Labor is Prior to and Independent of Capital

[Oddball]

How does labor get hired if there's no capital?

S&H stamps.

 

[Oddball]

Labor will always be technology and capital's lil' bitch now. Automation has captured and displaced much of labor's utility to productivity.

You can long for the good ol' days all you want, but they are gone for good.

Capital is king. It takes a hell of a lot less labor now to produce the goods and services we need.

Same thing happened to agriculture...But, strangely, you don't hear the liberoidals pissing and moaning that there aren't enough farming jobs anymore.

Prolly too much work for the frail little metrosexuals.

 

[uscitizen]

How does labor get hired if there's no capital?

Labor is what first produced the capital.

 

[SniperFire]

How does labor get hired if there's no capital?

Labor is what first produced the capital.

LOL

I would argue the punch press produces much, much more capital return than the monkey carving the parts by hand. But we do need one monkey to run the punch press, usually.

And that can be outsourced.


Give up.

 

[uscitizen]

Lets talk about when humans first started growing crops and quit beinf hunter gatherers for the most part.
Did they have investors buying the laborors tractors and such or was it all done thru human labor?
It all started with labor.

 

[SniperFire]

Lets talk about when humans first started growing crops and quit beinf hunter gatherers for the most part.

You Leftists are trying to pretend the relative utility of labor to capital has not changed since the hunter gatherer days.

Technology changed those dynamics forever.

What part of that are you have such difficulty grasping?

 

[uscitizen]

Lets talk about when humans first started growing crops and quit beinf hunter gatherers for the most part.

You Leftists are trying to pretend the relative utility of labor to capital has not changed since the hunter gatherer days.

Technology changed those dynamics forever.

What part of that are you have such difficulty grasping?

Ohh things have changed due to technology. However no products can be produced with there first being labor.

Skynet cannot yet take over.

The materials have to be mined, processed, manufactured, grown, etc and ALL of that still takes labor. Not as much as it used to but labor is still the spark that makes it all happen.

Without labor Apple would have what to sell?

 

[percysunshine]

Labor is Prior to and Independent of Capital

Not completely independent.

First the labor pains start, then the capital investment in an epidural is considered.

 

[SniperFire]

Lets talk about when humans first started growing crops and quit beinf hunter gatherers for the most part.

You Leftists are trying to pretend the relative utility of labor to capital has not changed since the hunter gatherer days.

Technology changed those dynamics forever.

What part of that are you have such difficulty grasping?

Ohh things have changed due to technology. However no products can be produced with there first being labor.

Of course labor still has utility. But it no longer has your grandpappy-sleep-on-the-job-half-his-shift-and-run-the-press-a-couple-hours utility.

Labor is the weakhand now in the production of goods and services the world needs.

The 19th century Lincoln quote you are defending is outdated.


Give up.

 

[The T]

Lets talk about when humans first started growing crops and quit beinf hunter gatherers for the most part.

You Leftists are trying to pretend the relative utility of labor to capital has not changed since the hunter gatherer days.

Technology changed those dynamics forever.

What part of that are you have such difficulty grasping?

Maybe they're upset at stories as this one that deals with labour in China...

The Fascinating Story of Foxconn

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So honest Abe was a liberal after all?

Was there ever any doubt? Please don't confuse him, however, with today's so called liberals, because they have absolutely nothing in common.

 

[uscitizen]

You Leftists are trying to pretend the relative utility of labor to capital has not changed since the hunter gatherer days.

Technology changed those dynamics forever.

What part of that are you have such difficulty grasping?

Ohh things have changed due to technology. However no products can be produced with there first being labor.

Of course labor still has utility. But it no longer has your grandpappy-sleep-on-the-job-half-his-shift-and-run-the-press-a-couple-hours utility.

Labor is the weakhand now in the production of goods and services the world needs.

The 19th century Lincoln quote you are defending is outdated.


Give up.

You have a pretty poor view of labor. Did not your father work for a living? And all your ancestors? Or are you a little spoiled pissant who has never had to work for a living?

 

[uscitizen]

So honest Abe was a liberal after all?

Was there ever any doubt? Please don't confuse him, however, with today's so called liberals, because they have absolutely nothing in common.

