each in prison in 2011 and ordered, together with the newspaper, to pay him damages totaling $40 million. In August, Palacio was granted asylum in the United States.
This would constitute persecution for a political opinion.

Venezuela. World Report 2017: Rights Trends in Venezuela
Under the leadership of President Hugo Chávez and now President Nicolás Maduro, the accumulation of power in the executive branch and erosion of human rights guarantees have enabled the government to intimidate, persecute, and even criminally prosecute its critics. Severe shortages of medicines, medical supplies, and food have intensified since 2014, and weak government responses have undermined Venezuelans’ rights to health and food. Protesters have been arbitrarily detained and subject to abuse by security forces.
Police and military raids in low-income and immigrant communities have led to widespread allegations of abuse.
Other persistent concerns include poor prison conditions, impunity for human rights violations, and continuous harassment by government officials of human rights defenders and independent media outlets.
This would constitute persecution for a political opinion, membership to a certain social group, and nationality.

 

[Canon Shooter]

This would constitute persecution for a political opinion, membership to a certain social group, and nationality.

So, can we agree that someone fleeing persecution, for whatever reason, would be a valid reason to seek asylum?

 

[forkup]

So, can we agree that someone fleeing persecution, for whatever reason, would be a valid reason to seek asylum?

Not really. A bank robber will be persecuted in any nation. It would however not constitute a valid reason for seeking asylum. I gave you the actual valid motivations for requesting asylum.

 

[Muhammed]

I suppose we might if you actually had any. For instance, the video you have as your "signature" is an outright lie. A comment taken out of context.

How did you come to that stupid conclusion, moron?

 

[22lcidw]

The mid term results say otherwise.

2nd and 3rd world nations have made many promises. Their citizens are coming here in droves. With the same mindset. Spoiled Americans taught to hate what gave them an easier life at home have made us a nation enroute to the decline of others in human history.

 

[Dragonlady]

They're doing nothing to keep them out.

It's pretty simple math. I'm surprised it vexes you so...

What a stupid comment to make, and a false one at that.

Chasing migrants through the desert and locking them in concentration camps when captured did nothing to deter refugees from coming, and cutting funding for anti-gang programs in their home countries drove more refugees to your border as well.

Last but not least, forcing refugees to camp in Mexico waiting for a hearing created the current crisis that seems to continue to escalate because Trump also dismantled the entire immigration system while in office.

 

[Dragonlady]

How did you come to that stupid conclusion, moron?

He watched it you stupid dork. You have to be the most consistently gullible poster on this board.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Not really. A bank robber will be persecuted in any nation. It would however not constitute a valid reason for seeking asylum.

Um, no. He would be prosecuted in any nation. Prsoectution and persecution are very different things.

Persecution is defined as hostility and ill-treatment, especially on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation or political beliefs.

I gave you the actual valid motivations for requesting asylum.

So, if someone from Venezuela is fleeing Venezuela to avoid persecution for his political beliefs, that would be a valid reason to seek asylum, correct?

 

[Muhammed]

He watched it you stupid dork. You have to be the most consistently gullible poster on this board.

What in in video indicates to you that it is somehow out of context?

It's not some 2 second clip. It's in context.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I don't think Norman has anything to be concerned about. Advocating for an authoritarian/military remedy to losing an election is accepted practice in Repub circles these days.

Correct.

This is yet another example of the right’s continuing war on democracy.

 

[forkup]

Um, no. He would be prosecuted in any nation. Prsoectution and persecution are very different things.

Persecution is defined as hostility and ill-treatment, especially on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation or political beliefs.



So, if someone from Venezuela is fleeing Venezuela to avoid persecution for his political beliefs, that would be a valid reason to seek asylum, correct?

Persecution is defined as hostility and ill-treatment, especially on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation or political beliefs.

If that's the definition you choose, fine. Meriam Webster is less specific
2
: the condition of being persecuted, harassed, or annoyed

but since it doesn't change anything, it being the legal definition, and in the interest of not getting bogged down, I'll simply accept this as the definition.