He had much in common with this Liberal.
All liberals are not alike. This liberal is actually more fiscal conservative than most "conservatives" on here.

He was actually more of a Federalist Libertarian I suppose.

 

[SniperFire]

Ohh things have changed due to technology. However no products can be produced with there first being labor.

Of course labor still has utility. But it no longer has your grandpappy-sleep-on-the-job-half-his-shift-and-run-the-press-a-couple-hours utility.

Labor is the weakhand now in the production of goods and services the world needs.

The 19th century Lincoln quote you are defending is outdated.


Give up.

You have a pretty poor view of labor. Did not your father work for a living? And all your ancestors? Or are you a little spoiled pissant who has never had to work for a living?

Seems to me you are conceding the point and now want to abandon arguing labor's utility to productivity versus capital investment, and would now just like to obfuscate and try to characterize me as a hater since you have failed to support your argument.


Sound about right?

 

[percysunshine]

My view of labor is that I am lucky my DNA precludes me from participating in it.

 

[uscitizen]

Of course labor still has utility. But it no longer has your grandpappy-sleep-on-the-job-half-his-shift-and-run-the-press-a-couple-hours utility.

Labor is the weakhand now in the production of goods and services the world needs.

The 19th century Lincoln quote you are defending is outdated.


Give up.

You have a pretty poor view of labor. Did not your father work for a living? And all your ancestors? Or are you a little spoiled pissant who has never had to work for a living?

Seems to me you are conceding the point and now want to abandon arguing labor's utility to productivity versus capital investment, and would now just like to obfuscate and try to characterize me as a hater since you have failed to support your argument.


Sound about right?

Yes you are very right but seldom correct.

 

[Dragon]

Seems to me you are conceding the point and now want to abandon arguing labor's utility to productivity versus capital investment

Seems to me you haven't thought through all the implications of this changed reality we have, coupled with attitudes like yours.

It involves lampposts and ropes.

 

[SniperFire]

Seems to me you are conceding the point and now want to abandon arguing labor's utility to productivity versus capital investment

Seems to me you haven't thought through all the implications of this changed reality we have, coupled with attitudes like yours.

It involves lampposts and ropes.

Oh, I have certainly thought about it.

But would you not agree that most of the Leftists on this thread are not ready to admit such 'changed reality,' much less start discussing solutions?

I mean, uscitizen is still arguing from a hunter/gatherer perspective.

 

[The T]

Seems to me you are conceding the point and now want to abandon arguing labor's utility to productivity versus capital investment

Seems to me you haven't thought through all the implications of this changed reality we have, coupled with attitudes like yours.

It involves lampposts and ropes.

Oh, I have certainly thought about it.

But would you not agree that most of the Leftists on this thread are not ready to admit such 'changed reality,' much less start discussing solutions?

I mean, uscitizen is still arguing from a hunter/gatherer perspective.

Perhaps that's where the left would rather have us be?

 

[Dragon]

Oh, I have certainly thought about it.

But would you not agree that most of the Leftists on this thread are not ready to admit such 'changed reality,' much less start discussing solutions?

Yes, I would, and it's not just here. The methods of industrial liberalism worked as long as there was a high demand for labor. Collective bargaining and labor-friendly government kept wages rising along with productivity, and so kept the collectively-produced wealth shared widely. That won't work any longer, which means we need new methods -- because trust me on this, the surrender of most of the people to despair and domination by the privileged few is a non-option.

I started a thread on the subject in the economics section, called "Why Capitalism is Doomed," but predictably enough it turned into a flamefest. Conservatives aren't ready to accept the new reality, either, in many cases. Or at least, not ready to accept the implications.

Capitalism, like any other collective institution, survives on popular tolerance. When it fails to deliver the rising living standards for all that it promises, that tolerance will be withdrawn, and we will have a successor economic system that does. One possibility is to collectivize all of the big corporations and provide everyone with a common ownership share -- make everyone, in effect, a capitalist. If we can produce wealth without labor, why demand that people work for a living? It's obvious we don't need them to do so. But we do need them to buy the products and services on the market.

Another possibility would be to cut everyone back to part-time work, but pay full-time wages. That might be more personally satisfying and easier to agree upon.