So, if someone from Venezuela is fleeing Venezuela to avoid persecution for his political beliefs, that would be a valid reason to seek asylum, correct?

Yes, it would be. What is your point?

 

[gipper]

The mid term results say otherwise.

Hey I thought Kamala was in charge of the border. Didn’t she clean thing up?

 

[berg80]

Not really. A bank robber will be persecuted in any nation. It would however not constitute a valid reason for seeking asylum. I gave you the actual valid motivations for requesting asylum.

The distinction being between persecution and prosecution.

 

[berg80]

Correct.

This is yet another example of the right’s continuing war on democracy.

Agreed. Just like the normalization of seditious acts as evidenced by MTG's remarks at the gathering of young Nazis in NY not being universally condemned by Repub leadership.

 

[Canon Shooter]

If that's the definition you choose, fine. Meriam Webster is less specific
2
: the condition of being persecuted, harassed, or annoyed

but since it doesn't change anything, it being the legal definition, and in the interest of not getting bogged down, I'll simply accept this as the definition.

Persecution is more based on what someone thinks, says or believes.

Prosecution is based on criminal activity. You know, like "bank robbery"...

Yes, it would be. What is your point?

Well,s see, here's the thing: If someone is fleeing persecution in Venezuela, they'd have passed through seven countries before they get to the southern border of the United States. Seems to me as though they'd have successfully fled persecution in Venezuela long before they get to our border...

 

[lennypartiv]

Chasing migrants through the desert and locking them in concentration camps when captured did nothing to deter refugees from coming, and cutting funding for anti-gang programs in their home countries drove more refugees to your border as well.

Guard towers on the border with military sharpshooters at the top would work.

 

[Muhammed]

Agreed. Just like the normalization of seditious acts as evidenced by MTG's remarks at the gathering of young Nazis in NY not being universally condemned by Repub leadership.

You're a loony lying leftist.

Note how you cannot directly quote MTG making any remarks.

You drank the grape kool-aid just like those hardcore leftist brainwashed idiots a Jonestown.

 

[forkup]

Persecution is more based on what someone thinks, says or believes.

Prosecution is based on criminal activity. You know, like "bank robbery"...



Well,s see, here's the thing: If someone is fleeing persecution in Venezuela, they'd have passed through seven countries before they get to the southern border of the United States. Seems to me as though they'd have successfully fled persecution in Venezuela long before they get to our border...

First, they pass 7 countries that all have their own human rights problems.
Second, even if that wasn't true, it doesn't change the fact that they have the right to ask for asylum in any country they choose. In fact, chances are you have ancestors that literally crossed an ocean for a chance to be able to come to the United States. Although there were undoubtedly countries they could have relocated to that were closer.

I also still don't see how it is relevant in this context?

 

[Canon Shooter]

First, they pass 7 countries that all have their own human rights problems.
Second, even if that wasn't true, it doesn't change the fact that they have the right to ask for asylum in any country they choose. In fact, chances are you have ancestors that literally crossed an ocean for a chance to be able to come to the United States. Although there were undoubtedly countries they could have relocated to that were closer.

I also still don't see how it is relevant in this context?

I believe it's very relevant, simply due to the fact that if they're fleeing Venezuela, they've already done that long before the get to our border. It's silly to think that they can only have finally fled the persecution they faced in Venezuela by reaching our border.

I believe a major consideration in whether or not someone is granted asylum should be their country of origin. Someone traveling through seven countries to get here shouldn't qualify...

 

[forkup]

I believe it's very relevant, simply due to the fact that if they're fleeing Venezuela, they've already done that long before the get to our border. It's silly to think that they can only have finally fled the persecution they faced in Venezuela by reaching our border.

I believe a major consideration in whether or not someone is granted asylum should be their country of origin. Someone traveling through seven countries to get here shouldn't qualify...

The only thing you have to do then is convince all participant nations to agree to change the relevant provisions in the Geneva Convention, and/or convince the US to change their law and step out of the Geneva Convention.